#1
Hi folks

I've been playing acoustic for around a year now (ignore my join date - I had a brief flirtation as a teen with the guitar going back several years....it didn't last then, but it's here for good now!!) and have very recently branched out into electric.

I picked up a used Pacifica just last week however have just seen a local advert for a 2010 Les Paul Junior in good condition, with hard case, which seems a decent price (just short of £400) .

At the moment I'd say I'm at the annoying point between beginner and intermediate. I'm not yet experienced enough with playing multiple different electric body shapes, woods, pickup types, neck types, brands etc. to know what I want long term (my aim in a 3-5 years would be to buy something special to keep for life, like I did with my acoustic).

Putting the cost to one side - in my position would you stick with the Pacifica until I'm a better player, or jump in with the Gibson? Part of me thinks it's stupid buying a £400 guitar when I'm still a beginner, and I have a perfectly good £100 guitar, but then I'm also an advocate of buying the best you can afford at any given time. The more you like the guitar, the more you're likely to pick it up and put the hard yards in....right?

I'm assuming that the Gibson will hold it's value reasonably well if and when I come to re-sell it, if I did buy it?

Going to sleep on it anyway but would appreciate your thoughts
#2
It will hold its value pretty well, however not all gibsons are in high demand. Thats why the one you're looking at is reasonable. If it was a LP standard that'd be a different question.

I'd spend the money on an amp IMO, assuming you don't have something nice. The yamaha will give you a lot of great time playing.
Gibson LP Standard T - Epiphone LP Standard (BCS wiring+pots, 57/57+ Gibson) - Fender FSR MIM Telecaster
Blackstar Series one 45 (v30's) - Jetcity JCA50h + 212cab (Eminence) - Orange Crush 35RT
#3
Depends on why you want to change guitars: a little more variety? different sound? different feel? different look? I purchased way more guitars than I need, starting when I was a still pretty much a beginner. I (mostly) don't regret buying any of the guitars I did, but looking back, I might have done things a bit differently if I had it it do over again.

Like pretty much everyone else, I started my learning with lots of open chord strumming and only moved into single note picking and lead playing after about two years of study. Open chord strumming is really better suited to an acoustic guitar, but on electrics, something with single coils like a strat or a tele is OK as well. An electric with humbuckers can serve, but it's a bit of a square peg in a round hole. Tonewise, without developing a pretty light touch, open chord strumming on an electric using an acoustic style gets pretty muddy pretty fast, regardless of guitar. So, assuming that your Pacifica is the strat-type, you probably already have an electric guitar pretty well-suited to this stage of your learning.

On the other hand, if you're already into lead-playing, the Les Paul Junior (or another humbucker guitar) would provide a good contrast in sound to your Pacifica.

Truth be told, I should have bit the bullet early on and put my real money into a good amp right from the beginning, rather than buying more guitars. I went through a succession of slightly better amps, so now I have six in my bedroom. I should have just bought the Fender Deluxe from the get-go. Maybe the Princeton Chorus as well since the stereo chorus is a cool effect and it's pretty nice for a one-trick pony. Depending on what amp you're currently using, you may want to think about going this direction instead of another guitar. While everyone here told me that the amp has as much or more impact on the sound than the guitar, it took a while (and buying five successive amps) before I recognized the truth of the statement.
#4
Thanks guys. Meant to say I have a Yamaha THR10C amp which I couldn't be more pleased with. As a bedroom only player I can't imagine needing anything more than what this can offer.

The direct from USB recording is great as a relative beginner for making clips for sharing for feedback and self assessment etc.

I messed around with it for the first time tonight and was pretty pleased with how it sounded straight odd the bat, considering I've pretty much never used GarageBand in my life (excuse the crap playing haha)

https://soundcloud.com/martinfernott/slow-dancing-in-a-burning-room

As to why I would want to change to the Gibson, not sure I can even answer that. I guess the honest answer is because I saw the advert and thought 'ooh that looks nice' which of course is a terrible reason to buy a guitar!!

I know in my head that the Yammy is a more than capable guitar for someone at my level and yet something is drawing me in....

In terms of what music I like, pretty varied. Big into John Mayer and Bonamassa, also classics like Jimi and SRV. But like plenty of stuff, from Beatles to Killers, Fratellis, Knopfler/Dire Straits, Muse..... all sorts really. I'd say bluesy stuff is definitely a really big part of where I'd like to go with my playing.
#5
See if you can try out the LPJ, and decide then if you really want it.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#6
What appeals to you about the LPJ? Apart from the price? Do you have any heroes that play them or anything? Do you like the sound?
#7
Quote by slapsymcdougal
See if you can try out the LPJ, and decide then if you really want it.


Not an option unfortunately due to location. But seller is very trustworthy. It's also just had a re-cut nut, frets levelled and polished.
#8
Quote by luke.g.henderso
What appeals to you about the LPJ? Apart from the price? Do you have any heroes that play them or anything? Do you like the sound?


On a superficial note I really like the look of it. I know a lot of people scoff at those who consider the aesthetics of a guitar when choosing one but to me the guitar has to look nice and appeal to my tastes to make me want to play it (over another guitar). There are some guitars - no matter how awesome they may be - that I just wouldn't try because I don't like the look.

Other than that....I really can't quantify why it's giving me an itchy trigger finger....something about it just appeals.

I think it's because it feels like it's a luxury ("Wow, I have a Gibson Les Paul!") without being prohibitively expensive. It also feels like at this point in time it's a little bit 'above me' but that in a couple of years of dedicated practice, I'd 'grow into it'. That appeals to me somehow.

Like I said ... in my head I know the Pacifica is more than adequate. But in my heart, 'Gibson Les Paul' sounds and feels more sexy than 'Yamaha Pacifica'.

In terms of the tonal differences....I'm just not at the level yet that can appreciate and know the differences that come with different bodies, pickup types etc. I would have thought that using a modelling amp like the THR, that I'd be able to get a fairly diverse range of tones out of it that would suit most things in my favoured genres (blues, light rock/pop-rock, rhythm and lead).

I'm not one for insane amounts of gain and distortion, my favourite guitar sounds ever are basically every sound Mayer makes on his 'Where The Light Is' DVD. I think most or all of that was with a Strat.

But he's a massive pedal whore so even that would be far from the standard tone of the Strat I'm sure!

TLDR - I dont know why I want it. It just feels in my head like it would be a step up from the Yammy but please tell me if I'm wrong!!
#9
Quote by BRISTOL86
On a superficial note I really like the look of it. I know a lot of people scoff at those who consider the aesthetics of a guitar when choosing one but to me the guitar has to look nice and appeal to my tastes to make me want to play it (over another guitar). There are some guitars - no matter how awesome they may be - that I just wouldn't try because I don't like the look.

Other than that....I really can't quantify why it's giving me an itchy trigger finger....something about it just appeals.


That's a perfectly valid reason to buy a guitar, in my book anyway :-) I once fell in love with a guitar I saw reviewed in a magazine, and when I saw a pretty much identical one in my local store a few years later, I had to have it. If I could only keep one guitar, it would be that one.
If you can afford it, go for it. A used guitar is likely to devalue less anyway if you want to sell it later, and it should give you and interesting alternative.

Be aware that you can get a Gibson Les Paul Studio new for a couple of hundred quid more, such as:

https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/LPSTSFCH1/solid-body-electric-guitars/gibson-2016-les-paul-studio-faded-traditional-spec-in-fireburst

Especially now the 2017 line has been launched, the 2016s and older should be reduced.

You might find a second-hand or ex-display Les Paul for a similar price to the Junior, so it's worth considering.
http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_guitars_detail.asp?stock=PX161113304036003 maybe?
#10
Thanks Luke. I'm already massively pushing my luck budget wise so the studio is out of the question.

That LPJ looks mightily tempting though!!

Though I really do love the simple and refined look of the junior. Argh, this is hard!!
Last edited by BRISTOL86 at Nov 17, 2016,
#11
You might be able to find a used Studio.
But a Junior is a different beast, I am assuming it's a double-cutaway, single P90 guitar. They're generally associated with a different kind of sound to an LP with humbuckers.

What's your nearest big guitar shop?
#12
The junior is a single cut with a single P90 identical to the one shown here apart from colour

http://magazine.dv247.com/2012/01/11/gibson-les-paul-junior-review/

Whixh would you recommend for fairly clean bluesy playing a la Mayer, Hendrix, SRV type sound? Bearing in mind whatever it is will go through a modelling amp with a large degree of tone shaping available on the amp. I'm guessing the junior would actually be a better fit for me tonally for the sort of things I'm playing?

PMT is my local large store but I always feel hugely intimidated in there for some reason...like I'm not good enough to be shopping for a £400-£500 guitar haha.
Last edited by BRISTOL86 at Nov 17, 2016,
#13
Mayer, Hendrix and SRV all scream Strat to me. I'd argue the Pacifica on the single coils will do a better job at that sound than a Les Paul Junior would. However, it's not because you like that style of playing that you have to mimic the sound.

I do think the Les Paul Junior is a very specific guitar that you have to want to really get the most out of. It's not like a regular Les Paul that will do about anything you want. It has a distinct tone that you have to like. Also, while it would be a step up from the Pacifica in general, the Juniors aren't the best quality Gibsons you'll find. They can leave a lot to be desired imo.
#14
Thanks to all for the input.

I've decided to 'pass GAS' and knuckle down with the Yammy for the time being and focus on improving my skill rather than chasing the next bit of gear.

It's my birthday in 6 months, perhaps by then I'll have zoned in on what I really want, rather than impulse buying.
#15
Quote by BRISTOL86


As to why I would want to change to the Gibson, not sure I can even answer that. I guess the honest answer is because I saw the advert and thought 'ooh that looks nice' which of course is a terrible reason to buy a guitar!!


There's your answer. If the question is "should I buy a _________ guitar", then the honest answer is "probably not."

If the truth is that you've just got a bug up your ass to buy another guitar, then don't bother asking the question in a forum when you've already made up your mind!
#16
The thing with single pickup guitars also is that they are quite limited and you need to be prepared to use the volume and tone knobs a fair bit to refine your tone.I'd say not ideal for a first guitar.I reckon for what you want the Yamaha would be better for now.Imo.
2016 Gibson Les Paul Traditional T in Light Burst
'77 Hardtail Strat
Epiphone Sheraton MIK Duncan '59's
MIJ 84/85 Tele
MIM Std Tele
Fender Blues Jnr
Digitech Screamin' Blues
#17
I think it's important to go out and actually play some guitars before you decide as well. I mean, you can love the look of a Les Paul Standard and play one and notice it isn't for you at all, for instance. I for instance really dig the clean Strat sounds, but I don't like playing Strats at all. They feel very off to me.
#18
bear in mind you can often get lower-end gibsons new for that kind of money.

i guess it depends on how high end the junior was in 2010 (i can't remember ).
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#19
Thanks guys but I made the decision to stick with what I have until I know what I really want

More practice, less gear hunting
#20
talk like that can get you banned around here
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#21
BRISTOL86

Smart move. I was strongly tempted to contribute to this thread, but decided that the arguments for and against were too complicated. FWIW, my favourite electric guitar design overall is the LP Jr, but I would go for the Special because I mostly use the neck pickup. - Mine is a '95 with P100s.
#22
Quote by Dave_Mc
bear in mind you can often get lower-end gibsons new for that kind of money.

i guess it depends on how high end the junior was in 2010 (i can't remember ).


About the same compared to now new, apart from that they weren't as prominent on the market used as they are now (at least where I live).

I think you're making the right decision here. Hunting for gear isn't a bad thing, it can help you realise what you like and what you don't. You can have an idea in your head that you like certain things and then get it to use often and notice you don't like it as much as you thought you would.
#23
Quote by BRISTOL86
Thanks to all for the input.

I've decided to 'pass GAS' and knuckle down with the Yammy for the time being and focus on improving my skill rather than chasing the next bit of gear.

It's my birthday in 6 months, perhaps by then I'll have zoned in on what I really want, rather than impulse buying.
FWIW, you should definitely be looking around other brands. Epiphone are offering quality instruments at a little above what was being asked for the LPJ, so are PRS in the SE line(and they have a 'new for 2017 spec, which means some current models may get cheaper).

One thing to definitely consider - I'd tried out some of the new-ish Yamaha Revstar range, and the ones I got my hands on were pretty decent quality at the price point you're looking at.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#24
Quote by BRISTOL86


Whixh would you recommend for fairly clean bluesy playing a la Mayer, Hendrix, SRV type sound?

PMT is my local large store but I always feel hugely intimidated in there for some reason...like I'm not good enough to be shopping for a £400-£500 guitar haha.


Those guys are associated with Strats (although I think Mayer has jumped to PRS now), so to be honest the Pacifica would be a lot closer.

Which PMT? I'm half way between the Cambridge and Southend stores.
#25
Quote by luke.g.henderso
Those guys are associated with Strats (although I think Mayer has jumped to PRS now), so to be honest the Pacifica would be a lot closer.

Which PMT? I'm half way between the Cambridge and Southend stores.


Yeah Mayer does play PRS now (they are actually some of my favourite looking guitars but that's a thread for another day!)

I live on the outskirts of Bristol and there's one in the city centre, I only work a couple of miles from it.
#27
Quote by luke.g.henderso
BRISTOL86 Maybe forget the Les Paul for now and pick up a PRS later on? ;-)


Haha maybe! I'm just planning on working as hard as possible to move up to the next level with my playing between now and my birthday in six months.

Then we'll see
#28
BRISTOL86 A brand new PRS can be had for about £400 at the moment, so I'm sure you can pick up something decent next year :-)
#29
Quote by luke.g.henderso
BRISTOL86 A brand new PRS can be had for about £400 at the moment, so I'm sure you can pick up something decent next year :-)


Ha it's a non stop cycle isn't it.

You think...ooh £400, but if I went just a little more I could get a used _______ , but then if I just went a little more......
#30
Quote by BRISTOL86
Ha it's a non stop cycle isn't it.

You think...ooh £400, but if I went just a little more I could get a used _______ , but then if I just went a little more......
Yes, it is.

That's why I have a brand new PRS Custom 24 sitting about 3 yards from me right now, and won't be going on holiday next year.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#31
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Yes, it is.

That's why I have a brand new PRS Custom 24 sitting about 3 yards from me right now, and won't be going on holiday next year.


Thankfully my holiday is already booked and paid for lol
#32
BRISTOL86..I used that
Quote by BRISTOL86
Ha it's a non stop cycle isn't it.

You think...ooh £400, but if I went just a little more I could get a used _______ , but then if I just went a little more......
I used that logic when buying a car once...went home with a new BMW..
play well

wolf
#33
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Yes, it is.

That's why I have a brand new PRS Custom 24 sitting about 3 yards from me right now, and won't be going on holiday next year.


Don't forget the other version- "A used [guitar] in great condition for half the price of a new one! I can't pass that up!"