Page 1 of 2
#1
Or "non-offending pedophiles."

Just found out this was a thing. Sauce.

They believe pedophilia is a sexual orientation - although one unethical to act on.
They have a code not to act on their repulsive inclinations.
They don't use child pornography.
They do not seek sexual contact with minors.
They "out" themselves in public.
They have an online forum (like a pedo pit) where they offer each other support in well, behaving themselves.

What are your thoughts on these people and their ethics?

Would you let these people babysit or come to your house, live next door, do they deserve to breathe the same air that you, I and Hulk Hogan breathe etc.?
Last edited by Rebel Scum at Nov 22, 2016,
#2
Of course I wouldn't let them babysit lol. This is the righ thing though. Seeking help and acknowledging its malice is a good step.
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the thirty-seventh floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut.



Quote by matt bickerton
Doesn't at all surprise me why so many people here tend to think you're a douche
#3
Wouldn't let them babysit, but yeah, good on them for making sure they cause no harm to others.
Yes I am falling
How much longer
Till I hit the ground?
#4
I think that peadophilia is a phenomenon that needs to be understood more fully and studied so that there can be an effective "treatment" for it or at least good coping mechanisms so that people don't commit crimes. It will never be an accepted sexual orientation because minors cannot ever give consent, but there should definitely be support networks and groups for benign peadophiles so that they can live normal lives and have appropriate support. Pushing it underground is only going to cause more people into committing crime so it should definitely be understood. I can imagine being interested in children but being terrified of your own feelings and knowing they are "wrong" is a very challenging experience.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#5
I find it interesting they believe its a sexual orientation. Never heard anyone really refer to it in that way. Mental illness yes, but not sexual orientation. Kinda creepy.
#6
^ Agree with Lyle. From my professional observations, there needs to be a lot of help for the ones out there that accept that it's who they are and its wrong, but unfortunately, there is very little that exists to help paedophiles before they offend.

I don't mean that in the context of "all paedophiles will offend", but as in, recognising it as a sexuality and seeking out help before they act on their urges.

Quote by Rebel Scum
I find it interesting they believe its a sexual orientation. Never heard anyone really refer to it in that way. Mental illness yes, but not sexual orientation. Kinda creepy.

How is it not tho?
Yes I am falling
How much longer
Till I hit the ground?
#7
Louis CK of all people kinda got me onto this type of thinking



@5:31. maybe more like 6:45 if you're impatient

It's probably the best understanding of pedophilia yet. It's like, some people prefer em older, some younger. Sometimes sexual orientations lay outside of what is ethical. Makes sense to me
Last edited by whywefight at Nov 22, 2016,
#8
Quote by i_lovemetallica

How is it not tho?


Its not something I've really given any thought to.
#9
Pretty similar to Zoophilia really.

In terms of referring to it as an unethical sexuality.
Yes I am falling
How much longer
Till I hit the ground?
#10
Quote by i_lovemetallica
Pretty similar to Zoophilia really.

In terms of referring to it as an unethical sexuality.

Yea, I don't think we should be viewing paedos the way poofs and lezzas were viewed 100 years ago. I don't really know if it can be 'cured', but if they are willing to attempt to manage their behaviour and remain within the law, they should get help to do that, because waiting for them to go Ian Watkins and then jailing them seems inadequate.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#12
Quote by Rebel Scum
I find it interesting they believe its a sexual orientation. Never heard anyone really refer to it in that way. Mental illness yes, but not sexual orientation. Kinda creepy.


homosexuality used to be a "mental illness" so i think we should be very careful about what we apply the classifier "mental illness" to.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#13
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Yea, I don't think we should be viewing paedos the way poofs and lezzas were viewed 100 years ago. I don't really know if it can be 'cured', but if they are willing to attempt to manage their behaviour and remain within the law, they should get help to do that, because waiting for them to go Ian Watkins and then jailing them seems inadequate.


The only obstacle to paedophilia (and bestiality) being considered valid sexual orientation is the mechanism of consent. I don't think age of consent should really be lowered any more, (it should be fluid with underaged people who are of a similar age though), and children will never be able to consent especially to an adult, so it's never going to become a sexual orientation. I do think it should be discussed and understood and people should be helped out so that vile cases like Watkins' don't have to happen. Now I think he was a piece of shit anyway and is definitely not one a benign peadophile and would've committed sexual crimes anyway, but just because he exists doesn't mean we don't have to try to stop helping others.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#14
I've thought this for ages - how is paedophilia really that different from any other sexual preference? You can't help what you're attracted to, you have no control over it. MILFS, black girls, redheads, blondes, homosexuality etc - none of us choose these attractions. Surely it's essentially just another niche?

The unfortunate thing is that yes that particular attraction is unethical and should never be acted upon.

Those that have these attractions but don't act on them shouldn't be villified. What else are they supposed to do? In my opinion to describe it as a mental illness is almost as backwards as when people used to think homosexuality was a mental illness.
Last edited by matt bickerton at Nov 22, 2016,
#15
so pretty much the anime thread?

mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#16
Quote by EndTheRapture51
homosexuality used to be a "mental illness" so i think we should be very careful about what we apply the classifier "mental illness" to.
This is related to what I mean. I don't know if you can view paedophilia as part of the same 'spectrum' of sexuality as the normal set of classifiers(which may be rather broad stroke definitions rather than absolute boundaries), and as such, it may not be possible or ethical to alter that aspect of someone's personality.

But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't get support to live as best as they can within our society. It's just going to be difficult because of News International and the Daily Mail making sure that everyone is continually told that paedophiles are evil, and should be chemically and physically castrated, burned and buried alive, not necessarily in that order. It leads to people being closeted, which has been shown to raise the risk of mental health problems and suicide(the aforementioned press organisations regard the latter as the problem self-regulating, I'm sure).

Essentially, the stigma attached to all paedophiles as a result of widely and luridly publicised criminal activities probably discourages non-active paedophiles seeking support, because it's worse than being 'outed' as a homosexual was.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#17
Quote by jakesmellspoo
so pretty much the anime thread?

Pretty sure there's only one of them in the AT. Though maybe two depending on how you define pedophilia.
Quote by Hal-Sephira

We all have the rights to be mad

So does you
#18
Quote by slapsymcdougal


Essentially, the stigma attached to all paedophiles as a result of widely and luridly publicised criminal activities probably discourages non-active paedophiles seeking support, because it's worse than being 'outed' as a homosexual was.


Yeah pretty great summary of the matter.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#19
I respect those who acknowledge their condition, know that it's unethical and are actively doing something about it. I have sympathy because many of those people who are actively doing something about it just want to be functioning members of society. But there's such little in the way of support. Taxpayers are very unsympathetic of people with the condition and it's impractical to distribute investment only towards those who actually want the help. How you even assess if a pedophile wants help is a can of worms all on its own.
Quote by Axelfox
Please understand how little we as a community care
#20
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
I respect those who acknowledge their condition, know that it's unethical and are actively doing something about it. I have sympathy because many of those people who are actively doing something about it just want to be functioning members of society. But there's such little in the way of support. Taxpayers are very unsympathetic of people with the condition and it's impractical to distribute investment only towards those who actually want the help. How you even assess if a pedophile wants help is a can of worms all on its own.


Whether they want help or not they should be given it, because otherwise they do present a danger to children, and their families.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#21
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Whether they want help or not they should be given it, because otherwise they do present a danger to children, and their families.


I don't agree with this at all. You being attracted to women doesn't make you a danger to women everywhere.
Quote by Hal-Sephira

We all have the rights to be mad

So does you
#22
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Whether they want help or not they should be given it, because otherwise they do present a danger to children, and their families.

It's wasteful on resources to help people who don't want it.

But actually giving that person help is pretty much the only way you can know.

Where does one draw the line between someone wanting help to not wanting help?
Quote by Axelfox
Please understand how little we as a community care
#24
Quote by Victory2134
I don't agree with this at all. You being attracted to women doesn't make you a danger to women everywhere.


Good point

I don't have a good rebuttal apart from the fact that a man or womans attraction to another man or woman can be satiated with consensual sex, ethical pornography, or even legal and ethical prostitution.

A peadophile can never legally fulfill that need

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#25
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
It's wasteful on resources to help people who don't want it.

But actually giving that person help is pretty much the only way you can know.

Where does one draw the line between someone wanting help to not wanting help?


Would you argue it's also wasteful to treat terminal cancer patients? Just give them a bullet in the back of the head as soon as its terminal. It's wasteful to spend resources making their last years or months comfortable, or even trying to treat something like that.

Often people don't think they need help when actually they do need help - see depression, anxiety, alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction etc. You owe a duty of care to people even if they dont think they want help.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#26
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Would you argue it's also wasteful to treat terminal cancer patients? Just give them a bullet in the back of the head as soon as its terminal. It's wasteful to spend resources making their last years or months comfortable, or even trying to treat something like that.

Often people don't think they need help when actually they do need help - see depression, anxiety, alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction etc. You owe a duty of care to people even if they dont think they want help.


I think everyone should have a choice in whether or not they want to be treated for a disease as long as it's not something that can spread. If a terminally ill patient wants to stop receiving treatment then that should be up to them.

Quote by EndTheRapture51
Good point

I don't have a good rebuttal apart from the fact that a man or womans attraction to another man or woman can be satiated with consensual sex, ethical pornography, or even legal and ethical prostitution.

A peadophile can never legally fulfill that need


That's not entirely true either. Sex with an adult isn't some gross disgusting thing that will never get a pedophile off, it's just not ideal. As for pornography there's been a lot of excitement around ageplay these past 5 years or so and you can find a lot of stuff that panders to pedophile like desires. Written works are also legally allowed. At least they are here in the states. In Japan you can find a lot of drawn stuff that is most definitely legal there but absolutely not legal in the UK.

Think of it like this, in an ideal world you'd want to have sex with the most super fit super sexy woman in the world but it's probably not going to happen. I don't see Mila Kunis and then think that I'll never be able to get release from sex again because it isn't with her. Even though I would really like to bang her, I can live without fulfilling that desire. The people who can't have serious mental problems.
Quote by Hal-Sephira

We all have the rights to be mad

So does you
#27
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Would you argue it's also wasteful to treat terminal cancer patients? Just give them a bullet in the back of the head as soon as its terminal. It's wasteful to spend resources making their last years or months comfortable, or even trying to treat something like that.

Nice strawman. They're two different ethical issues. One concerns a patient's comfort and the other concerns a person's consent.

If a patient for some reason didn't want any further treatment for their terminal cancer even if they understand that it means they'll die in agony, then they shouldn't be treated. If that's what they want, then that wish should be carried out.
Often people don't think they need help when actually they do need help - see depression, anxiety, alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction etc. You owe a duty of care to people even if they dont think they want help.

To some extent that is true, but its very wasteful and overly idealistic to give help to someone who consistently refuses help. There comes a point where trying to help someone who doesn't want help becomes a waste of time and drains away resources from those who are taking real active steps towards controlling their sexuality.

Your system would work perfectly if we had infinite resources, but there is no such thing.
Quote by Axelfox
Please understand how little we as a community care
#28
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Nice strawman. They're two different ethical issues. One concerns a patient's comfort and the other concerns a person's consent.

If a patient for some reason didn't want any further treatment for their terminal cancer even if they understand that it means they'll die in agony, then they shouldn't be treated. If that's what they want, then that wish should be carried out.

To some extent that is true, but its very wasteful and overly idealistic to give help to someone who consistently refuses help. There comes a point where trying to help someone who doesn't want help becomes a waste of time and drains away resources from those who are taking real active steps towards controlling their sexuality.

Your system would work perfectly if we had infinite resources, but there is no such thing.


So what's your solution in this case?

Do we lock up peadophiles who refuse help before they commit a crime? Do we wait and let them commit the crime, letting a child come to harm?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#29
Quote by EndTheRapture51
So what's your solution in this case?

Do we lock up peadophiles who refuse help before they commit a crime? Do we wait and let them commit the crime, letting a child come to harm?
I suppose the problem is - before they've committed a crime, how do we know they're a paedophile?

The only ways we'd know is if they obviously either have sex with a child, or alternatively look at indecent images of children. Obviously the latter perhaps isn't quite as severe, but it's still a crime as they're knowingly looking at children who are being forced to do things they don't want to.

Quote by Victory2134
Think of it like this, in an ideal world you'd want to have sex with the most super fit super sexy woman in the world but it's probably not going to happen. I don't see Mila Kunis and then think that I'll never be able to get release from sex again because it isn't with her. Even though I would really like to bang her, I can live without fulfilling that desire. The people who can't have serious mental problems.
Yeah I really agree with this. Like even more directly and relevantly focusing on specific age ranges and not just individuals, I'd say I'm definitely attracted to MILFs. That being said, I'm unlikely to ever actually sleep with one, but I simultaneously wouldn't consider myself unfulfilled if I don't. There's no reason why a 'mentally healthy' paedophile wouldn't be the same way.
Last edited by matt bickerton at Nov 22, 2016,
#30
Quote by EndTheRapture51
So what's your solution in this case?

Do we lock up peadophiles who refuse help before they commit a crime? Do we wait and let them commit the crime, letting a child come to harm?


Are you suggesting that we should be prosecuting people and forcing them to adhere to a certain regimen for thought crimes?
Quote by Hal-Sephira

We all have the rights to be mad

So does you
#31
That's why an open and benevolent approach to peadophiles must be taken - so that they can get help before they commit a crim and go down that hole.

CP is no victimless crime too.

Quote by Victory2134
Are you suggesting that we should be prosecuting people and forcing them to adhere to a certain regimen for thought crimes?


Not at all.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#32
Quote by EndTheRapture51
That's why an open and benevolent approach to peadophiles must be taken - so that they can get help before they commit a crim and go down that hole.
Yeah, that's definitely the ideal scenario.

Sadly society hasn't even fully accepted homosexuality yet. I really can't imagine it being open to paedophiles in our lifetime.
#33
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Not at all.


It sure sounds like it.
Quote by Hal-Sephira

We all have the rights to be mad

So does you
#34
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Not at all.

Explain how it doesn't.
Quote by Axelfox
Please understand how little we as a community care
#35
Quote by Victory2134
It sure sounds like it.


Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Explain how it doesn't.


I'm just asking questions.

Not sharing my viewpoint.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#36
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Not sharing my viewpoint.

You can't just say that and then not tell.
Quote by Axelfox
Please understand how little we as a community care
#37
I don't particularly want to share my viewpoint with you.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#39
Hey! There's already an anime thread!
waka waka
#40
Quote by i_lovemetallica
Wouldn't let them babysit, but yeah, good on them for making sure they cause no harm to others.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I think that peadophilia is a phenomenon that needs to be understood more fully and studied so that there can be an effective "treatment" for it or at least good coping mechanisms so that people don't commit crimes. It will never be an accepted sexual orientation because minors cannot ever give consent, but there should definitely be support networks and groups for benign peadophiles so that they can live normal lives and have appropriate support. Pushing it underground is only going to cause more people into committing crime so it should definitely be understood. I can imagine being interested in children but being terrified of your own feelings and knowing they are "wrong" is a very challenging experience.


I agree. While it's pretty much agreed it's sick, being able to stop an incident from happening in the first place would be more beneficial because a kid isn't getting molested and we can have someone not in jail who might otherwise contribute to society. You molest a kid, enjoy prison.
Guitars:
Squire Bullet Strat, Schecter Damien 6, Washburn WG-587 & RX10
Amp/Effects:
Peavy Vypyr 30, ISP Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.
Page 1 of 2