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#1
I've had my MH50 over a year now, aside from the initial setup, there's not been any changes to my guitar, but one problem that's been plaguing me this whole time is that my FloydRose Special makes my strings go out of tune after even the slightest of bends (up/down), and it's rather annoying because whats the point of having a floyd rose if it doesn't work correctly?

I emailed ESP a while ago, they said it could be a setup issue, and would recommend I go to a trusted guitar shop to fix it

So I contacted a local GuitarCenter, they said they could re-set it up for "$60 - $70", is that a reasonable price? Or should I go to another shop?
Because I don't want to shell out nearly $100 and still have the problem, just want to pay once have it fixed and thats all.

Would a simple re-setup fix it? I'm not changing the tuning, I just want that pesky bridge problem fixed so I can actually use it like a floyd rose and not like a fixed bridge

Thanks
#2
well it depends on where you are as prices vary. my tech charges around $60 for his version of a basic setup with Floyd rose equipped guitars. GC isn't the place to go as they tend to charge more than most local tech and usually aren't as good (or are just sending it to a local tech and charging you extra). provided the problem isn't something out of the ordinary it shouldn't cost much more than $60 (you supply new strings). this would be for a complete setup not to just tinker with the Floyd.
#3
DO NOT LET GUITARD CENTER MESS WITH YOUR GUITAR!
There's so many reasons this could be happening.
Are your strings old? Are they properly broken in?
How are your springs set up? I get best results with "V" pattern.
Did you buy guitar new? Could be worn springs.
Do you go Vai on your tremolo?
Floyd specials aren't the same as OFR. Could possibly be bad edges.
Bridge posts get out-of-round. You could try a double locking post, if available. I wrap plumbers tape around bridge posts to keep non lockers from wobbling.
#4
Oh, and I pay my guys at Capitol Guitar $50 for a setup, not including strings.
Look for a privately owned non-franchise store.
#5
Quote by Diatribes
I wrap plumbers tape around bridge posts to keep non lockers from wobbling.


You mean teflon tape? Cause we plumbers use that as a thread lubricant, not a sealant. Pipe threads being inclined does the sealing. A bolt thread (Which is what is on a... bolt.) doesn't seal, even with teflon. If anything you are increasing the potential for stripping these small threads clean off your screw or out of the female end (Which is so much worse, omg) because all you are doing is increasing the diameter of the screw and not its female receptacle. If you have issues with these threads, I would suggest a very conservative amount of locktite, or similar product. And even then, that comes from a trade background, not a guitar one. Not sure if I'd want to do anything like that to a guitar, but I would be very cautious about using teflon tape. Plus, teflon tape looks like shit.
#6
Quote by Diatribes
DO NOT LET GUITARD CENTER MESS WITH YOUR GUITAR!
There's so many reasons this could be happening.
Are your strings old? Are they properly broken in?
How are your springs set up? I get best results with "V" pattern.
Did you buy guitar new? Could be worn springs.
Do you go Vai on your tremolo?
Floyd specials aren't the same as OFR. Could possibly be bad edges.
Bridge posts get out-of-round. You could try a double locking post, if available. I wrap plumbers tape around bridge posts to keep non lockers from wobbling.


Even with new strings (set up in drop C, D'addario 11-49), it goes out of tune after using. I've always been using those, never changed from that exact kind
Popping open the back cover, it looks like there's 3 springs, set in a /I\ setup (top of diagram = the thing with the claws, bottom of diagram = the block that is connected to the bridge)

Going vai? not sure what that means

Should I just have a small (non-GC) shop take it apart to see whats wrong?
#7
Quote by Parac
Even with new strings (set up in drop C, D'addario 11-49), it goes out of tune after using. I've always been using those, never changed from that exact kind
Popping open the back cover, it looks like there's 3 springs, set in a /I\ setup (top of diagram = the thing with the claws, bottom of diagram = the block that is connected to the bridge)

Going vai? not sure what that means

yes take it to a shop. see if you can talk to other local guitar players and get a recommendation as to where. going vai just means crazy use of the trem

Should I just have a small (non-GC) shop take it apart to see whats wrong?
#8
Quote by SovietStar
You mean teflon tape? Cause we plumbers use that as a thread lubricant, not a sealant. Pipe threads being inclined does the sealing. A bolt thread (Which is what is on a... bolt.) doesn't seal, even with teflon. If anything you are increasing the potential for stripping these small threads clean off your screw or out of the female end (Which is so much worse, omg) because all you are doing is increasing the diameter of the screw and not its female receptacle. If you have issues with these threads, I would suggest a very conservative amount of locktite, or similar product. And even then, that comes from a trade background, not a guitar one. Not sure if I'd want to do anything like that to a guitar, but I would be very cautious about using teflon tape. Plus, teflon tape looks like shit.

Pardon my lack of correct terminology.
Teflon tape, yes.
And using a tiny bit of it, to snug a bolt in a bridge is a common "quick fix".
I did not invent this. But I've used it, quite effectively.
For 20+ years on guitars. Without I'll-effect.
If the female receptacle is already out of round, the damage is already done.
Just my $.02. Take with a grain of salt.
Ultimately if you're unsure or uneasy doing it yourself, best course of action is taking your guitar to an experienced luthier.
#9
As the others stated GC shouldn't be where you take your guitars for repair or set up. And generally if you have a GC in your area you'll also have other reputable luthiers and smaller shops that would be preferred in this case, The cost of setup is pretty universal per the area you live in, So GC will charge as much as the next guy even if not as capable, Remember the so called tech at GC makes $11 dollars an hour and has a quota to meet. The private guy gets paid by the job, Private guy is making $65 per hour or so and the GC guy is expected to do 3 per hour, Think about it,
#10
Quote by SovietStar
, I would suggest a very conservative amount of locktite, or similar product.

Better get that right the first time. Adjusting bridge height may end up problematic.
you know what they say "the dumber the plumber the bigger the bummer!"
#11
Quote by Parac
Even with new strings (set up in drop C, D'addario 11-49), it goes out of tune after using. I've always been using those, never changed from that exact kind
Popping open the back cover, it looks like there's 3 springs, set in a /I\ setup (top of diagram = the thing with the claws, bottom of diagram = the block that is connected to the bridge)

Going vai? not sure what that means

Should I just have a small (non-GC) shop take it apart to see whats wrong?

Vai reference was in regard to working that trem bar with your hands like a junky missing a fix.
Your springs sound like they are in correct form, in my opinion.
You could also try shaving a small amount of graphite from a pencil into some Vaseline, then work that into the knife edge of your pivot point, for lube.
Best bet may be to have a luthier look at it.
#12
Quote by nastytroll
As the others stated GC shouldn't be where you take your guitars for repair or set up. And generally if you have a GC in your area you'll also have other reputable luthiers and smaller shops that would be preferred in this case, The cost of setup is pretty universal per the area you live in, So GC will charge as much as the next guy even if not as capable, Remember the so called tech at GC makes $11 dollars an hour and has a quota to meet. The private guy gets paid by the job, Private guy is making $65 per hour or so and the GC guy is expected to do 3 per hour, Think about it,

Words of wisdom.
Very un-troll like ?
#14
Quote by Diatribes
Pardon my lack of correct terminology.
Teflon tape, yes.
And using a tiny bit of it, to snug a bolt in a bridge is a common "quick fix".
I did not invent this. But I've used it, quite effectively.
For 20+ years on guitars. Without I'll-effect.
If the female receptacle is already out of round, the damage is already done.
Just my $.02. Take with a grain of salt.
Ultimately if you're unsure or uneasy doing it yourself, best course of action is taking your guitar to an experienced luthier.


I would certainly defer to your guitar knowledge. Teflon tape out of place just sets off my plumbing OCD, but that's my issue, not yours, so I appologize if I came off rude.

Quote by Diatribes
Better get that right the first time. Adjusting bridge height may end up problematic.
you know what they say "the dumber the plumber the bigger the bummer!"


I had never heard that one. Mostly we say stuff like 'This wont be cheap." or "Yup, that's a tampon."

And, to beat a dead horse, soft set locktite is a thing, plus it is a sealant versus lubricant, and it doesn't, y'know, weld metal together with unicorn farts.
#15
Quote by Diatribes
Better get that right the first time. Adjusting bridge height may end up problematic.
you know what they say "the dumber the plumber the bigger the bummer!"

This was meant to be facetious, not slander.
I've been in the trades 26 years, and have always got a kick when opportunity arises to use that little phrase. ✌?
#16
SovietStar
I am not nearly as versed as most on here.
And yea I get that teflon tape seems kind of hack. I thought so too, until I tried it.
I've only used maybe two wraps at most. It doesn't set the bridge post solid, but it seems to help a little bit, and helps keep said post from turning. At the end of the day it is somewhat hack. Fresh inserts and/or double locking post mod is the correct way to fix this.
#17
Quote by SovietStar

I had never heard that one. Mostly we say stuff like 'This wont be cheap." or "Yup, that's a tampon."

And, to beat a dead horse, soft set locktite is a thing, plus it is a sealant versus lubricant, and it doesn't, y'know, weld metal together with unicorn farts.

There's much here worthy of a sig quote.
Cracked me up man!
#18
I don't want to be "that guy" but to me it seems that it may have something to do with the quality of your Floyd Rose, maybe saddles got wear, or the block beneath the bridge may have some damage, FR Specials don't tend to have very nice reviews from what I've read... anyways, I would advice you to take it to a tech, he may give you some possible answers from actually seeing the guitar and not from descriptions in this forum
My gear:
-LTD EC401VF DMZ LD
-Ibanez RG8
Charvel Desolation DX-1 FR
Epiphone G400 PRO
-Yamaha C40M
#19
Quote by Diatribes
Words of wisdom.
Very un-troll like ?


Actually I use another handle on other sites, Nasty Troll of Infinite Wisdom, Ironic huh? And yes I try and give good advice, Been building and playing for a long time , But then again I've also been known to be quite trollish in certain stupid question circumstances, Usually followed with ( Note The Handle)
#20
Quote by RiksRiks
I don't want to be "that guy" but to me it seems that it may have something to do with the quality of your Floyd Rose, maybe saddles got wear, or the block beneath the bridge may have some damage, FR Specials don't tend to have very nice reviews from what I've read... anyways, I would advice you to take it to a tech, he may give you some possible answers from actually seeing the guitar and not from descriptions in this forum


The MH 50 would have been a Licensed FR if not mistaken, In which case the first thing we look at is the Knife Edges and ask the customer if he'd like to repair the one he has or just upgrade it to a Special, As I doubt he would want to upgrade to an Original that costs as much as his guitar did when he bought it new,
Last edited by nastytroll at Nov 22, 2016,
#21
Quote by nastytroll
Actually I use another handle on other sites, Nasty Troll of Infinite Wisdom, Ironic huh? And yes I try and give good advice, Been building and playing for a long time , But then again I've also been known to be quite trollish in certain stupid question circumstances, Usually followed with ( Note The Handle)

Ha. Nice. I also get a little bit forceful in what some may consider a verbal attack, at times. I also follow up with (note the handle)
#22
Quote by nastytroll
The MH 50 would have been a Licensed FR if not mistaken, In which case the first thing we look at is the Knife Edges and ask the customer if he'd like to repair the one he has or just upgrade it to a Special, As I doubt he would want to upgrade to an Original that costs as much as his guitar did when he bought it new,


The ESP website: http://www.espguitars.com/products/9740-mh-50-blk
says it's a FR Special, I'm not sure how to know if its a licensed or not

this guitar is only a year old (from purchase date), I havent used it very much (due to the obvious going-out-of-tune issue)
#23
Try some graphite lube on knife edges. Maybe it will help. Maybe not. It's easy though.
#24
Quote by Parac
The ESP website: http://www.espguitars.com/products/9740-mh-50-blk
says it's a FR Special, I'm not sure how to know if its a licensed or not

this guitar is only a year old (from purchase date), I havent used it very much (due to the obvious going-out-of-tune issue)


Yea Manufactures can be a bit vague, Special? Sure why not? Licensed? anyone who paid FR for a License can make them, Special means made in Asia still owned by FR, Original? well that's a different story, Floyds original design was built by Schaller Germany, it wasn't until he made enough money was he able to open a plant in the USA, So what's a real original? Personally I don't have a lot of guitars with floating bridges, but I'll take a German Schaller over a US FR any day, And believe it or not Schaller still makes bridges for FR, Just be prepared to unass your wallet for one, Funny thing is if you don't have a FR name on it then some kid wont buy it, Put a Schaller name on it, Yea good luck with that, But then again how many pros are out there looking for $300 dollar guitars? Think about it
Last edited by nastytroll at Nov 23, 2016,
#25
Quote by nastytroll
Yea Manufactures can be a bit vague, Special? Sure why not? Licensed? anyone who paid FR for a License can make them, Special means made in Asia still owned by FR, Original? well that's a different story, Floyds original design was built by Schaller Germany, it wasn't until he made enough money was he able to open a plant in the USA, So what's a real original? Personally I don't have a lot of guitars with floating bridges, but I'll take a German Schaller over a US FR any day, And believe it or not Schaller still makes bridges for FR, Just be prepared to unass your wallet for one, Funny thing is if you don't have a FR name on it then some kid wont buy it, Put a Schaller name on it, Yea good luck with that, How many pros are out there looking for $300 dollar guitars? Think about it

Bwahaha hilarious!
I've always preferred Schaller>OFR. That said I'm ok if my geet has an OFR.
And I'm ALWAYS on the prowl for a pro $300 ride. That said, I'm far from pro...
#26
The cost of guitar set-ups really depends on your local market, as well as the (relative) skill of/demand for the particular tech.

I live in a major city, where the cost of living is pretty high. What I've seen here is about $60-80 for a regular setup, and anywhere from $75-120 for Floyd setups. In my experience, you get what you pay for with service work.

That particular guitar has a FR special/licensed FR as well. Tuning stability won't be as good as a higher quality FR, but if you didn't have any issues before, it may indeed (and hopefully) just need a setup. Otherwise, it could be parts already wearing out - check the knife edges.
- Gibson Flying V 120 #1 (White)
- Gibson Flying V 120 #2 (Cherry)
- Gibson SG Standard ('61 style)
- Jackson DK2M

- ENGL Fireball 60
- Avatar 4x12

- Many pedals, plus other stuff
#27
My local tech charges $35 for a Floyd guitar which includes a new set of strings, add 10 if the intonation needs adjusted. I have 14 guitars many have Floyd's

I don't have to change strings on my Floyd guitars often because I rotate them so when they need restrung and due to the fact that my patience is not what it used to be I just pay for the tech to do it he does a great job and $35 w/strings is a damn good deal.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#28
Quote by nastytroll
Yea Manufactures can be a bit vague, Special? Sure why not? Licensed? anyone who paid FR for a License can make them, Special means made in Asia still owned by FR, Original? well that's a different story, Floyds original design was built by Schaller Germany, it wasn't until he made enough money was he able to open a plant in the USA, So what's a real original? Personally I don't have a lot of guitars with floating bridges, but I'll take a German Schaller over a US FR any day, And believe it or not Schaller still makes bridges for FR, Just be prepared to unass your wallet for one, Funny thing is if you don't have a FR name on it then some kid wont buy it, Put a Schaller name on it, Yea good luck with that, But then again how many pros are out there looking for $300 dollar guitars? Think about it


So.. that means anyone (with enough money) can buy a FR license and make bridges and sell under the FR name regardless of quality/materials? That doesn't seem too fair..
#29
Quote by Parac
So.. that means anyone (with enough money) can buy a FR license and make bridges and sell under the FR name regardless of quality/materials? That doesn't seem too fair..

In a nutshell, yes.
There's patent infringement to consider.
If a manufacturer designs a bridge that is too closely resembling the OFR, they need to have it licensed or risk lawsuit.
There's no shortage of shitty bridges with Floyd Licensed stamped on them.
#30
Quote by Diatribes
In a nutshell, yes.
There's patent infringement to consider.
If a manufacturer designs a bridge that is too closely resembling the OFR, they need to have it licensed or risk lawsuit.
There's no shortage of shitty bridges with Floyd Licensed stamped on them.


well not exactly. the patent has run out so anyone can use the basic design. as for putting the Floyd Rose name on it well that's another story. back before the patent ended there were makers that got a license however they were required to meet certain specs. granted these were often below an actual FR standard. the really crappy ones tended to say licensed under FR patents in very small print and not look all that much as a FR.
#31
monwobobbo
Ah. Last time I was discussing FR stuff I had heard it was required for license.
I shouldn't believe everything I read apparently
#32
Quote by monwobobbo
well not exactly. the patent has run out so anyone can use the basic design. as for putting the Floyd Rose name on it well that's another story. back before the patent ended there were makers that got a license however they were required to meet certain specs. granted these were often below an actual FR standard. the really crappy ones tended to say licensed under FR patents in very small print and not look all that much as a FR.


Kinda what I was referring to, put a FR badge on it and it sells like hot cakes to the average kid, Put a Schaller or other badge on it and the average kid wont recognize the name so it doesn't sell as well, Thus the license to use the name, Believe me marketing is a multi billion dollar industry, Think a kid is going to fork out $300 bucks if he hasn't heard of the name? They don't think that way my friend.
#33
Quote by Diatribes
Better get that right the first time. Adjusting bridge height may end up problematic.
you know what they say "the dumber the plumber the bigger the bummer!"


Not if you use the low strength stuff, I used the purple low strength Loctite 545 on the saddle screws of my Fender Jazzmaster bridge and the bond is easily broken with a hex key but the saddles stay put.

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/88546163

TBH I'm shocked that T00DEEPBLUE has not weighed in yet to tell OP he is worthless if he doesn't set up his own guitar
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

Last edited by Evilnine at Nov 23, 2016,
#34
Quote by nastytroll
Kinda what I was referring to, put a FR badge on it and it sells like hot cakes to the average kid, Put a Schaller or other badge on it and the average kid wont recognize the name so it doesn't sell as well, Thus the license to use the name, Believe me marketing is a multi billion dollar industry, Think a kid is going to fork out $300 bucks if he hasn't heard of the name? They don't think that way my friend.


I hear you. oh and one thing you said wasn't quite right. the first Floyd Roses were made in his garage (so US made) when he couldn't meet the demand he got into a partnership with Schaller and they we made in Germany. later they added the Korean production to make more affordable models. as far as I know there was no US factory producing them. an office and a warehouse/distribution center but that's it.
#36
Quote by Parac
I've had my MH50 over a year now, aside from the initial setup, there's not been any changes to my guitar, but one problem that's been plaguing me this whole time is that my FloydRose Special makes my strings go out of tune after even the slightest of bends (up/down), and it's rather annoying because whats the point of having a floyd rose if it doesn't work correctly?

I emailed ESP a while ago, they said it could be a setup issue, and would recommend I go to a trusted guitar shop to fix it

So I contacted a local GuitarCenter, they said they could re-set it up for "$60 - $70", is that a reasonable price? Or should I go to another shop?
Because I don't want to shell out nearly $100 and still have the problem, just want to pay once have it fixed and thats all.

Would a simple re-setup fix it? I'm not changing the tuning, I just want that pesky bridge problem fixed so I can actually use it like a floyd rose and not like a fixed bridge

Thanks


Out of curiosity did you stretch the strings out before you started playing the guitar ? Because if you don't stretch the strings out first then no amount of tweaking elsewhere is going to keep that guitar in tune.
#37
Quote by tdunster
Out of curiosity did you stretch the strings out before you started playing the guitar ? Because if you don't stretch the strings out first then no amount of tweaking elsewhere is going to keep that guitar in tune.

+1!!!
A lot of people don' t get this....
#38
Quote by Diatribes
Evilnine
I agree completely. It's so easy to set up a guitar.


I dunno about that, I somewhat understand how to set up a fixed bridge guitar (least how I imagine it goes in my mind), but I dunno whether the GC tech who set up my guitar was trying to scare me or not, he told me not to mess with a FR equipped guitar or the truss rod so I dunno about the real difficulty.

Quote by tdunster
Out of curiosity did you stretch the strings out before you started playing the guitar ? Because if you don't stretch the strings out first then no amount of tweaking elsewhere is going to keep that guitar in tune.


What do you mean by stretching? If you mean installing those strings then tuning it slightly above the correct pitch, yes I do that; but after a while I try to tune it back to the set-up tuning so I don't accidentally break the neck
#39
Quote by Parac
What do you mean by stretching? If you mean installing those strings then tuning it slightly above the correct pitch, yes I do that; but after a while I try to tune it back to the set-up tuning so I don't accidentally break the neck


Problem solved. You are not stretching your strings. That's why it's not holding tune.
You need to pull / stretch the strings by hand other wise the strings will stretch whenever you bend them - but not return to length.


Check this video.
Last edited by tdunster at Nov 25, 2016,
#40
Quote by Parac
I dunno about that, I somewhat understand how to set up a fixed bridge guitar (least how I imagine it goes in my mind), but I dunno whether the GC tech who set up my guitar was trying to scare me or not, he told me not to mess with a FR equipped guitar or the truss rod so I dunno about the real difficulty.


What do you mean by stretching? If you mean installing those strings then tuning it slightly above the correct pitch, yes I do that; but after a while I try to tune it back to the set-up tuning so I don't accidentally break the neck


Watch a tube on setup of Floyd and truss rod adjustment.
Easy peasy lemon squeezy

And yea, stretch them damn strings...
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