#1
I bought a cedar top Tanglewood budget acoustic guitar as I really liked the warm tone. On its own it sounds really nice but it gets lost in a full band mix. It is too dark to cut through. Also, I tried the Yamaha fg830 and I am interested in buying it. I think that the spruce top helps to cut through as it is brighter.

I would like to track a standard guitar and a high strung guitar, so I would like to ask you if you would think that the cedar top Tanglewood would work as a high strung guitar?
#3
Why don't you try 80/20 brass strings and use the equalizer you'll find on just about every A/E guitar?

I always thought the "Nashville tuning" stuff was for when nobody had a 12 string handy.

I will give you that with no bottom end to speak of, your guitar won't ever be accused of being "dark".
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 25, 2016,
#4
Quote by Captaincranky
Why don't you try 80/20 brass strings and use the equalizer you'll find on just about every A/E guitar?

I always thought the "Nashville tuning" stuff was for when nobody had a 12 string handy.

I will give you that with no bottom end to speak of, your guitar won't ever be accused of being "dark".


I have no 12 string available. My guitar does not have a pickup/ built-in microphone. I use an Oktava SDC microphone to capture the sound. I tried using EQ but I tend to ruin the guitar tone if I try pushing it more. I tried recording with SM57, but I can't play loud enough for the SM57 as the cedar top does not like hard strumming. Almost sounds like electric guitar overdrive when I play loud. It sound too compressed and focused. The Yamaha I am interested in does not have a pickup neither.
#5
Gab_Azz I hate to say this, but IMHO, you need to think about more suitable equipment for live performances.

If you're Andres Segovia, and you're going to perform sitting on your butt, solo, a mic works. In a band, not so much, if at all..

And by all means, stay away from guitars without electronics. When I play through an amp at home, I pretty much have the treble all the way cut, and the bass all the way boosted. This is my way of dealing with "loudness contour", especially with a 12 string. However, when I try to find a place for one playing along with the stereo, all the settings have to be changed. Miked guitars simply don't give you that flexibility.

Then, when you get a guitar with enough high end to fit n a live mix, you'll be able to start whimpering about, "piezo quack", like the rest of your peers. So yeah, piezos might be brittle, but so is the sound of beer bottles clanking together, and you do want to win that confrontation, don't you?

You sound both stubborn and misguided. I'm not trying to be rude, just giving you a wake up call. As for buying another guitar for live performance without electronics, remember, "doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity".

As far a Nashville tuning goes, I've never seen anybody on stage performing live without all normal strings on their sixer.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 25, 2016,
#6
I also wouldn't contemplate using a mic for live performance*. If you don't like piezo quack, you can use a soundhole pickup, which I came to prefer for their mellower sound. They are easily installed in guitars with a 4"soundhole.

* I suppose that some trad bluegrassers still use them, but I bet that they are in the minority.
#7
Quote by Captaincranky
Gab_Azz I hate to say this, but IMHO, you need to think about more suitable equipment for live performances.

If you're Andres Segovia, and you're going to perform sitting on your butt, solo, a mic works. In a band, not so much, if at all..

And by all means, stay away from guitars without electronics. When I play through an amp at home, I pretty much have the treble all the way cut, and the bass all the way boosted. This is my way of dealing with "loudness contour", especially with a 12 string. However, when I try to find a place for one playing along with the stereo, all the settings have to be changed. Miked guitars simply don't give you that flexibility.

Then, when you get a guitar with enough high end to fit n a live mix, you'll be able to start whimpering about, "piezo quack", like the rest of your peers. So yeah, piezos might be brittle, but so is the sound of beer bottles clanking together, and you do want to win that confrontation, don't you?

You sound both stubborn and misguided. I'm not trying to be rude, just giving you a wake up call. As for buying another guitar for live performance without electronics, remember, "doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity".

As far a Nashville tuning goes, I've never seen anybody on stage performing live without all normal strings on their sixer.


Sony I mislead you. I only use it for home recording. I thing I would have better definition recording a normal acoustic and a Nashville tuning separately rather than recording a 12 string. The condenser sounds great in a controlled environment. I perform with an electric guitar generally.
#8
Quote by Gab_Azz
Sony I mislead you. I only use it for home recording. I thing I would have better definition recording a normal acoustic and a Nashville tuning separately rather than recording a 12 string.
I've seen accounts, (uncertain of their accuracy though),, where Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" was recorded in that manner. Who knows, because I've also seen David Gilmore with a 12 string, doing a quick demo of, "Wish You Were Here". As far as 12 strings go, the thinner the pick, the less overloaded the sound will be coming out of one. It's sort of an oddity that a 12 string requires the light picking touch of an electric, but at the same time, a heavier grip than a 6 string acoustic. Then, there are intonation issues aplenty to deal with, since the 2 strings in the octave pairs pair don't change pitch at the same rate, despite the fretting force being equal. (I'm pretty sure the plain octave strings, go sharper than the prime strings, all else being equal.

Be all that as it may, overdubbing will still present timing issues, since none of us can actually play the same thing, exactly the same way twice. Keep in mind I'm not denigrating anyone's playing. In fact, the slight differences in strumming pattern and/or timing, can be a worthwhile effect you might embrace.

Quote by Gab_Azz
The condenser sounds great in a controlled environment. I perform with an electric guitar generally.
Keep in mind I don't record anything myself, so this next statement will be purely "hearsay". The more times you use a mic, the more you are likely to introduce phasing issues into your recordings. It has to do with mic distance, which needs to be as uniform as possible from all sources.

OK, it's pretty obvious you have the wrong guitar now for the intended purpose. It has to do with the "loudness contour issues", I mentioned before. The Tanglewood is most likely a wonderful sounding instrument for playing by yourself at low volumes.

But frankly, I'm not sure I grasp the difference between an instrument which would cut through a live stage mix, and one which would do the same thing in a recording environment. When you come right down to it, recordings have always presented losses in high frequency ranges, as well as softening up the transients.

I could pretty much guarantee you, the acoustics you hear on records, are brighter in person, or in the studio, than they are in playback
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 26, 2016,
#9
Quote by Captaincranky
I've seen accounts, (uncertain of their accuracy though),, where Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" was recorded in that manner. Who knows, because I've also seen David Gilmore with a 12 string, doing a quick demo of, "Wish You Were Here". As far as 12 strings go, the thinner the pick, the less overloaded the sound will be coming out of one. It's sort of an oddity that a 12 string requires the light picking touch of an electric, but at the same time, a heavier grip than a 6 string acoustic. Then, there are intonation issues aplenty to deal with, since the 2 strings in the octave pairs pair don't change pitch at the same rate, despite the fretting force being equal. (I'm pretty sure the plain octave strings, go sharper than the prime strings, all else being equal.

Be all that as it may, overdubbing will still present timing issues, since none of us can actually play the same thing, exactly the same way twice. Keep in mind I'm not denigrating anyone's playing. In fact, the slight differences in strumming pattern and/or timing, can be a worthwhile effect you might embrace.

Keep in mind I don't record anything myself, so this next statement will be purely "hearsay". The more times you use a mic, the more you are likely to introduce phasing issues into your recordings. It has to do with mic distance, which needs to be as uniform as possible from all sources.

OK, it's pretty obvious you have the wrong guitar now for the intended purpose. It has to do with the "loudness contour issues", I mentioned before. The Tanglewood is most likely a wonderful sounding instrument for playing by yourself at low volumes.

But frankly, I'm not sure I grasp the difference between an instrument which would cut through a live stage mix, and one which would do the same thing in a recording environment. When you come right down to it, recordings have always presented losses in high frequency ranges, as well as softening up the transients.

I could pretty much guarantee you, the acoustics you hear on records, are brighter in person, or in the studio, than they are in playback


Yes I am a big fan of David Gilmour and I have read that he used this tuning. I also saw a few demos of studio engineers using this to obtain a great sound.

Also, you are right. The slight difference in performance between a take and another makes the mix more interesting. When I started recording I used to record acoustic guitar in stereo,keeping the best take. Now, I record 2 mono tracks and pan them on either side. The result is a more complex sound. The slight differences makes the song interesting in the stereo image. I believe that most studio engineers do this as I've seen a lot of videos online of people explaining how to do this.

Yes maybe a guitar would be brighter than recorded live, but this tangle tanglewood is particularly dark. It gets lost in the mix as I add drums and electric guitars. I tried other guitars including the yamaha. They sound way brighter.