#1
He said that he will implement a 35% tax on all companies who ship jobs to other countries that want to sell their products in the US.

My question to you guys, is this the end of MIM Fenders? Or does this mean that we will see a huge spike in prices?
#2
I'd guess it will affect nothing.
What he talked about during the campaign and what he's actually capable of doing are two different things. Running for office is different from actually governing.
#3
Spike in prices, FMIC, Taylor, Martin, Ford, GM and many others are most likely shitting they're britches right now, Oh no there goes all our cheap labor profit, Personally I only have one guitar made in S Korea, the rest made in USA, Actually I have a Godin that's a Canadian company but the guitar itself was assembled in the USA, How's that for outsourcing?
#5
Fumble fingers

This completely flips Fenders business model upside down.

Standard MIM Fender + a 35% tax = $810 w/o HSC

The USA Special is $999 w/ HSC

Really interested to see what they do. Oh yeah, I failed to mention that they are discontinuing the USA Standard.

Fender had a bulletproof business model for years, let me just say I am glad I bought my '16 USA standard strat, shit is about to get crazy.
#6
Frankly I don't think he will hold to it. I doubt we'll have much to worry about.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#7
Quote by dspellman
I'd guess it will affect nothing.
What he talked about during the campaign and what he's actually capable of doing are two different things. Running for office is different from actually governing.


bingo

not saying it absolutely definitely 100% not-in-a-million-years won't happen but...


i'll believe it when i see it. kind of thing.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#8
Quote by NewDayHappy
Fumble fingers

This completely flips Fenders business model upside down.

Standard MIM Fender + a 35% tax = $810 w/o HSC

The USA Special is $999 w/ HSC

Really interested to see what they do. Oh yeah, I failed to mention that they are discontinuing the USA Standard.

Fender had a bulletproof business model for years, let me just say I am glad I bought my '16 USA standard strat, shit is about to get crazy.


Or, y'know, they'll probably just introduce another model which is basically a USA standard with a different name. Like they did with the USA deluxe which is now the American Elite.

Don't worry about it 'till it happens. If it does happen (unlikely), odds are shops will have stock at the old prices (or at least you'll get some advance warning so can buy before the new tax takes effect).
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#9
It will depend on how the laws are written etc. Fender is an American company and the two branches are relatively close to each other. Fender can easily prove a % of American parts or labor and get around a lot of it.It all depends on how the law is written and usually there is an out for a lot of companies.
#10
The Economist's Intelligence Unit and other highly regarded economic analysis organizations predicted that Trump's policies regarding tariffs, trade wars, and the like would trigger and/or exacerbate a global recession while racking up 1T+ annual deficits.

IOW, if the Republican majority rubber stamps the proposals he ran on, forget about the MIM Fenders- any and all consumer items you can think of that are manufactured abroad in part or in whole will become harder for everyone to purchase.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
#11
Trump has been flipping on his campaign rhetoric right and left since the election, the Republican Party is in conflict within itself over what will and won't be done, and what was stated during the campaign ain't necessarily what's going to happen in real life over the next four years.

Remember the "poor West Virginia coal miner" who'd lost his job 18 months before and was crying on television? The Republicans had taken a statement that Hillary had made (the full text of what she said is here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/may/10/context-hillary-clintons-comments-about-coal-jobs/ ) and pulled one piece completely out of context that stated, "Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?" Her statement was completely the opposite sentiment, but this miner (Bo Copely?) ambushed her with it at a Town Meeting. The Republicans ran it over and over as a commercial.

Trump made sweeping statements about how he was going to get those miners their jobs back, and how he was going to make coal great again. Since the election, of course, questions about coal jobs directed at Mitch McConnell have been met with "it's a private enterprise matter..."

Republican McConnell (the Senate Majority Leader) places his allegiance with coal barons, and not their workers.

As coal has declined, the ailing industry has been attempting to "jettison all pension obligations to miners" while still giving multi-billion-dollar bonus packages to executives and McConnell has been repeatedly blocking a bill that would provide a pension plan and health benefits to about 13,000 retired coal miners (many of whom are dying of black lung) in his home state.

It's far more likely that we'll see the status quo continue.
#12
Just glad I plan on my future guitars to be USA.
Dean Icon PZ
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#13
that's a typical liberal link there dspellman that's not very accurate ...... you guys are all worried about nothing ..... the price will go up a little , not know 35 percent , bet it goes up 10 to 15 percent though
#14
They will probably go up in price as Mexico will import jobless American luthiers to do the assembly

It is mostly BS I think, in order to enact anything in effect there'll be a lot of work, probably 2 years of legislation.

It is possible that the prices will go in line with the European market as the EU already penalizes manufacturers with these taxes, so look up Thomann and compare.

I've never cared about the Mexican cheesegraters that sell as "Fender" so it won't affect me a single bit.
#15
he won't be able to any more than he can impose that on china as he wants to. all that will happen if he does is that countries will stop buying american goods thus defeating the purpose. now he may well be able to put a tariff on certain goods which could be beneficial but in many cases not so much. if he wants jobs back in America then he'll have to lower taxes and get rid of tax shelters overseas. some manufacturing has already started to come back as it's not really more expensive to produce some things here after you factor in shipping and related expenses.
#16
It should be noted that nearly all of the rhetoric about throwing up tariffs to save jobs in the USA is just that. NAFTA and the other trade agreements in place have actually been achieving their purpose, which was to level the playing field and make US workers more competitive overall. We currently have a net positive export surplus (once oil and gasoline products have been factored out). Some industries have been hurt, some have been helped, but that was expected.

Britain, in approving Brexit, wants to control immigration and freedom of movement from EU countries, but desperately wants to preserve its place in the one market (free trade), but the EU is basically telling them that they can't have one without the other. Thus the whole set of agreements that will be hammered out over the next half dozen years will be vital to the British economy, because the free trade they enjoyed with the EU was very much to their benefit, too. Now the EU will be free to tariff Brit imports, which will be painful to British producers.
#17
...and consumers, natch.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
#18
Since he got elected the peso has dropped in price and now is on its way up. So you were paying a guy 3.5usd a day to make your 1000usd amp. Now it might be like 7bucks. This is only based on my mexican friend's guess that a mexican's wages is 70 pesos a day and 20 pesos is a dollar. A bag of mini cheetos is 5 pesos so basically a minimum wage mexican gets 12 bags of mini cheetos and a round trip bus ticket a day for assembling a 5150iii. Now hopefully they get more like 24 mini cheetos and a mini coke.
Last edited by geo-rage at Nov 28, 2016,
#19
Anyone here ever been to Corona CA.? Might want to ask yourself what happens when he deports all the illegals, Who do you think is working on the Fender USA factory assembly line?
#21
Quote by gu1tarn00b
noob question, are made in mexico fenders better than ones made in other places?


Mexican Fenders are fine instruments, but Made in America ones are technically "better."
#22
gu1tarn00b

My 2016 MIA Standard Strat is the best fender I've ever played, but I have owned two MIM Strats that were great guitars as well.
#23
No clue but its definitely going to effect the quality of the threads here for a few months.
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#24
People are saying that it will, in a yuuuuge way. But it's a scam. Sad.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
#25
Quote by nastytroll
Anyone here ever been to Corona CA.? Might want to ask yourself what happens when he deports all the illegals, Who do you think is working on the Fender USA factory assembly line?


I have an office across the parking lot from the Fender Museum in Corona.
He's not going to deport any more illegals than have been deported yearly for the last eight or so.
#26
Quote by gu1tarn00b
noob question, are made in mexico fenders better than ones made in other places?


sometimes. many of the Chinese made Fender guitars are fine and compare well to MIMs. personally I still prefer MIMS to Asian made but the gap is closing fast. keep in mind that there are higher end MIMs that are "better" but again that is opinion for the most part.
#27
How does Trump effect made in Mexico Fenders?


I heard he likes a wah pedal.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#28
^^ yeah i was gonna say i wasn't aware he was involved in bringing them into being...
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 30, 2016,
#29
I think we won't know what's really going to happen until Trump is actually in office. It depends on if new tariffs/laws are actually passed, and how they're written.

If a 35% tariff somehow does pass (I don't see such a high tariff, or bailing out of NAFTA happening, personally - But it is Trump, so who knows...), then we will know if it is time to snatch up cheap MIM guitars on the secondhand market.

Maybe a MIM strat/tele is going on my 2017 GAS list just to be safe!
- Gibson Flying V 120 #1 (White)
- Gibson Flying V 120 #2 (Cherry)
- Gibson SG Standard ('61 style)
- Jackson DK2M

- ENGL Fireball 60
- Avatar 4x12

- Many pedals, plus other stuff
#30
Well. Fender already has jobs in mexico, so they wont be sending any more there. Fender already makes a lot of gear in china so the guitars might get built there instead. Made in mexico might become a luxury brand. Maybe if the usa stops importing super cheap slave labor made guitars, everyone in the usa will start making their own guitars and the price of used gear will go up. Maybe the usa builders will sell double the usual and lower their prices. Maybe the usa economy will collapse and the mexicans will start buying all of our nice guitars with the money they have been saving up.
#31
SO far, the Fender business model is quite interesting. There is now a wider gap between the American Specials & now the Professionals which replace the American Standard guitars. For the first time in Fender history, there will be a Butterscotch in the Professional/Standard line up. That will probably be my main target for 2017. So far it looks like this:

Elite: $1,799
Professional: $1,399
Road Worn: $899
Baja: $799
Special: $999
MIM Standard: $599
Duo Sonic: $499
Mustang: $499

Those are their main sellers, if a 35% tax is implemented, I think the Baja & Road Worn could be eliminated because pricewise they could be entering the American Special territory.

On a random note, I'm not sure why Fender would undercut their Elites like that by introducing the Professional. I think people by far will go with the Professional over the Elites, any day of the week. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
#32
Quote by NewDayHappy
SO far, the Fender business model is quite interesting. There is now a wider gap between the American Specials & now the Professionals which replace the American Standard guitars. For the first time in Fender history, there will be a Butterscotch in the Professional/Standard line up. That will probably be my main target for 2017. So far it looks like this:

Elite: $1,799
Professional: $1,399
Road Worn: $899
Baja: $799
Special: $999
MIM Standard: $599
Duo Sonic: $499
Mustang: $499

Those are their main sellers, if a 35% tax is implemented, I think the Baja & Road Worn could be eliminated because pricewise they could be entering the American Special territory.

On a random note, I'm not sure why Fender would undercut their Elites like that by introducing the Professional. I think people by far will go with the Professional over the Elites, any day of the week. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


well I highly doubt that a 35% tariff will fly with anyone. the other thing is that it will be on the pre wholesale price not on the retail price. (ie what fender actually pays for them)

Fender has had a higher end guitar (now elite before deluxe) over the standard (now professional) for a long time. nothing new there. sure they will sell more professionals but obviously the elite sales have been enough to keep them in production.
#33
monwobobbo

I mean, you're right. I didn't think of that obviously. I hope they keep the duo sonics though until I get my tax returns, I want one.
#34
NewDayHappy

I doubt even if they went out of production tomorrow that you'd have a hard time finding one at tax time.
#35
afaik, presidents can't even impose tariffs as high as 35%. They can impose a maximum of 15%, but only for 150 days, and only if Trump can squeak through the loopholes to define lost jobs as "an adverse impact on national security from imports." A bit of a tough sell, that.

There is also the "Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917" that would allow him to impose tariffs as high as he likes, but you guys would have to actively be at war in order for trump to do that, and the vague definition of war could probably open a few loopholes to get that done (american presence in Libya and Syria might just be enough to do it). Nixon did it in the early 70s, citing the Korean War which had ended like 15 years before that--but the state of emergency had never technically been lifted, so he was allowed to impose an across-the-board tax of 10% on all imports.

If there's a national emergency declared, trump could also impose tariffs on another country as high as he likes. But again, it's difficult to imagine a realistic scenario in which Trump declares a national emergency just to raise taxes on imported goods.

Reagan used the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 to impose tariffs, and Trump could conceivably use it too but it would only be on certain industries and i highly doubt musical instruments is one of them lol. All these tariffs are meant to protect the nation's chief industries (coal, steel, agriculture) and not novelty imports from Mexico by an American company headquartered on American soil using American hardware.

So no, there will not be a 35% tariff on Mexican goods, lol. In the worst case scenario, there'd be an across-the-board tariff that is much, much lower and wouldn't kill MIMs.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
Bitches be Crazy.

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#36
they'll never make it over The Wall.

I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#37
gregs1020

Of course Donny's gonna help you build The Wall..

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.