#1
I have a Berhinger guitar amp, (don't laugh yet). It's a 60 watt 1 x 12" solid state. OK, I only use the clean channel, (believe it or not, said clean channel is beautiful sounding), basically for amplifying acoustic electric guitars of 6 & 12 string varieties in the house. Generally the volume isn't advanced past 9 o'clock. There's no pregain control on the clean channel, so it isn't being pushed hard. The amp has a dirty channel, but it doesn't get used.

So, we're not running the amp anywhere near full output. Here's my question; the amp has a cooling fan, which is fairly annoying, especially in light of the fact the amp isn't being played loud enough to drown it out. Do you think I could get away with disconnecting it, or installing a switch to turn if off while playing at my normal low volumes, without doing any damage?

I've considered putting a larger, lower RPM fan in the amp, as you would with a computer case. But that would entail chopping big holes into the amp chassis, which I'm hoping to avoid.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 28, 2016,
#2
They wouldn't put a fan in such a cheap little amp if there wasn't a good reason for it to be there.

Without knowing what the fan is actually cooling that's probably the best answer you're going to get.
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#3
^ Yeah pretty much. Not sure what the reliability is like on them compared to, say, Bugera, but you'd have to wonder that they'd put one in if it wasn't absolutely definitely needed.

Can I make that crappy joke again about not realising that Behringers had fans?
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#4
Not the answer I was hoping to hear you two. But since I suppose not much has changed about the adage, "discretion is the better part of valor", I'll concede to your assessment(s).

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
They wouldn't put a fan in such a cheap little amp if there wasn't a good reason for it to be there....[ ]....
Well, you only score 1 out of 2 on that. It was cheap, not only by virtue of being "made by Berhinger", but by being a closeout model as well. But, it isn't a "little amp.". In fact, at 20" x 20" x 10", it's about the same size as your average 1 x 12" solid state amp.

Quote by Dave_Mc
^ Yeah pretty much. Not sure what the reliability is like on them compared to, say, Bugera, but you'd have to wonder that they'd put one in if it wasn't absolutely definitely needed.
Well the amp has a "grunge channel" (which I of course, don't use), and their products are aimed at budget buyers. So, defense against some teenage wahoo with a BC Rich, "Warlock", pegging the controls at "11" is most likely why it's needed in the grand scheme of things. So as to prevent the charred remains of the output transistors having to be replaced under warranty, is my best guess..


Quote by Dave_Mc
Can I make that crappy joke again about not realising that Behringers had fans?
Dave, I a big boy, I can take it. You can make any crappy joke you feel is appropriate about Berhinger amplifiers.

I just wish English "English", had more than a 25 letter alphabet, so I wouldn't get the squiggly red lines under, anything you you type with an "S", where a "Z" actually belongs. "Realize" Dave, not realise". And keep in mind I do very often type such words as "color", spelled, "colour", undaunted by said red lines under them, to honour (*) my British heritage.

(*) Do you see what I did there?

Anyway guys, believe it or, this Berhinger electric guitar amp, is worlds away superior to my Peavey, "eCoustic 208". Which is a monumental piece of crap with an overall 40db S/N ratio, a stinking noisy analog chorus, a lousy spring reverb, and 2 8" speakers with whizzer cones, which sound like somebody talking with a clothespin on their nose, every time you plug a 12 string into the PoS.

PS you two, thanks for your input!
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 28, 2016,
#5
Quote by Dave_Mc

Can I make that crappy joke again about not realising that Behringers had fans?

I think I need one just to cool down that burn.
Quote by Axelfox
Please understand how little we as a community care

Quote by MurrcuryFoxx
I'm sorry I wasn't trying to be kink shamming what ever bloats your goat dude. I'm just personally not into fucking people I"m related to.
#6
Quote by Captaincranky
Well, you only score 1 out of 2 on that. It was cheap, not only by virtue of being "made by Berhinger", but by being a closeout model as well. But, it isn't a "little amp.". In fact, at 20" x 20" x 10", it's about the same size as your average 1 x 12" solid state amp.

1x12 combos are not exactly 'big' amps but ok.

I just wish English "English", had more than a 25 letter alphabet,

It does; It has 26.
Quote by Axelfox
Please understand how little we as a community care

Quote by MurrcuryFoxx
I'm sorry I wasn't trying to be kink shamming what ever bloats your goat dude. I'm just personally not into fucking people I"m related to.
#7
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
1x12 combos are not exactly 'big' amps but ok.
Well, granted it's not a 4 x 12" 100 watt head and cab setup, but I do live in a row house. So 60 watts of anything at 3:00AM tends to sound humongous...

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
It does; It has 26.
I know, but the poor "Z" gets treated worse than a red headed step child...
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 28, 2016,
#8
Most of the fans I've seen in amps have been standard size computer fans. Usually you can get a part number off of them and order a "silent" drop-in replacement online for a few bucks. Even a nice super-quiet computer fan isn't generally more than $10. Turn the voltage down a bit and you'll probably never even hear it.
#9
Quote by Captaincranky

Well the amp has a "grunge channel" (which I of course, don't use), and their products are aimed at budget buyers. So, defense against some teenage wahoo with a BC Rich, "Warlock", pegging the controls at "11" is most likely why it's needed in the grand scheme of things. So as to prevent the charred remains of the output transistors having to be replaced under warranty, is my best guess..


Dave, I a big boy, I can take it. You can make any crappy joke you feel is appropriate about Berhinger amplifiers.

I just wish English "English", had more than a 25 letter alphabet, so I wouldn't get the squiggly red lines under, anything you you type with an "S", where a "Z" actually belongs. "Realize" Dave, not realise". And keep in mind I do very often type such words as "color", spelled, "colour", undaunted by said red lines under them, to honour (*) my British heritage.

(*) Do you see what I did there?

Anyway guys, believe it or, this Berhinger electric guitar amp, is worlds away superior to my Peavey, "eCoustic 208". Which is a monumental piece of crap with an overall 40db S/N ratio, a stinking noisy analog chorus, a lousy spring reverb, and 2 8" speakers with whizzer cones, which sound like somebody talking with a clothespin on their nose, every time you plug a 12 string into the PoS.

PS you two, thanks for your input!


It may well be great, I haven't tried it. I was just trying to get double the mileage of the crappy fan joke which I used before in another thread about replacing or removing the fan in a Behringer amp

You should probably listen to Roc8995, he knows more about this stuff than I do. If drop-in silent replacements are easily available, that's likely the way to go (assuming you're already out of warranty etc. and you know how not to kill yourself when you have the chassis open).
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#10
Quote by Roc8995
Most of the fans I've seen in amps have been standard size computer fans. Usually you can get a part number off of them and order a "silent" drop-in replacement online for a few bucks. Even a nice super-quiet computer fan isn't generally more than $10. Turn the voltage down a bit and you'll probably never even hear it.
First I apologize for taking so long to respond to your post.

A lot of what I was misinterpreting as coming from the fan, is some AC line hum and hiss coming from the effects .

Although, it has to be said, this is a small fan, no more than 60mm. I having a tough time "suspending disbelief", that you can lower noise substantially by buying a "quiet fan", in such a small unit. I do completely agree with you about quiet computer fans in general, as long as we attach a larger size disclaimer to the concept. If we're talking about 120mm fans, you can up the blade pitch and drop the rpms, yielding a sizeable reduction in noise, along with quieter bearings, and different blade tip shapes. Still, even in those sizes, a lot of makers drop the CFM of air moved, and then, (somewhat facetiously IMO), proclaim "quiet". I honestly don't know how much you can drop the rpm on such small fans, which are turning in the neighborhood of 3500+ rpm, and still move the same amount of air. Seriously though, it's a good idea and worth a shot. The next time I put in order to Newegg, I'll grab something and give it a try.

Realistically, I feel like I'm whimpering about nothing, since you can't hear the fan when you're playing, and I haven't any intentions of trying to record anything.

If I weren't using a "Pitchfork" octave generator, which has to up the power loading on the amp quite a bit, especially with the sub-octave in use, I'd likely just cut the leads off and take my chances.

I should probably just count my blessings. The clean channel of this amp sounds soooo much better than my Peavey, which cost twice as much.

Quote by Dave_Mc
It may well be great, I haven't tried it. I was just trying to get double the mileage of the crappy fan joke which I used before in another thread about replacing or removing the fan in a Behringer amp
So is this you're way of telling me you're not a virgin on this topic?

Quote by Dave_Mc
You should probably listen to Roc8995, he knows more about this stuff than I do. If drop-in silent replacements are easily available, that's likely the way to go (assuming you're already out of warranty etc. and you know how not to kill yourself when you have the chassis open).
Actually I do know how to open the amp up without killing myself. I learned it the hard way. Funny story. My daddy was a TV repairman, and he used to get old store record demo amps and bring them home. This was in the late 50's. The amps were monaural, and used 6V6 tubes in a push-pull output, exactly the same way, (and same tubes), which the smaller 20 watt guitar amps do today. The power supply filter caps were all bad, and you couldn't get the proprietary triple element electrolytics as a direct replacement. So, you had to bundle 3 separate caps, tape them together, and fix them to the amp chassis any way you could. I was about 10, and went to work with dad where I decided to fix the amp. The positive side of the caps gets connected o the B+ side of the tube plates, and by extension to the output transformer which ultimately connects the B+ to ground through its primary winding. Anyway, I forgot to connect the caps to it. So when I turned on the amp, the capacitors fully charged, and stayed that way, since the transformer wasn't bleeding off their charge to ground when the power was turned off. I got knocked on my ass about 3 or 4 times before I figured out the problem. (Unloaded, the B+ voltage in the output stage is 400+). If you didn't get any off this, perhaps Cathbard might think it's funny, or at least a bit cute.

I will say, getting nailed with 400 volts or so leaves quite an impression. The only reason it isn't lethal in my circumstance, is the capacitors only have sufficient charge to create a short duration burst. If that voltage were sustained, you could run into the "no let go" situation, where the electricity clamps your hand shut, since it overrides the electrical impulses your body is making to control the muscles, and causes them to contract involuntarily.

I've been told, (although I've never tried to verify), that you guys in Europe and the UK, suffer more deaths by electrocution than we do here in the states, by virtue of house current being double what it is here. (220 volts vs our 110 volts). Again, if this is true, it's because the 220 volts crosses the "no let go" threshold.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Dec 4, 2016,
#11
^ haha

yeah i'm not sure if we get more electrocutions here or not. it's even slightly higher in the UK than in the rest of europe (~240V). I wonder if that's why we have switches on our mains outlets? Most other countries don't seem to (that being said, the Republic of Ireland doesn't have them and it's the same voltage as here so ) EDIT: most people here just ignore them anyway
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#12
I don't see why blade pitch, better bearings, and RPM changes wouldn't apply to a smaller fan. There's probably less to be gained from those changes in a 60mm, but I also assume that Behringer didn't exactly spend a lot of time and money sourcing a stable, quiet fan. If nothing else, just getting a new fan with fresh bearings may help. It's so cheap that it's worth a try, I think.

Even 60mm fans have a pretty wide operation range, the one I just got runs from 3000RPM all the way down to 1600. Obviously that decreases the airflow, but since you were thinking about taking the fan out completely, I imagine that we aren't too worried about high volume so much as just making sure there's some circulation. I bet that can be achieved with a lot less noise than whatever worn-out, poorly spec'd POS Behringer stuck in there to begin with.
#13
At one time Vantech had a Stealth line of computer fans, and when I was more involved that realm of nerdom, companies like Corsair and CoolerMaster were coming up with some silent stuff. The biggest issue is that 60mm wasn't a big standard, so you may have trouble finding many choices under 80mm with drastically improved noise reduction. It all comes down to size, and the larger fans can push more air without needing to spin as fast as smaller ones.

That said, I do agree with Roc that it wouldn't hurt to try another 60mm fan. Next to nothing and unless the amp has something funky in terms of voltages, your looking at 12V operation anyway.
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#14
Quote by Captaincranky
If that voltage were sustained, you could run into the "no let go" situation, where the electricity clamps your hand shut, since it overrides the electrical impulses your body is making to control the muscles, and causes them to contract involuntarily.


Had that happen to me once. Me and my dad were fixing a box fan, I was holding a couple of wires by the end where we'd stripped the insulation off and he plugged it in not realizing I was holding them, and I didn't know he was plugging it in. My hand couldn't let go. I can't remember if he unplugged it immediately or if I used my other hand to pull the wire away, but it was very quick. I live in the states, so I'm guessing it was 110 volts, but I can't remember whether or not the wires I was holding were coming from the wall or inside the fan.
#15
Quote by The4thHorsemen
Had that happen to me once. Me and my dad were fixing a box fan, I was holding a couple of wires by the end where we'd stripped the insulation off and he plugged it in not realizing I was holding them, and I didn't know he was plugging it in. My hand couldn't let go. I can't remember if he unplugged it immediately or if I used my other hand to pull the wire away, but it was very quick. I live in the states, so I'm guessing it was 110 volts, but I can't remember whether or not the wires I was holding were coming from the wall or inside the fan.
OUCH!

It was "only 110 volts" though, assuming you were in the US. In the home, you have to be working on the inside of the main breaker box, or on a heavy duty appliance like an electric dryer, permanent baseboard heaters, or high capacity air conditioner to encounter 220 volts.

For sake of pure trivia, the amount of electric current required to kill a human being, can be very tiny, and it depends on where it's applied. I don't have the stats on the tip of my tongue, but it's very, very, low, when applied beneath the skin and near the heart, on the order of a few milliamps.

If you're ever paid attention to TV when they're using a "defibrillator" (those "paddles"), the power applied can run as high as 360 watt seconds. The machine's function is to lock the heart muscle solid, and hopefully, the heart will revert to a normal sinus rhythm on its own after the shock has passed.

If you've watched the medical dramas while they're doing open heart surgery, when they "restart the heart" they use tiny little paddles and power levels of only 10 to 20 watt seconds, to do the exact same thing. As the machine for all intents and purposes, "kills you to cure you", you can see the high ratio of current needed on top of the skin,as opposed to on the heart itself.
#16
Quote by bjgrifter
At one time Vantech had a Stealth line of computer fans, and when I was more involved that realm of nerdom, companies like Corsair and CoolerMaster were coming up with some silent stuff. The biggest issue is that 60mm wasn't a big standard, so you may have trouble finding many choices under 80mm with drastically improved noise reduction. It all comes down to size, and the larger fans can push more air without needing to spin as fast as smaller ones.
Well first,I'm not disagreeing with Roc at all. I'm sure Berhinger took a great of time and effort in trying to pinch every penny they possibly could, on parts in general, including the fan...

Quote by bjgrifter
That said, I do agree with Roc that it wouldn't hurt to try another 60mm fan. Next to nothing and unless the amp has something funky in terms of voltages, your looking at 12V operation anyway.
And I'm going to grab something, now that I've paid my credit card bills for the month.

Anyway, if you two will indulge my "nerdhood" for a bit, I can give you a decent explanation about the whys and wherefores of where we are with computer case fans as of now.

Once upon a time, Intel had a Pentium 4 "Northwood" series. These had (IIRC) a 481 pin socket, and a low TDP. Thus they ran quite cool, and you could get away with using 60mm case and CPU cooler fans with them.

Then, Intel release another series of P-4 CPUs, code named, "Prescott". We lovingly still refer to these gems/dogs as, "space heaters", and the era of the larger fan (92mm+) was born.

Roc8995 Yes, you can absolutely tinker with blade depth and pitch with a small fan, as easily as a larger one. BUT, the hubs on a 60mm fan, are darned near as big as the ones on a 120mm fan! So, total available blade area suffers almost exponentially.

Nowadays, we have computer main boards which have "PWM" (pulse width modulation) controlled 4 wire fans, across most of the board's connections, no longer just the CPU. As a result, single fans which come with a speed controller are rapidly becoming, if not already, extinct.

Anyway, I'll probably grab on of these little jewels:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835352003

It spins pretty fast, but chances are it might be quieter than the Berhinger part at the onset, or if not, I can rob a controller from a fan I have laying around the house to spin it down some.


(Picture a lot larger than life, sorry for that. But it does show the size of the hub in relation to the blade length).).
Last edited by Captaincranky at Dec 10, 2016,
#17
I like your thinking. Yeah, I remember the Prescott heaters by association. I was using AMD chips then.

Yeah a fan controller shouldnt be hard to hook up. Probably could drill holes in the housing to mount it too.
Guitars:
Squire Bullet Strat, Schecter Damien 6, Washburn WG-587 & RX10
Amp/Effects:
Peavy Vypyr 30, ISP Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.