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#1
politicians are a bunch of cunts that rarely hold true to their promises and people in general are a bunch of idiots that vote for dumb shit. so why do we insist that our varying excuses for "democracy" better than a system of meritocracy where the laws are decided by experts in each case scenario? why vote for politicians of variable decency and intellect that often seem to be more interested in making their friends and sponsors money than work for the people?
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
#2
The question is is how do you define meritocracy? IQ level? What if someone is creative but doesn't have a higher IQ level? Or what if someone has a high IQ but likes to exploit people and discriminate against people? What about people who are rich and successful purely because they inherited their business from someone else? And what about normal people? Don't they get a say in what happens to them? Think this through please.
#3
Experts could be lying cunts with their own secret agendas.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

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#4
Whoa easy there warn me next time before you rouse me from my monotonous sheeple existence.
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the thirty-seventh floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut.



Quote by matt bickerton
Doesn't at all surprise me why so many people here tend to think you're a douche
#5
Quote by Evilnine
Experts could be lying cunts with their own secret agendas.


Just because you're an expert doesn't mean you're a good person.
#6
There should be a combination of the two systems for example instead of career politicians running departments for health, defense, education etc. they should be elected experts who have put themselves forward

Also no campaigning but instead an independent body prepares an honest CV for each candidate and people view that and an honest manifesto before they make their choice

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#7
Quote by WaterGod
Just because you're an expert doesn't mean you're a good person.


That was my thought, it's not like being an "expert" would make one immune to corruption.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

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Live my twisted dream
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#8
I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive - meritocracy could exist under fascism, in a sense. You also seem to confuse expertise and merit. Many intellectual positions are founded on (unfounded) foundations of knowledge or beliefs. The only thing that a lot of ideologies share is a capacity to be true, not truth itself. You could criticise actions and ideologies themselves but unfortunately a significant amount of people don't give a shit about reason, and get emotional when their unfounded beliefs are called into question, or otherwise frequently rely on fallacies which only divert discussion.



Evilnine
doesn't make you immune to doing "bad things" either. Good tends to be pretty relative
#9
Quote by EndTheRapture51
There should be a combination of the two systems for example instead of career politicians running departments for health, defense, education etc. they should be elected experts who have put themselves forward

Also no campaigning but instead an independent body prepares an honest CV for each candidate and people view that and an honest manifesto before they make their choice


Part of the problem in the U.S. is there is not enough term limits when someone can be in congress or the supreme court long enough to get rich and retire (or die in some cases) then there is something wrong our President gets 8 years max there should be some type of limit to every office.

Also politicians get paid way to much to not really solve any problems, if I performed my job as bad as most politicians I'd be fired in a heartbeat.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#10
Quote by EndTheRapture51
There should be a combination of the two systems for example instead of career politicians running departments for health, defense, education etc. they should be elected experts who have put themselves forward

Also no campaigning but instead an independent body prepares an honest CV for each candidate and people view that and an honest manifesto before they make their choice


Well first off people don't run for the departments of health education ect. they're picked by the president. Secondly the person picking them tends to pick their friends rather than actual experts. In a job since, yeah meritocracy works, the hardest workers should get the best jobs, but as a governing philosophy you're just arguing for people to have less rights. Clearly, a president's advisers should be the one's who are most respected in their fields so they can make the right decisions for solving the country's problems.
#11
Quote by Evilnine
Part of the problem in the U.S. is there is not enough term limits when someone can be in congress or the supreme court long enough to get rich and retire (or die in some cases) then there is something wrong our President gets 8 years max there should be some type of limit to every office.

Also politicians get paid way to much to not really solve any problems, if I performed my job as bad as most politicians I'd be fired in a heartbeat.


yeah term limits should definitely be a thing i think 3 lots of 4 year terms should be maximum

UKs political class is stupid

MP is basically a job for life for many people

Quote by WaterGod
Well first off people don't run for the departments of health education ect. they're picked by the president. Secondly the person picking them tends to pick their friends rather than actual experts. In a job since, yeah meritocracy works, the hardest workers should get the best jobs, but as a governing philosophy you're just arguing for people to have less rights. Clearly, a president's advisers should be the one's who are most respected in their fields so they can make the right decisions for solving the country's problems.


i know that's why i'm proposing it be different duh

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#12
Quote by Burgery
politicians are a bunch of cunts that rarely hold true to their promises and people in general are a bunch of idiots that vote for dumb shit. so why do we insist that our varying excuses for "democracy" better than a system of meritocracy where the laws are decided by experts in each case scenario?


The "inappropriately excluded" concept: http://polymatharchives.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html?m=1

It's a great read, but tl;dr: normies don't tend to understand people not within a certain precision of their IQ (plus or minus ~20), and same with the smarter-normies level, and so on and so on.


Even so, meritocracy system would not necessarily be good. People that are very smart in one thing or way aren't necessarily smarter than you in other ways, and wanting them to gain more power over others on behalf of that is for bootlickers.

Their fundamental maths/inputs/closed-system variables/etc could need drastic re-work, and they may know things about x and how good and dandy that would be, but know shit all about economics/fiscal policy/human affects/etc
.
#13
Quote by Fat Lard
Even so, meritocracy system would not necessarily be good. People that are very smart in one thing or way aren't necessarily smarter than you in other ways, and wanting them to gain more power over others on behalf of that is for bootlickers.
also this

you don't want HAL9000 running america u dig
#14
Quote by Fat Lard


Even so, meritocracy system would not necessarily be good. People that are very smart in one thing or way aren't necessarily smarter than you in other ways, and wanting them to gain more power over others on behalf of that is for bootlickers.


instead we have a system that is a combination of a popularity contest and nepotism

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#15
Quote by Fat Lard
bootlickers.


Bootlickers

Die with your boots on!
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#17
Quote by EndTheRapture51



i know that's why i'm proposing it be different duh


Yeah I was agreeing with you, and was mostly just responding to you saying that they shouldn't be allowed to campaign when they already don't. Steve Bannon certainly did run to be Chief Strategist, Trump just picked him so they could plot how best to do away with brown people.
#18
The people we elect are certainly not the best leaders. How do we get our best people to be leaders? They don't and generally won't run for office. I would definitely rather have a so-called aristocracy of non-partisan wisdom, but such a thing seems to be a pipe-dream.
#20
Quote by EndTheRapture51
instead we have a system that is a combination of a popularity contest and nepotism


Another issue in the U.S. is we basically have a 2 party system both of which are in a perpetual pissing contest with one another, sure any third or fourth party can and do run for office but reality is they only garner some fringe votes at best the rest of the voting public know that if a third party candidate was elected to say POTUS the established parties would not cooperate and even less would get done than the minimal progress that comes from the two otherwise constantly warring parties.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#21
Quote by EndTheRapture51
instead we have a system that is a combination of a popularity contest and nepotism


"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#22
>tfw to intelligent to fall for meritocracy, or hillary
>corollary: tfw understand why trump-san simplifies down his 156 IQ ideas about MAGA

.
#24
The flaw with democracy is people vote on emotions and feelings, and which politician is the most charismatic
#25
Quote by Banjocal
also this

you don't want HAL9000 running america u dig


Just what do you think you are talking about Banjo?


"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#26
Quote by Bladez22
The flaw with democracy is people vote on emotions and feelings, and which politician is the most charismatic


Feelings are an important part of life and also need to be utilized with thinking for some optimal decision-making. You could have someone saying nice-sounding things that you wouldn't want to disagree with but in your gut you can tell they're BS
.
Last edited by Fat Lard at Nov 29, 2016,
#27
Is it bad if I find that scene genuinely upsetting

the original recording of daisy is really sad it's like I can hear time burning and melting away in it it hurts to listen to
#28
Pls define terms.

Also, the idea that other people, "experts," can know enough or be trusted to make decisions on behalf of thousands to millions of people, whose circumstances will all be unique and unknown to experts, is a dangerous one. But I'm speaking roughly about a sentiment here and who should best make decisions regarding ones own life. Of course experts should be de facto authorities in the conversations regarding the narrow fields they may be an expert in i.e. Nuclear physicists should probably be trusted more when speaking about nuclear energy than some luddites off the street.

Thomas Sowell's book Intellectuals and Society does a great job examining this idea and the notion of public intellectuals.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
#29
Quote by Bladez22
The flaw with democracy is people vote on emotions and feelings, and which politician is the most charismatic


Coupled with the fact that many voters cast their votes, blind to the facts about a specific Politian, because of party loyalty and you have a recipe for disaster.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

Last edited by Evilnine at Nov 29, 2016,
#30
Greedy, cunning, manipulative people have long replaced honest ethical candidates who actually cared about helping the populous and a nation as a whole this effectively hinders democracy as it was intended to function.

Voting for the lessor of two evils
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#31
When a politician is caught red handed in a lie that violates his or her oath then he/she should be removed from office but unfortunately, like celebrities, politicians are protected by privilege.

Fuck letting them resign to save face fire them and revoke all of their benefits and if they have broken any laws then they should be held liable for that and stand trial just like all of the plebs who actually have to work for a living and if they are found guilty put them in the same prisons as the average citizen not a minimum security Martha Stuart time out facility.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#33
Quote by Banjocal
Slow your roll there evil this isn't Tumblr


"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#34
Quote by Banjocal
Many intellectual positions are founded on (unfounded) foundations of knowledge or beliefs.

I found this bit pretty profound
kitty on my foot and I wanna touch it
meow meow meow meow meow meow
#35
Quote by Banjocal
Is it bad if I find that scene genuinely upsetting

the original recording of daisy is really sad it's like I can hear time burning and melting away in it it hurts to listen to


Sorry I was unaware that Daisy was a trigger for you.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#36
Quote by Evilnine
Sorry I was unaware that Daisy was a trigger for you.
I think it's just a weird reaction I have to it. IDK it's just quite moving

Quote by ultimate-slash
I found this bit pretty profound
in retrospect yeah that's a nonsense sentence

all I mean is you can't prove a lot of ideologies to be pure and true (precious cinnamon roll too good for this world) and it's very easy to treat X as "just obviously the right way". Even epistemology suffers for it - it's largely built on presumptions that aren't really self-evident or absolute, but rather conditional.
#37
Also I thought the term for the form of governance you're advocating for is technocracy and not meritocracy.
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the thirty-seventh floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut.



Quote by matt bickerton
Doesn't at all surprise me why so many people here tend to think you're a douche
#38
Quote by Fat Lard
Feelings are an important part of life and also need to be utilized with thinking for some optimal decision-making. You could have someone saying nice-sounding things that you wouldn't want to disagree with but in your gut you can tell they're BS


Feelings are important but a decision based on logic will always be a better than one based on emotion.

Also having a gut feeling that someone is being deceitful is different than voting for someone because you're angry at brown people. I think a gut feeling is an important thing and is a very good survival mechanism, its also very fallible and can't be relied on for something as complicated as politics
#39
As long as those that are in control whether it be elected politicians or so called experts, are self serving nothing will ever improve. Like I said prior if my job performance was as poor as the average politician my employer would fire me.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#40
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Also I thought the term for the form of governance you're advocating for is technocracy and not meritocracy.


The definitions of each are similar but I agree and either way it still does not mean corruption would not come into play.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

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