#1
So, CITES is putting bubinga (which will effect some of you looking to buy custom guitars and fancy stock guitars) and 250 species of rosewood (that's everyone else) on their endangered species list. Both are being put on appendix II which is the second highest preservation tier and is described as: "(...)species not necessarily threatened with extinction, but in which trade must be controlled in order to avoid utilization incompatible with their survival."

Kurt of Rondomusic has this to say:
(...)these tonewoods will become harder to import, and export and will likely increase in cost substantially.

There may be a significant shortage for at least the first half of 2017 as the permitting process typically takes 3 to 6 months and there is no guarantee all requests for permits will be granted.


Now, these restrictions don't apply to current stock (unless it's traded across borders), so I can imagine local shops will have to bump prices, since they'll be unable to replenish any guitars they sell that contain rosewood (so nearly all of them)
CITES is a worldwide initiative, so it'll be your local dealer's problem too.

Plan accordingly
#2
Congrats to CITES for giving these 'tonewoods' extra mojo.

Gotta hold onto my SR600 and see if some sucker on ebay will pay $1000 for it now.

/sarcasm
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#3
Looks like my rosewood neck guitars just got more valuable
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#4
I prefer ebony to rosewood anyway.

For real though, I like that they're protecting species and I wouldn't mind that guitars with rosewood became a lot more rare. On the other hand, this really doesn't help my plans to get a guitar with a rosewood neck (entire neck, not just fretboard) at some point in time.
#5
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this really doesn't stop my plans

Fixed for truth
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I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
#8
Don't buy logs -- once the CITES regulations have been incorporated into the rest that wood purveyors have to deal with, any short-term shortage will have been dealt with and things will be back to normal. There may be a price hike, but that, too, will have been accommodated by this time next year and you'll likely see only minor deviations in price by then.

Like the stock market, prices move on the news and settle in with some normalcy once everything has shaken out.

Rosewood users are already paying premium prices for fancy acoustic guitar sides and for Brazilian rosewood fretboards, and the same is true for bubinga; it was never a commodity wood.
#9
^ yeah odds are that's what'll happen

Quote by Våd Hamster
So, CITES is putting bubinga (which will effect some of you looking to buy custom guitars and fancy stock guitars) and 250 species of rosewood (that's everyone else) on their endangered species list.


Hahahaha well put
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Fixed for truth


hahahahahaha
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#10
Most of the rosewood scarcity involves just a few kinds of rosewood, but since it's virtually impossible for customs officials to identify those particular species quickly and easily, CITES has just lumped a whole genus together in their regulations.

The reason for the rosewood regulation has little to do with instrument use and a lot more to do with the high-end Chinese furniture market, which has nearly deforested rosewood from parts of Vietnam, etc.

So what's up at the moment is that if you have a shipment of rosewood coming into the US (for example) that will arrive after Jan 2, 2017, you'll have to have the required paperwork. If you have guitars that you're exporting that have rosewood parts, you'll have to have the required paperwork. If you own a personal guitar that you're shipping across country borders, it will have to have the proper certificate and the fees will have to have been paid (yes, there are fees). It's likely that if you apply now, your certificate stating that the rosewood on your guitar is pre-convention will arrive in a time period identified by months rather than days. If it's a new guitar and the rosewood shipped after Jan 2 there'll be a different certificate required signaling that it's post-convention wood.

Fish and Game officials will likely be tasked with enforcement, and this CITES regulation heaps work on them that they're honestly unprepared for (or funded for). Should be a major PIA for a while.
#12
Most of the incidents I've researched involving finished instruments crossing borders have been because some border enforcement agents- Americans and their foreign counterparts- didn't get proper training.
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#13
I prefer maple fretboards. I can only hope this would make them cheaper
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#14
^ i'd just be concerned it might end up being like the way a lot of the European-made stuff is "cheaper" here- it's actually more or less the same price (a lot of the times anyway), just the other stuff is more expensive so relatively it's cheaper
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#15
I guess I better start charging a premium for my RW board MIC LP copies
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#16
Isn't most rosewood on mid to low range guitars actually something different entirely and they just call it rosewood?
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#17
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma
Isn't most rosewood on mid to low range guitars actually something different entirely


Like what? You might find fancier looking pieces on more expensive guitars or rarer species of it like Brazillian but for the most part I think Indian RW is common for a lot of companies and not just the cheap ones.
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#18
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Like what? You might find fancier looking pieces on more expensive guitars or rarer species of it like Brazillian but for the most part I think Indian RW is common for a lot of companies and not just the cheap ones.


Maybe it was mahogany I was thinking of then? I definitely heard about some guitar wood they call it by a name and it is actually some other wood that is just very similar in most cheaper guitars.
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Peavey Vypyr 30.

Boss CH-1 Super Chorus
Boss DD-3 Digital Delay
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#19
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma
Maybe it was mahogany I was thinking of then? I definitely heard about some guitar wood they call it by a name and it is actually some other wood that is just very similar in most cheaper guitars.


Nato is something people call Asian Mahogany. It has very similar properties to mahogany and is often used as a replacement to mahogany in cheaper guitars but it isn't actually mahogany. That's probably moreso what you were thinking about.
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#20
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma
Maybe it was mahogany I was thinking of then? I definitely heard about some guitar wood they call it by a name and it is actually some other wood that is just very similar in most cheaper guitars.


That used to be the case with mahogany, but these days what Gibson used (Honduras mahogany) has been replanted and is growing both wild and on plantations through out Asia. Fiji and Indonesia are actually the largest exporters of the real stuff, so it's actually cheaper for asian manufacturers than it is for those in the US.

Another wood that's got an interesting naming convention is Spanish Cedar, which is neither Spanish nor cedar. It's actually a lightweight mahogany-type wood that's been used by some luthiers to sub for Honduras Mahogany in very high end hand-made '59 burst replicas.
#21
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Most of the incidents I've researched involving finished instruments crossing borders have been because some border enforcement agents- Americans and their foreign counterparts- didn't get proper training.


Obviously this law won't be in effect until Jan 2, so what's happened in the past may be different from what goes from here on.
OTOH, this presents a huge workload to an agency ill-prepared to handle it, and I don't anticipate we'll hear much from it.
#22
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Nato is something people call Asian Mahogany. It has very similar properties to mahogany and is often used as a replacement to mahogany in cheaper guitars but it isn't actually mahogany. That's probably moreso what you were thinking about.


Quote by dspellman
That used to be the case with mahogany, but these days what Gibson used (Honduras mahogany) has been replanted and is growing both wild and on plantations through out Asia. Fiji and Indonesia are actually the largest exporters of the real stuff, so it's actually cheaper for asian manufacturers than it is for those in the US.

Another wood that's got an interesting naming convention is Spanish Cedar, which is neither Spanish nor cedar. It's actually a lightweight mahogany-type wood that's been used by some luthiers to sub for Honduras Mahogany in very high end hand-made '59 burst replicas.


Yes I think it was these examples I have heard of, the Asia thing definitely makes sense since I have seen an increase in mahogany being used on import guitars from the far east.
My Gear:
Ibanez Jet King 2
Ibanez RGDIX7 MPB
Ibanez GRG 7221
OLP John Petrucci
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Squier Stratocaster (modified)
Harley Benton CLD-41S (Acoustic)

Peavey Vypyr 30.

Boss CH-1 Super Chorus
Boss DD-3 Digital Delay
Boss FRV-1 '63 Fender Reverb
#23
^ just bear in mind... some companies will say "mahogany" when it's nato or whatever. Just because it says mahogany doesn't mean it is, kind of thing. dspellman may well be correct, but certainly in years gone past I've seen guitars labelled as "mahogany" on one website and the exact same guitar labelled as "nato" on another one, for example.

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Nato is something people call Asian Mahogany. It has very similar properties to mahogany and is often used as a replacement to mahogany in cheaper guitars but it isn't actually mahogany. That's probably moreso what you were thinking about.


yeah and luan and meranti and stuff like that (it may well all be the same stuff, there's a page on wikipedia about it i think)

or there's african mahogany which is khaya i think- not quite mahogany, but not that far away either (in terms of how related its species is, I mean). it tends to be used on a bit more expensive guitars.
Quote by dspellman

Another wood that's got an interesting naming convention is Spanish Cedar, which is neither Spanish nor cedar.


Was it named by the same people who named the Vintage 30?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 15, 2016,
#24
i haven't smoked cigars in a few years, but all of my nice humi's are lined in Spanish Cedar bummer. that will be a pain in the ass to get another one someday.
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