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#1
Hi guys...

I am sure that the strat vs tele poll has been over discussed here and there... I am asking for a particular comparison here...

I am looking for my first single coil guitar... I am between a strat and tele.. I came across a couple of models which tend to have the features of both strat and tele in one guitar... I need your opinion on this concept first... is it really feasible to achieve the sound of both strat and tele with one guitar?

Now the specific guitars I am comparing...

1. Fender Mexican Deluxe Blackout Telecaster: Unlike ordinary tele, it has 3 pickups to give more versatility especially in achieving strat sound from a Tele



2. Fender Mexican Standard Stratocaster: A standard strat but modded to have a switch to enable neck & bridge pickups together (a setting usually in tele not in strat)



What do you think??
'12 Gibson '58 Re-issue
'14 Fender American Special Stratocaster
'14 Squier Classic Vibe 50's Telecaster
'05 Ibanez RG320FM (With Upgrades)
Laney IRT Studio (IRT112 Cab)
Dunlop Crybaby 535Q
BOSS GT-8
#2
I think you need one one of each

The Tele imo is just going to sound like a Tele with an extra pickup.
I've never tried one but it has Tele pickups which do sound different to Strat pickups.I think if you like it as a Tele with a middle pickup that's cool but I don't think its gonna sound like a Strat.Not to mention the body shape and thickness will have an impact even if a very small one.The Bridge will make it sound like a Tele too.
That Strat looks like a Gilmour copy.I think that has that mod too.Maybe someone made a Gilmour Strat from an mim.Looks cool but it deffo won't sound like a Tele.
I'd get either a Strat or Tele and then get the other later on.
I'm not saying don't get a three pickup Tele by the way if you like em.Just that it's not gonna be a Strat.
#3
since strats are superior in every way, get a strat and consider a SD Twangbanger bridge pick up. it's essentially a tele bridge pick up made to fit a strat single coil bridge cavity.

then have a push pull vol knob to activate the neck pick up only when pulled, so when you're using the bridge pup only, pull up on the volume knob and now you have bridge and neck. boom, tele.

at least that's what i did to essentially get both in one guitar. let's face it, the bridge pup of a strat all by itself, well, it sucks and we all know it. so i put the twangbanger in there since bridge only on tele is orgasimic.

good luck, i should have my guitar back after the mods are done next week sometime.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#4
Quote by gregs1020
let's face it, the bridge pup of a strat all by itself, well, it sucks and we all know it. :



you must not ever played a lead in a Band ?? ..... neck pup screams through the mix on a lead solo on a heavy channel


put me down for " get em both "
#5
Thanks guys... I lean to the fact that one guitar can't completely compensate the other.. and sooner or later I will need to buy the other guitar...
In this case, I think the strat would be my choice... at least if it didnt get the tele sound too.. it is a typical strat... unlike the Blackout Tele, if it didn't do the job of both, it is not a typical Tele... for example there is no (bridge & neck) position
'12 Gibson '58 Re-issue
'14 Fender American Special Stratocaster
'14 Squier Classic Vibe 50's Telecaster
'05 Ibanez RG320FM (With Upgrades)
Laney IRT Studio (IRT112 Cab)
Dunlop Crybaby 535Q
BOSS GT-8
#6
i've got a fretking tele-style guitar with a tele bridge pickup and strat middle and neck pickups. annoyingly it doesn't have a switch to enable bridge and neck together (and i haven't got round to adding it), but it does a pretty decent job of getting most of the most useful tele and strat tones (I haven't tried it but I assume greg's suggestion does a similarly decent job starting out from the strat side of things).

the problem is it's a bit of a compromise- you do get most of the most useful tones, but not all of them (plus you have to decide if you want a trem or not, you can't have both). if you're only going to have one guitar and need both strat and tele tones, it's great. if you play gigs where you can only bring the one guitar (or at least can only justify bringing one Fender-style guitar because you also need Gibson tones, say), then it's great. It's even pretty great if you're lazy like me and don't want to have to run and get another guitar when you're just sort of in the flow of playing. but you run the risk of not being 100% satisfied and eventually ending up with one tele/strat hybrid, and also a strat, and also a tele. if you're aware of that and don't care, then there's no problem

i'd be wary about that tele, though- i haven't tried it, but personally I'd reckon strat-style pickups in the middle and neck position would be more useful. For some reason Fender can't (or doesn't want to) admit that some players like the best bits of the strat and tele in the one guitar. Yet they'll fit a humbucker to a strat just fine.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#7
Dave_Mc

Which F-K is it?
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#8
Obviously the Stratocaster is the clear victor here, it's not even close.
Some see the glass half full, others see the glass half empty. Me? I see that the glass is refillable.
#9
I own both and appreciate both. My Strat is hard-tailed because my string bend style doesn't work well with a whammy bar.

The Strat: More comfortable to play, looks great, and I put a Rails PU in the bridge so it gets heavier rock tone. I rarely use the middle PU except out of phase with 5 way switch in pos 2.

The Tele: Looks kinda goofy to me and not as comfortable to play but... Both the neck and bridge PU have the most unique and excellent voice that always cuts through the mix. I get more compliments from fans while playing this guitar. If I could only own one, this would be it. There is just something about a Tele.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#10
Fumble fingers
Quote by Fumble fingers
you must not ever played a lead in a Band ?? ..... neck pup screams through the mix on a lead solo on a heavy channel

i said the bridge pick up.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#11
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Dave_Mc

Which F-K is it?


the blue label one- it's off the fret-king site now but it's the tele-shaped one in this review

https://issuu.com/john_hornby_skewes/docs/gb_may_08_fret_king

(i have the p90 strat one in that review as well )
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#12
I honestly doubt that, whichever one you choose, you will really feel the lack of the other. I own two Teles and zero Strats, because I find Strats uncomfortable to play and I love Teles. They will sound different - neither will be able to imitate the other perfectly but I don't think you'll really have a point with either where you can't get it to do what you need it to do.

That said, if you want either to do the other's job, I think you'll have an easier time finding Stratty neck pickups for Teles than Tele-y bridge pickups for Strat. But yeah no, at the end of the day the only absolute answers you'll get will be based on people's personal preferences. Deep down I want you to get the Tele because I like them better, but rather than telling you to do that I'm going to tell you to get the guitar you'd rather own. Do the thing I just said.
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#13
Dave_Mc

I remember you mentioned having the Super 60 SP...shortly after I mentioned I couldn't get one, and settled for the Super 60 HB version.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

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Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#14
It really depends. There are all kinds of chimera Strat/Tele designs out there, some better than others. Dave_MC. mentioned Fret-Kings. Here are others:

Reverend
https://reverb.com/item/3121500-reverend-six-gun-le-2010-cream-black
https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=reverend%20eastsider%20s

Godin
http://www.godinguitars.com/godinpassioncustom_swampash_41404_41398.html
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#15
Quote by dannyalcatraz
It really depends. There are all kinds of chimera Strat/Tele designs out there, some better than others. Dave_MC. mentioned Fret-Kings. Here are others:

Reverend
https://reverb.com/item/3121500-reverend-six-gun-le-2010-cream-black
https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=reverend%20eastsider%20s

Godin
http://www.godinguitars.com/godinpassioncustom_swampash_41404_41398.html
Yeah, of course. I mean that if it's between the two models in the OP (which, as far as I can tell, it is) the Tele would probably be easier to turn into such a "chimera" than the Strat.
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#16
Teles are like Corvettes. They perform great, are a staple, and are the most reliable car to ever lay down a run under 12 seconds on the quarter mile. The only problem is everyone and their mother has one.

Stratocasters are like vintage E-type Jaguars. They're no where near as reliable, but you're going to look damned good having one hell of a time driving it down the coast.

Telecaster if you need a workhorse and like a girl who wants you to pull her hair a bit. Stratocaster if you're into little black dresses and sunglasses at night.
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#17
Quote by JustRooster
The only problem is everyone and their mother has one.
I mean that's kind of true for both, isn't it?
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#18
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I mean that's kind of true for both, isn't it?


If a guy sees another guy in an identical E-type, he'd tip his cap at him. When two Corvette owners cross paths they're just worried about who's faster. I've known enough country pickers to feel as if i'm pretty correct in this.
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#19
Quote by JustRooster
If a guy sees another guy in an identical E-type, he'd tip his cap at him. When two Corvette owners cross paths they're just worried about who's faster. I've known enough country pickers to feel as if i'm pretty correct in this.
I mean, sure Just that Strats and Teles are both ubiquitous in their various guises.
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#20
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I mean, sure Just that Strats and Teles are both ubiquitous in their various guises.


They're both equally proliferated, yeah. I'm basically just perpetuating stereotypes.
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#21
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#22
Quote by Dave_Mc
i'd be wary about that tele, though- i haven't tried it, but personally I'd reckon strat-style pickups in the middle and neck position would be more useful. For some reason Fender can't (or doesn't want to) admit that some players like the best bits of the strat and tele in the one guitar. Yet they'll fit a humbucker to a strat just fine.

A humbucker in a Strat doesn't affect the most used positions. An HSS Strat gets 3.5 of the 5 sounds in a traditional Strat. It gets rid of the least used pickup option. The middle position of a Tele is a coveted sound. An SSS Tele with Strat pickups in the neck in middle only gets 1 of the 3 Tele sounds. And Fender has made a bunch of Nashville Teles over the years. But they're much less popular than regular Strats and Teles.
#23
Well I think I am 100% passing on the Tele and most probably will pass on the Strat as well... I think I will wait for a real Tele (2 pickups) as that was my original target !
'12 Gibson '58 Re-issue
'14 Fender American Special Stratocaster
'14 Squier Classic Vibe 50's Telecaster
'05 Ibanez RG320FM (With Upgrades)
Laney IRT Studio (IRT112 Cab)
Dunlop Crybaby 535Q
BOSS GT-8
#24
I would go for the strat....and if I didn't get the strat I would buy a les paul
Wise man once said, " If you ever get lost in the woods, just start jacking off someone will see you."
#25
Quote by mockbel
Well I think I am 100% passing on the Tele and most probably will pass on the Strat as well... I think I will wait for a real Tele (2 pickups) as that was my original target !

Do it.



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Last edited by K33nbl4d3 at Dec 12, 2016,
#26
Quote by K33nbl4d3
But yeah no


Brilliant I post like that too a lot of the time

Seriously, though, I think it just depends on preference. I like both strats and teles and I'd kind of miss having both (or at the very least, a decent mix of the two like my fretking).

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Dave_Mc

I remember you mentioned having the Super 60 SP...shortly after I mentioned I couldn't get one, and settled for the Super 60 HB version.


Yeah. The humbucker one I'm guessing is pretty nice too (you got the green one, didn't you? I liked that colour a lot). The P90 sort of kills position 4, but then again I think the humbucker version you have doesn't have an auto-split for position 4, so I doubt there's much difference in that respect.

Quote by JustRooster
They're both equally proliferated, yeah. I'm basically just perpetuating stereotypes.


Quote by JELIFISH19
A humbucker in a Strat doesn't affect the most used positions. An HSS Strat gets 3.5 of the 5 sounds in a traditional Strat. It gets rid of the least used pickup option. The middle position of a Tele is a coveted sound. An SSS Tele with Strat pickups in the neck in middle only gets 1 of the 3 Tele sounds. And Fender has made a bunch of Nashville Teles over the years. But they're much less popular than regular Strats and Teles.


I dunno. It depends on what you mean by "most used positions". Neck pickup, sure. For me the next most-used would likely be bridge + middle together (well, it would likely be bridge alone, I suppose, but if I'm getting an HSS strat I think it's fair to assume that the person prefers the sound of a bridge humbucker to a bridge strat single coil). I might be strange in that, I guess a lot of other players might use neck + middle together as the next most-used one. But for me, while I agree you can absolutely get 60% of strat tones pretty much bang-on, I still sort of miss bridge + middle- so in that respect there's little difference between HSS and the tele-strat hybrids I was talking about.

Plus, I mean, you could say that a tele-strat hybrid (with tele bridge pickup and strat neck and middle pickups) gets 3 out of the 5 strat tones too (the most-used ones too, at least in your opinion ), it also gets bridge + middle at least as accurately as an HSS strat (probably slightly more so, seeing as how it's a "real" single coil, it just is a bit twangier because of the tele bridge pickup), and it gets arguably the most useful tele tone (bridge pickup alone). With some fancy wiring (or just picking a guitar which has it stock) you can also get bridge + neck together- not quite the same as on a tele, since you have the strat neck pickup, but I'm guessing it's not going to be a million miles away either. You're getting 60% of strat tones (more or less) bang-on, 33% of tele tones more or less bang-on, and a further 20% of strat tones, and 33% of tele tones pretty decently- not perfect, but better than on a HSS strat.

That's not too bad, if you ask me.

(I just noticed you said an HSS strat gets "3.5 of the 5 strat tones"- maybe that's a typo but if it's not I'm not quite sure what you mean by that )

Yeah the Nashville Tele suffers (IMO) because if has a tele neck pickup- while I think the tele neck pickup is underrated, in a "do-it-all" guitar it's probably the option to ditch in favour of the (usually) much more useful strat neck pickup. Also, I don't think the Nashville tele has the option for bridge and neck pickups together, which is kind of bizarre when you've gone to the bother of putting a tele neck pickup in there. Not terribly surprising it's not that popular, in my opinion anyway. Great concept, poorly executed, at least in my opinion.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#27
Quote by Dave_Mc
Brilliant I post like that too a lot of the time
I mean I don't know whether it comes across in text but the phrase "But yeah no" has a very definite meaning and tone of voice in my head
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#28
same here
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#29
Dave_Mc

Yeah, my Super 60 HB is the surfalicious seafoam green. Still might track down one of F-K's P90 Stratclones of some kind. Got this Corona in my sights:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282254985908?ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F0%252Fe11021.m43.l3160%252F7%253Feuid%253D1c8b03d1b8d6449caf9bfabffc386e37%2526bu%253D44167666185%2526loc%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252F282254985908%2526exe%253D15080%2526ext%253D38986%2526sojTags%253Dexe%253Dexe%252Cext%253Dext%252Cbu%253Dbu%2526srcrot%253De11021.m43.l3160%2526rvr_id%253D0&ul_noapp=true

...but I'd probably still prefer a metallic orange Super 60 SP like I wanted in the first place.

Meanwhile, I'd just like to point out the Reverend Eastsider has a 5-position switch...
http://www.reverendguitars.com/instrument/eastsider-s/
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#30
haha mine's the orange one

and yeah that reverend has the option of bridge and neck pickups together. and a trem. pretty nice.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#31
Dave_Mc
RE: your Super 60 SP



RE: Reverend Eastsider S

Yeah, that's a nice bit of kit. It's not high on my Reverend G.A.S. list, but...
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#32


Yeah, I'm just not mad keen on signature models. Other than that, that reverend is pretty sweet. Also they're quite expensive here, and I've never tried one- if they were a similar amount of money to what my fretkings cost, I'd be tempted (at least if I could try them first).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
I'm not a fan of sig models per se.

But if a guitar has a good combination of quality, aesthetics, features and price, I don't care if it's a sig or not. Especially if I can't find a similar non-sig guitar for a better price.

Even though I knew some of the songs he played, I didn't know Rick Vito by name until AFTER I bought one of his Reverend sig models. And several of Rev's sigs tend towards the unusual...

To be completely honest, I do buy guitars used by my heroes- just not sig versions. I have a Dean Cadillac and a couple Fernandes Ravelles in part because of who played them...but I wouldn't have them if I didn't think they kicked ass.

So there are some site on my G.A.S. list- I would like a Brian May Special, for instance. But near as I can tell, almost all of the other sigs on my list are Reverends: another Rick Vito, Billy Corgan's, Reeves Gabrels', and a couple of Pete Andersons. Maybe a M'shell Ndegeocello bass.

OTOH, anyone ever buy a "Les Paul"?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#34
K33nbl4d3 I have a 1984 Yamaha SJ550. Basically a Tele with dual humbuckers and a coil tap. Haven't found a strat that could keep up with it. Plays blues, jazz, funk, rock and probably country (not my style) without any issues. Just replaced the neck on it as I had played the damn frets off..........
#35
Quote by dannyalcatraz
I'm not a fan of sig models per se.

But if a guitar has a good combination of quality, aesthetics, features and price, I don't care if it's a sig or not. Especially if I can't find a similar non-sig guitar for a better price.

Even though I knew some of the songs he played, I didn't know Rick Vito by name until AFTER I bought one of his Reverend sig models. And several of Rev's sigs tend towards the unusual...

To be completely honest, I do buy guitars used by my heroes- just not sig versions. I have a Dean Cadillac and a couple Fernandes Ravelles in part because of who played them...but I wouldn't have them if I didn't think they kicked ass.

So there are some site on my G.A.S. list- I would like a Brian May Special, for instance. But near as I can tell, almost all of the other sigs on my list are Reverends: another Rick Vito, Billy Corgan's, Reeves Gabrels', and a couple of Pete Andersons. Maybe a M'shell Ndegeocello bass.

OTOH, anyone ever buy a "Les Paul"?


oh yeah absolutely, a lot of the "non-signature" guitars i have i have because one of my favourite players played one

and a couple of my guitars are pretty much sigs in all but name (musicman axis, for example), so i'm sort of getting off there on a technicality

again that seems ok to me but i agree it's total nonsense from a logical point of view. you're totally correct, in other words, and i agree that if you came across something which was perfect apart from being a sig it's probably biting off your nose to spite your face not getting it...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
Quote by Dave_Mc
oh yeah absolutely, a lot of the "non-signature" guitars i have i have because one of my favourite players played one

and a couple of my guitars are pretty much sigs in all but name (musicman axis, for example), so i'm sort of getting off there on a technicality

again that seems ok to me but i agree it's total nonsense from a logical point of view. you're totally correct, in other words, and i agree that if you came across something which was perfect apart from being a sig it's probably biting off your nose to spite your face not getting it...
True.I don't usually get sigs but that Zach Myers semi hollow PRS in the greeny bluey colour looks sweet.I'd deffo have one.I've never heard of the guy but his guitar is kind of on my gas list.
#37
haha
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#38
Quote by marshland1
I would go for the strat....and if I didn't get the strat I would buy a les paul


Yeah I am a Les Paul freak too
but before buying another Les Paul I believe I need to fill the gap of "single coil guitar" that I have...
'12 Gibson '58 Re-issue
'14 Fender American Special Stratocaster
'14 Squier Classic Vibe 50's Telecaster
'05 Ibanez RG320FM (With Upgrades)
Laney IRT Studio (IRT112 Cab)
Dunlop Crybaby 535Q
BOSS GT-8
#39
mockbel

Buy a LP with P90s.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#40
^ not sure p90s would really work if by "single coil" he really means "fender-style single coil". I know i keep saying this but p90s sound to me much more in the gibson camp tonewise than fender. they don't really sound (to me anyway) like what most people mean by single coils (i.e. strat or tele type pickups).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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