#1
Hey guys,

3 days ago I first started to learn my guitar music theory, and i'm feeling really motivated to learn more.
Especially if i got my stuff right....
I've written this little Melodic Death metal lead piece and according to my knowledge it is in Dorian F scale.
Can someone please confirm this?

I've added the guitar pro tab in this post, but for those who don't have guitar pro or are to lazy / uninterested here's just the notes i've used on tab:


D TUNING!

D |-----------------------------------------------|
A |-------15--13----------------------------------|
F |--12------------15--14-------------------------|
C |-----------------------------15----------------|
G |-----------------------------------------------|
D |-----------------------------------------------|


Please note that these are just the notes used not the track :*)

Also..
Got any ideas to make this lead more awesome? Any advice on some things i could do to perhaps spice it up or make it better?

Thank!
Attachments:
MeloDeath.gpx
#2
Sounds like F minor. A distinctive feature of Dorian mode is the natural 6. There are no 6's in this piece.
#3
Quote by NeoMvsEu
Sounds like F minor. A distinctive feature of Dorian mode is the natural 6. There are no 6's in this piece.


hm, ok so here is how i came to F dorian:

D |-----------------------------------------------|
A |-------C---A#-------------------------------|
F |--F------------G#--G-----------------------|
C |-----------------------------D#--------------|
G |-----------------------------------------------|
D |-----------------------------------------------|

F Dorian Scale:

F G G# A# C D D# F
F G G# A# C -- D# -- :::: Notes used

Or am i making a big mistake here?
Last edited by martin.ouwehand at Dec 16, 2016,
#4
Start with the right letters. All letters A-G have to occur in a diatonic scale:

F G A B C D E F

Then assign sharps and/or flats:

Minor

F G Ab Bb C Db Eb F
 W H  W  W H  W  W


Dorian

F G Ab Bb C D Eb F
 W H  W  W W H  W


Your notes: F C Bb Ab G Eb are included in both. There is no b6/natural 6, which is the defining tone between minor and Dorian, so the easiest analysis is to use minor, because modes really aren't as commonly used as many guitarists make them out to be.

You can borrow chords (harmonic information) that could make the D (natural 6) useful, but until it becomes a persistent note in something without tonal harmonic function, it's simply F minor.
#5
NeoMvsEu
Loud and clear, Thank you
I just figured out that indeed my notes are also in the minor scale, thanks for the info of natural 6!
#6
Just would like to add, after playing dorian F scale, i notice that the sound of that scale is somewhat off from the sound of my tab, even though it has the same notes, it just does not fit for some reason.
Compared to minor scale..
#9
Quote by martin.ouwehand
Just would like to add, after playing dorian F scale, i notice that the sound of that scale is somewhat off from the sound of my tab, even though it has the same notes, it just does not fit for some reason.
Compared to minor scale..
You're saying that it the (natural) minor scale fits better? That would make it aeolian rather than dorian, but plain "minor" is a less contentious term.

FWIW, it's common for minor scale riffs and licks to simply omit the 6th - or to add the 2nd to the minor pent - which is what yours does. Yours is a nice little melodic lick, but there's nothing particularly metal about it (outside of any other context) - it's quite sweet sounding, and could fit any genre - and I don't know how you could make it more awesome. If it was played by a distorted bass, at high volume, that might do the trick!
Last edited by jongtr at Dec 17, 2016,
#10
Sounds metal enough to me!
I would just 'standardise' the lick - you mostly have the note at 12 as a pedal tone but sometimes go to 10 and it's a bit haphazard as to when that occurs. Also did you think of starting it off the beat? When I first listened to it that's how I heard it and I really had to fight to hear it as you've written it. So the highest notes at 15 and 13 would be on the beat, and the final four notes maybe sound better starting on the beat with the final F being on the last eighth note of the bar.
Could you add a harmony, maybe a lower one as the line is quite high to start with?

Edit: add a harmony a fourth below and then you will need to use a D, so you'll get F Dorian!
Last edited by NSpen1 at Dec 17, 2016,
#11
Okay guys, i've been very busy and here is the updated version of my tab, now with rythm and drums added, and some little changes to the lead part.
I'm just not very sure the drums are right, but i'm no drummer and having a hard time figuring it out :s
Quote by NSpen1
Sounds metal enough to me!
I would just 'standardise' the lick - you mostly have the note at 12 as a pedal tone but sometimes go to 10 and it's a bit haphazard as to when that occurs. Also did you think of starting it off the beat? When I first listened to it that's how I heard it and I really had to fight to hear it as you've written it. So the highest notes at 15 and 13 would be on the beat, and the final four notes maybe sound better starting on the beat with the final F being on the last eighth note of the bar.
Could you add a harmony, maybe a lower one as the line is quite high to start with?

Edit: add a harmony a fourth below and then you will need to use a D, so you'll get F Dorian!

First, thanks for liking it
Still a noob.. what do you mean exactly by adding a harmonya fourth below?


Anyway, please give my new tab a listen and tell me what you guys think of it!
Attachments:
MeloDeath.gpx
Last edited by martin.ouwehand at Dec 17, 2016,
#12
martin.ouwehand

What I mean by adding a harmony below is to add another guitar part an interval of a (perfect) fourth below the main line. All that means is you take your F minor scale and count:
F   G   Ab  Bb
1st 2nd 3rd 4th

So Bb is a fourth above F; the interval equals 2 and a half tones or 5 frets on the guitar. If we want a hamony below we need to go that distance downwards, so an F becomes a C, an Eb becomes a Bb, etc. This is actually easy on a guitar because you can just move one string down and play at the same frets. Having said that, I haven't tabbed it exactly like that just for ease of playing. But every note in the harmony part is the equivalent of 5 frets below the lead guitar part. But what happens when we move the G down a fourth? We get a D which is the major 6th so that's where a possible Dorian sound comes in.
(You can also have an augmented fourth but you don't need to know about that because we're only going to be using perfect fourths.)

Note, I don't have Guitar Pro 6 so I had to do this on TuxGuitar so apologies if it makes anything look strange. It's a free program but if you don't have it or want to download it I've also saved it as a gp5 file. Again, hopefully that looks ok in GP6.
I made the lead part so it alternates between including the Eb along with the F, or having just F's. You could arrange it like that or play it with all of one pattern or the other, plus the notes you added, whatever sounds best to you. And you may or may not like the sound of it with the harmony, but there are other possibilities for harmonies or just play the lead part an octave lower, if you wanted to add another guitar part.
Final note - I added the key signature for F minor = 4 flats. This works in TuxGuitar but because of the way GP5 treats tuned down guitars it displays the notation as if it was in standard, therefore you have to make it G minor = 2 flats. I'm not sure how GP6 works, but you'll know it has the correct key signature when none of the notes are displayed as sharp or flat (you'll get a D natural in the harmony only).

I'm glad you said that about the drums! I thought when I first heard it that it was pretty random, then it started to make a bit more sense ... I'm not a drummer either but I'm learning a bit through trying to transcribe some drum parts. It depends on what effect you're trying to achieve of course, but I could offer some suggestions.
You might like to make the bass drum play constant eighth notes throughout. Do you really need the pedal hi-hat (apart from the intro count in)? It seems to get lost in there amongst the cymbals. Make sure your cymbal accents are where you want them to be to match up with the riff. I would suggest for each two bar pattern:
Bar 1 - on the 4th and 8th eighth notes
Bar 2 - on the 4th, 5th and 8th eighth notes
except for the final bar where the guitar ends with a quarter note, make the cymbal match that also.
Finally (finally!), it will be more readable if you arrange the drums on the lines in a way that represents their position in the drumkit, e.g. bass drums on the lowest line, cymbals on the two highest, snare around the middle, etc.
Attachments:
115992__MeloDeath-1.gp5
#14
If you've been learning theory for all of three days there's absolutely no point worrying about modes yet, you're miles away from being able to understand or use them.

You need to walk before you can run, focus on the basics for the time being.
Actually called Mark!

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#15
The chords in the background are Bb5 C5 Db5 Eb5 and F5. Why F Dorian doesn't seem to fit over it is because there is a Db chord. The chord progression just doesn't sound like Dorian at all - it's basic minor key stuff. It all really comes down to harmony.

Even if you are going to harmonize the melody with perfect fourths only (and because of that you end up using a D natural), it still doesn't make it sound like F Dorian because of the chords in the background. The D will not be heard as part of the "scale", it will be heard as an accidental.
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Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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#16
/\ Sure, I should have said that harmonizing it in perfect fourths gives a D natural, which gives you all the notes of an F Dorian scale, not that it actually is F Dorian. I just thought it was interesting that the original post was is this F Dorian?, then the answer was no, F minor, but if you harmonize it like that you get the notes from F Dorian again.

Anyway, I did a basic pattern for the drum part which I think works, you can add some stuff or change which cymbals are hit. (To be honest, I made it all the china cymbal because the splash sounds so quietly in GP5!) Attached ...
Attachments:
MeloDeath-1.gp5
#17
NSpen1

I really like how you did that harmony guitar!

Well guys, thanks for the help so far!
but my question is answered, this song is not in dorian but minor so, i'll be focussing on that for now.
Last edited by martin.ouwehand at Dec 18, 2016,