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#1
Hey guys -- long story short, I'm shopping for a used 6505 head. No problem finding them, actually. My issue is that I want one that was made in the U.S. For a variety of reasons, I will not buy another amp made in China. It's not that I haven anything against China -- I just don't believe their quality is up to snuff and I'm against sending American jobs overseas. So, anybody know when the flagship line of Peavey amps finally made the switch overseas?
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#2
Quote by KailM
It's not that I haven anything against China -- I just don't believe their quality is up to snuff and I'm against sending American jobs overseas.


With all due respect (and with no intention of getting political, here) -- that statement shows a simplistic lack of understanding of what's happening in the US on several levels.

One, Peavey has been bleeding money for years, and was pretty much heading out of business, which would have eliminated jobs anyway.

Two, the US has become more of a technical manufacturing center. Thanks to NAFTA and other freetrade agreements that have leveled the playing field, US companies have been able to concentrate on manufacturing that requires more expertise and that *can't* be shipped overseas. The fact is, employers have more job openings than they can fill; they're actually just having a hard time finding people *qualified* to fill them. The answer is one that Carrier's parent company recognized long ago, and so they've been offering a full four years worth of additional technical and educational training to their workers. The jobs that are disappearing are the bottom-feeder jobs, for the most part; simple, task-oriented and repetitive (like guitar manufacturing). But others are available.

Third, Chinese quality is as good as anyone else's *if* there's a requirement for quality and if the process is monitored by their customers. Computers are a good example of that (chances are really good that you're typing your reply on chinese-sourced hardware).
#3
KailM

I thought all the 6505 heads were still made in the USA. Trying to verify that now. The 112 combo and maybe the mini and other variants are made in China.

I don't want to get all political either but here is my .311 cents

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to purchase a USA assembled product (forget about components for a minute) Yes, 'bottom feeder' jobs may have been more impacted but that is basically the middle class - which by my analysis is shrinking. Some guitars and guitar amplifiers are actually hand built by extremely gifted luthiers and I think they would take offense to their craft being called simple, task oriented and repetitive. My belief, is that for your average product side by side comparison, Chinese mass produced stuff is crap and their QC is subpar.

YMMV
#4
OK - maybe the heads are now made in China too. Can't really tell. It should say on the back though where it is made.


Interesting thread here and I just realized our very own KailM posted in it

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=303707
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Dec 17, 2016,
#5
Quote by dspellman
With all due respect (and with no intention of getting political, here) -- that statement shows a simplistic lack of understanding of what's happening in the US on several levels.

One, Peavey has been bleeding money for years, and was pretty much heading out of business, which would have eliminated jobs anyway.

Two, the US has become more of a technical manufacturing center. Thanks to NAFTA and other freetrade agreements that have leveled the playing field, US companies have been able to concentrate on manufacturing that requires more expertise and that *can't* be shipped overseas. The fact is, employers have more job openings than they can fill; they're actually just having a hard time finding people *qualified* to fill them. The answer is one that Carrier's parent company recognized long ago, and so they've been offering a full four years worth of additional technical and educational training to their workers. The jobs that are disappearing are the bottom-feeder jobs, for the most part; simple, task-oriented and repetitive (like guitar manufacturing). But others are available.

Third, Chinese quality is as good as anyone else's *if* there's a requirement for quality and if the process is monitored by their customers. Computers are a good example of that (chances are really good that you're typing your reply on chinese-sourced hardware).


While all of that is interesting and probably true, I still don't like what's happening. So what if we have more jobs that require a higher level of education? We need jobs at all levels. Anyway, my 6505+112 was made in China, and though I've gotten 6 years or so of use out of it and loved the tone -- it's broken down again now and I don't really want to deal with it anymore. Looking inside it, it really doesn't seem like the build quality is as high as that of my U.S.-made Classic 30. Whether Peavey still has the intended quality controls in place or not, I don't think their Chinese products are as good. I do still very much want the 6505 tone though, hence my effort to find one that was made in the U.S.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#6
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
OK - maybe the heads are now made in China too. Can't really tell. Is should say on the back though where it is made.


Interesting thread here and I just realized our very own KailM posted in it

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=303707


Yeah, they're all made there now. And checking around lately, it seems like the prices of new models have actually gone UP. I'm kind of changing my tune now compared to what I posted on that thread, haha. My 112 has had a fair number of issues, actually. I've always been able to fix them, but now I can't even get it to power up without blowing a fuse. I've exhausted all that I know how to diagnose, and there's nobody around me that knows how to fix an amp. To top it off, when taking it apart recently, the tabs that supply the LED logo broke off again for about the 4th time. Some of the solder joints in the amp just don't seem very high-quality to me, not that I'm awesome at soldering. I'm just hesitant to send it off to Peavey or out of town at least, spending probably $200+ on an amp that cost $600 new. Based on everything I've ever heard -- the U.S. made 6505 heads are pretty near bomb-proof.

I'd really like to support Mesa but haven't played any of their amps that quite do it for me like the 6505. They're just a bit out of my price range as well. But I respect that company for sticking with the U.S., and I'm sure their prices are fair for what you get.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
Last edited by KailM at Dec 17, 2016,
#7
The 6505+ 112 combo has always been made in China since its incarnation. The rest of the series moved over to China sometime within the last 5 years or so.

In comparison to many other Chinese made amps, Peavey's are above the bar. However if you were to open up a Chinese made 6505 and put it side by side with a USA made one, you would see differences in circuitry. i.e. cheaper PCBs, resistors, capacitors, and transformers, thinner gauge wires, etc. Many of these components may haven easily come from China in the US variant, however they were of better quality.

P.S. - LOVE my USA 6505+ head. I've had and enjoyed many different amps, but out of all of them I'd still pick it, with my "custom" tube setup, if I had to choose one amp. Though I'm dying to try a Bogner Hylios ...
Last edited by Xander_X at Dec 17, 2016,
#9
Yeah it's unfortunate that Peavey no longer really makes USA amps anymore.

This is why I may well go EVH with my next purchase. I know they'e Mexican-made, but they're not made by Peavey with their horrid living conditions and shit. My modded 6505+ sounds awesome but I never actually paid any money to Peavey because I got the amp used.
Roses are red
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#10
KailM - why don't you just pick up a used US made 6505?


PS - I got my Mesa Rectoverb head for $490. I prefer it over a 6505 for brutz and it has pretty damn nice cleans. More flexibility. It is a 50w Single Rec.

There is also the JSX, 5150 obviously, and I've seen the EVH 5153 down in that ballpark price wise as well.
#11
USED Bandit combo silver or red stripe, I have 2 Envoy 110 made in USA.. teal stripe is first generation and a silver stripe second generation (modded with 12" Peavey speaker).. It is a rarity finding manufacturer in USA.. it's all about profits and keeping cost low.. big corporations are taking advantage of trade loop holes, opening branches overseas and transferring the work there.. in order to maintain some competitiveness is pricing a lot of brands find existing factories that produce quality product at least cost.. I do believe quality has improved but the factories product overall fit and finish depends on how much the guitar brand is willing to spend... if you pay less on the material and workmanship, you get same produced.. like slogan "you get what you pay for". It's simple economics.

Of all the import guitars, I would place Japan made at the top.. specially Matsumoku.. Fujigen.. Kasuga.. Then there is the Korean made..

Forgot to mention. Some older Peavey Supreme head are made in USA
I have Washburn guitars 'Maverick Series' and bass 'Bantam Series' and a few pedals and amps, but man I wish to have more patience and drive practicing my playing, if it's equal to the modding itch, then I'm golden.
Last edited by psp742 at Dec 18, 2016,
#12
About 2009 I believe, Actually I have to give Peavey some kudos, as they were the last of the holdouts to keeping manufacturing in the US, and they bled out a lot of money doing so, But alas to keep from going under it had to be done, Made In China, So unless you plan to shell out the bucks for a Mesa, Soldano, or other high end boutique amp then except the fact its made in Asia, Mexico or Indonesia, And then there's also the fact that even if made in the US many of its components are still made off shore and assembled in the US, So what does made in the USA really mean these days, Hell today more of a Toyota is made in the US than a Chevy, I have one of the old Kustom Double Cross half stacks and at least they're honest about it, Made in the USA with US and imported parts. Actually designed by Jim Brown who designed the 6505 and 5150, If into high gain metal tones that's what you really want, Good luck finding one though,
#13
Grawgos i only caught a little bit of that episode and it didn't look like a good promo spot for Peavey.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#14
Quote by gregs1020
Grawgos i only caught a little bit of that episode and it didn't look like a good promo spot for Peavey.


No it wasn't. They basically lied to and screwed their employees. They talked one guy into staying, after he got a new job and gave notice, then gave him a 60 day notice a few days later. So the poor bastard lost his new job and his peavey job.

I don't think I'd ever buy anything from them. I understand if the company is in financial trouble, but don't lie to your employees and treat them like shit. Those people worked there a long time and didn't deserve that.
#16
^^^Too late -- I just ordered a 2013 6505 head with brand new JJ tubes. Says "made in the USA" on the back.

Thanks for the input though guys. Will post a NAD when it arrives.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#17
Awesome. The JJs are a bit too dark sounding for my taste. But if you don't like them, they're easy to swap out.
#19
i was under the impression that the fallen angels were built really, really badly
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
I wonder if people in Japan and Europe go ' Oh man I want a sweet piece of gear but it HAS to be made in estonia or made in nara prefecture or else NO DICE'


Quote by Dave_Mc
i was under the impression that the fallen angels were built really, really badly


Me too
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
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#22
no i mean i've come across people who know what they're talking about (amp tech types) who said they were terrible

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I wonder if people in Japan and Europe go ' Oh man I want a sweet piece of gear but it HAS to be made in estonia or made in nara prefecture or else NO DICE'


nah they generally want it to be made in the USA too
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
I want my gear to be built in countries with better reputation for quality and hopefully backed with the right certifications.
Overall, Chinese labor is hit/miss and you never know what is happening in these factories in terms of quality and human abuses as it is all hush hush.
They incarcerate people and send them to prison labor camps where they work their sentence making shoes for the USA, or junk for the $1 stores.
They have no problem using child labor. A lot of their industry uses dormitories where the workers are in slave-like labor camps and have a break maybe 1 day of the month. So it makes one wary to purchase from China, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc for that matter.

About the Fallen Angel - my tech was impressed, he expected a lot worse quality in terms of parts than what he saw in there. That's been a solid amp overall. I bought it on a whim as backup and it has served me well...that and a Peavey Windsor which failed pretty much as soon as the warranty ran out are the only 3rd world amps that I own.

I definitely notice a drop in the quality and the sound changed a bit in the PEaveys and the Marshalls after the move to China, they're definitely using lower grade parts. My tech said that the parts used in new Marshalls are akin to home stereo equipment. Knowing that, I still recommend the DSL40C as unfortunately there isn't much in that price range that will beat it.
#24
Quote by Dave_Mc
no i mean i've come across people who know what they're talking about (amp tech types) who said they were terrible


nah they generally want it to be made in the USA too


They can keep their USA guitars. I'll grab a Maybach and a Navigator instead!
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#25
Quote by diabolical
I want my gear to be built in countries with better reputation for quality and hopefully backed with the right certifications.
Overall, Chinese labor is hit/miss and you never know what is happening in these factories in terms of quality and human abuses as it is all hush hush.
They incarcerate people and send them to prison labor camps where they work their sentence making shoes for the USA, or junk for the $1 stores.
They have no problem using child labor. A lot of their industry uses dormitories where the workers are in slave-like labor camps and have a break maybe 1 day of the month. So it makes one wary to purchase from China, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc for that matter.

About the Fallen Angel - my tech was impressed, he expected a lot worse quality in terms of parts than what he saw in there. That's been a solid amp overall. I bought it on a whim as backup and it has served me well...that and a Peavey Windsor which failed pretty much as soon as the warranty ran out are the only 3rd world amps that I own.

I definitely notice a drop in the quality and the sound changed a bit in the PEaveys and the Marshalls after the move to China, they're definitely using lower grade parts. My tech said that the parts used in new Marshalls are akin to home stereo equipment. Knowing that, I still recommend the DSL40C as unfortunately there isn't much in that price range that will beat it.


this perception of China is rather dated and not so true these days. My brother lives and works in China and has for a number of years. he's been to the Epiphone plant and I believe to the plant that makes Peavey amps as well. neither is filled with child labor or forced labor. while it's true that working conditions aren't up to US standards they are higher than you might think.. they also pay more than pennies as well. keep in mind that the cost of living there is way lower than here as well.

Peavey and Marshall amps are built to a price point plain and simple. the 6505 112 and Valveking are cheap amps meant to serve the lower end of the tube amp market. a US made amp with those features would cost twice as much and not be competitive. it is a shame that Peavey had to move production overseas as did Marshall and to a lesser extent Fender. reality is though that US workers want big money even the guy flipping burgers at McDonalds wants real money for a simple job. can't keep prices low and pay big that's Business 101.
#26
I think it is more of a case of a 400% profit versus a 40% profit per product sold, especially with guitars there's really no justification on some of these higher end prices, for the most part after $2000 the market is pretty much crazy.

BTW - China forces prisoners to donate organs, so how is my perception wrong? A lot of people are falsely incarcerated or given higher sentences in order to work in the prison factory slave camps for free. It was on the news again this week.

Maybe not on the lower end amps, but Peavey sold quite a few heads at $1000+ a piece and were doing good, had strong following. I think the company was most likely artificially bankrupt so it could move to China and the employee pensions can go to hell...pretty much what GM and Chrysler did with most of their US workforce. I remember reading that Chrysler's parent investment company had enough to bail out the manufacturer and turn a profit but chose to bankrupt it as that way they'd get a government bailout and restructure pretty much for free. Walls Street economics 101 I guess

Anyway - if you want real Marshall and Fender quality clones, they are available, some even in PTP handmade configurations.
I had a chance to check out a Metropoulos recently and whoa! That's the original Marshall sound, something that even Marshall cant seem to be able to do nowadays

Friedman is getting there in popularity as well, and so on...

I think the problem with Peavey is that they were never the "go to" amp of choice, even most high gain players would pick something else if money were no object. The US Made ones were great workhorses. I have their Classic 50/50 power amp that has done about 15 years worth of work with one tube change and works great and sounds great still. I got it cause I couldn't afford the Mesa Simulclass 2:90.
#28
Outsourcing has nothing to do with necessity and everything to do with shafting workers and maximising share value for shareholders - let's not pretend all these companies "had" to start making cheap products with third world labour.... it was a choice.

It's also completely absurd that it can be cheaper to make something halfway accross the world and ship it to north america on a ship than to simply make it here. It's so wastful.
#29
Quote by diabolical
I think it is more of a case of a 400% profit versus a 40% profit per product sold, especially with guitars there's really no justification on some of these higher end prices, for the most part after $2000 the market is pretty much crazy.

BTW - China forces prisoners to donate organs, so how is my perception wrong? A lot of people are falsely incarcerated or given higher sentences in order to work in the prison factory slave camps for free. It was on the news again this week.

Maybe not on the lower end amps, but Peavey sold quite a few heads at $1000+ a piece and were doing good, had strong following. I think the company was most likely artificially bankrupt so it could move to China and the employee pensions can go to hell...pretty much what GM and Chrysler did with most of their US workforce. I remember reading that Chrysler's parent investment company had enough to bail out the manufacturer and turn a profit but chose to bankrupt it as that way they'd get a government bailout and restructure pretty much for free. Walls Street economics 101 I guess

Anyway - if you want real Marshall and Fender quality clones, they are available, some even in PTP handmade configurations.
I had a chance to check out a Metropoulos recently and whoa! That's the original Marshall sound, something that even Marshall cant seem to be able to do nowadays

Friedman is getting there in popularity as well, and so on...

I think the problem with Peavey is that they were never the "go to" amp of choice, even most high gain players would pick something else if money were no object. The US Made ones were great workhorses. I have their Classic 50/50 power amp that has done about 15 years worth of work with one tube change and works great and sounds great still. I got it cause I couldn't afford the Mesa Simulclass 2:90.


not saying all of China is free from the issues you mentioned just that the places that make the guitars and amp usually are much better than what you see on the news. factories that make goods strictly for Chinese consumption are often still shitholes but even those are changing.

as for prisoners well can't say much on organ doning but even here in the US prisoners make things for next to no pay. ever wonder who makes your license plates? now you know. prisoners are routinely sent to work at places as part of a work release program that again are paid way less than minimum wage (and the places get tax breaks). it's not just China that does that kind of thing (granted our prisoners are treated much better).
#30
Quote by monwobobbo
prisoners are routinely sent to work at places as part of a work release program that again are paid way less than minimum wage (and the places get tax breaks). it's not just China that does that kind of thing (granted our prisoners are treated much better).


I know that, but they get incentives in return, like early release...but probably same thing happens in China, you donate a kidney to comrade Tsing Tao and you get 10 years off your sentence
#31
Quote by diabolical
I want my gear to be built in countries with better reputation for quality and hopefully backed with the right certifications.
Overall, Chinese labor is hit/miss and you never know what is happening in these factories in terms of quality and human abuses as it is all hush hush.
They incarcerate people and send them to prison labor camps where they work their sentence making shoes for the USA, or junk for the $1 stores.
They have no problem using child labor. A lot of their industry uses dormitories where the workers are in slave-like labor camps and have a break maybe 1 day of the month. So it makes one wary to purchase from China, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc for that matter.


Pretty much all bullshit. Get some firsthand knowledge and don't simply parrot what you read on the intertoobs. I've been to China to deal with some of the factories (not guitar) and I've visited the Qindao Epiphone factory (cleaner than the Gibson factory by lots). Not much "hush-hush" there because US interests are walking in and out of the factories every week. The trade agreements are doing what they were designed to do, and what's happening now is not what was happening 10 years ago. Check the dates on the YouTube vids you've been watching.

Indonesia has a generally VERY laid back (almost lazy) reputation for its workforce. Ask Nik Azam (Ceriatone) about his efforts to get his own workers up to speed. His amps come over with a very high reputation for quality. VietNam is pushing to be the next Korea. Just as the Korean auto industry has made tremendous strides over the last decade and a half (and is now rivaling Japanese cars), so VietNam is cranking up its manufacturing to do the same.

There are, in all of these countries, bootleg manufacturers. But any quality issues are really more those of the US company importing the goods; if they demand quality and take the time to have boots on the ground inspecting what rolls off the factory lines, you'll get good product.
#32
i see used chinese organs all the time on my craigslist for free.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#33
Quote by gregs1020
i see used chinese organs all the time on my craigslist for free.


Why are you perusing the personals?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#34
Quote by gregs1020
i see used chinese organs all the time on my craigslist for free.


Yeah, they're all over the LA Craigslist. [Insert inappropriate and probably racially offensive joke here]
#35
Quote by dspellman
[Insert inappropriate and probably racially offensive joke here]


They're human organs right?


I mean I would hate to hound you about it cause I really don't have a dog in this fight.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#37
Quote by Arby911
Why are you perusing the personals?


The more important question: You're alive?

Followed by: Where the hell have you been?
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#38
Quote by dementiacaptain
The more important question: You're alive?

Followed by: Where the hell have you been?


Usually its followed by 'why am I in a tub of ice?' but that works too.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#39
Oh I know why...
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#40
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
They can keep their USA guitars. I'll grab a Maybach and a Navigator instead!


haha
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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