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#1
http://www.metalsucks.net/2013/12/06/metal-fans-hopelessly-stuck-past/



Is this from 1993 or 2013?

With the exception of maybe classical, I cannot think of a genre more fixated on the past than metal. I’ve been listening to metal for 25 years, and from what I can tell, the metal scene has remained frozen in 1995. In contrast to other genres, who are all about what’s fresh, new and interesting, metal just seems content to keep talking about the same fucking bands year after year after year, and I just don’t get it.

For example, look at the lineups of these two recent fests. I am pretty sure that MISERY INDEX is the newest band on the main portion of the bill, and they are 15 years old!! The rest of them might as well torn straight from the reviews section of Metal Maniacs in 1996. I mean it’s 2013 and someone gave top billing to fucking MORGOTH?!?! Really???? They were the definition of “bands whose album I bought in 1993 on cassette for $2, listened to once or twice and forgot about because zzzzzz.” Or look at the last few guests on the MS podcast: Billy Milano (SOD/MOD), Death Angel, Slayer, Deicide and DRI. Those are all 80s bands!!

I don’t really even think it’s a case of the typical, idiotic “older = better” mentality that you see so often in music. Yes, there is a certain amount of that, but I think it’s mostly that metal fans are just totally stuck in the past for whatever reason, like your uncle that corners you at family gatherings to lecture you about how they “don’t make cars like they used to” and the ’69 Mustang was the last good car they ever made and how you should quit driving that Honda Civic made out of plastic by some Orientals and get a REAL car. Replace “Honda Civic” with the contemporary band of your choice and “’69 Mustang” with Death or Metallica and it might as well be the comments section of this site.

I feel like there are two things going on here:

The metal scene is so creatively bankrupt that it hasn’t really produced anything interesting since the 90s. Other than I guess djent, I can’t really think of any significant new ideas or genres since then. Bands just keep reiterating the same ideas, and it’s usually not very interesting. So why listen to some 3rd-generation copycats when you can listen to the band who invented it? I mean let’s be real, are there any metal bands these days doing shit as groundbreaking, unique and compelling as what OBITUARY, CYNIC, or SUFFOCATION did 20-25 years ago? And I’m not a black metal fan, but I’ll be the first to admit that what all the Scando bands did was some groundbreaking shit– and 20 years later, the genre is still essentially just a bunch of bands copying what they did two decades before.

Metal fans are narrowminded and unsophisticated, and hate on anything new or groundbreaking that does come along. This is also nothing new. If you were around in the 90s, you will remember that people HAAAAAATED Focus and Effigy of the Forgotten when they came out. The same ponytailed dorks who jizz over that album today were the same ones who hated it at the time because it didn’t sound like fucking Ride the Lightning or whatever. The so-called “fans” discourage musical innovation and reward those who slavishly imitate the past.

I don’t know about you, but I think it’s pretty embarrassing. I mean fucking MOVE ON you losers — things have changed since the days when the Super Nintendo was the console of choice, Bill Clinton was president, and Miley Cyrus was just a lump in her daddy’s pants. If you’re in a band, do something new and different that we haven’t heard literally 10,000 times before. And if you’re a fan, up your fucking game and learn to appreciate innovation.
#3
Hey look on the bright side, the already small community is going to get even smaller because of the lack of anything new and exciting.
Dance in the moonlight my old friend twilight


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What's this about ****ing corpses? My UG senses were tingling.
#4
Metal is still developing. there's loads of great bands on Bandcamp pushing it in new directions. Just because popular music has now done away with subtlety does not mean that good music is not being made, and people who use that as an excuse to say that "modern music is terrible" have likely not spent much time listening to modern music at all.

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#5
Quote by Banjocal
Metal is still developing. there's loads of great bands on Bandcamp pushing it in new directions. Just because popular music has now done away with subtlety does not mean that good music is not being made, and people who use that as an excuse to say that "modern music is terrible" have likely not spent much time listening to modern music at all.


The problem is metal isn't that it's bad but that the community is hostile and stuck in the past. You can see this from the bands who are considered "big". There's barely any of the newer metal bands filling out big venues any more it's all the old ones such as Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Metallica etc. The bands that have got big from which are "newer" like Slipknot and A7X and BMTH aren't even considered to be metal by metal fans. The metal media is also obsessed with constant tourings and reunions of this old bands instead of trying to get people into newer bands.

I remember when I was first getting into metal and I came on this website to talk about bands like Killswitch Engage and Trivium and Avenged Sevenfold and was just met with a ton of abuse telling me it's not proper metal. The community is hostile and not very nice and even if interesting stuff with the music is being done in the underground, if it doesn't reach any sort of mainstream success it ain't gonna have a lot of cultural relevance and will be forgotten.
#6
That's only one type of metalhead. I know plenty who embrace innovation. I think the conservative metalheads are probably the reason metal is an actual community though, more than any other sort of popular music. If a genre is all about innovation then it's hard to really have something to unite under.
Last edited by korinaflyingv at Dec 20, 2016,
#7
Be honest though, some of the screamo shit is God damn embarrassing & not only that but there is so much distortion in the vocals that the lyrics are indistinguishable. I like a good angry song every once in a while but I mean God damn some of these songs are so one dimensional because they basically ignore every emotion that isn't hateful. I do think there has been some good stuff since 1995 but not much. Slipknot was ok, Opeth ok. Fuck I don't know, I will take this further because I guess why the fuck not? But I like music that invokes feelings other then shooting up schools.
#8
"Metal fans are hopelessly stuck to the past"

Goes on to say
I mean let’s be real, are there any metal bands these days doing shit as groundbreaking, unique and compelling as what OBITUARY, CYNIC, or SUFFOCATION did 20-25 years ago?


wat?

"Yeah, it's so annoying when people say things from the 80s were better, but to be fair, all things that are not from the 80s are shit"
Last edited by ultimate-slash at Dec 20, 2016,
#9
case in point:

Quote by NewDayHappy
Be honest though, some of the screamo shit is God damn embarrassing & not only that but there is so much distortion in the vocals that the lyrics are indistinguishable. I like a good angry song every once in a while but I mean God damn some of these songs are so one dimensional because they basically ignore every emotion that isn't hateful. I do think there has been some good stuff since 1995 but not much. Slipknot was ok, Opeth ok. Fuck I don't know, I will take this further because I guess why the fuck not? But I like music that invokes feelings other then shooting up schools.
#10
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#11
EndTheRapture51
Ja but I'd say that the reason why it's stuck in the past is because most popular metal or at least metal-derived hardcore nowadays is shit. But people make the error of assuming all metal to be like the popular metal, and most people who "get into" metal tend to go back to the classics at best. As a result, metal fans appear stuck in the past.

It's also that as a culture "the" metal community is very traditionalist - it has found the aesthetic that works for the respective genres, and generally function (even in display/dress) is privileged over progression for the sake of it. Arguably there's a similar thing in rock, but because rock lends itself to jazz and experimental elements more easily (because it isn't so overtly abrasive to begin with, and often follows simpler structures), it has developed in a lot of different directions, if only also due to its relative accessibility.

I don't think that these metal fans care about accessibility or cultural relevance in the grander sense because they have the sub-culture that comes with the more abrasive music they like. And while I don't care for such abuse, those bands are metalcore (and not the good earlier stuff), not metal. They have more in common with hardcore than they do with metal, and whether I agree with the accessibility point or not, the metal fan is very likely to say "you are not entitled to accessibility", at which point the conversation is probably over. Indeed they are probably frustrated that the music they liked has been appropriated and put into quite bland hardcore mixups which do nothing with it, and, perhaps to more naive metal fans, this feels like cheapening the music they like too.

I would say however that rock music is also becoming more and more homogenous - I'm still waiting to hear anything that might be the noisy elements in The Velvet Underground or The Beatles' more abstract stuff in the here and now. Music is now so commercialised that stuff "that" out there simply is not allowed, and the only way it gets in is through comedy music, or by luck making it super accessible at the same time. Maybe Radiohead? Even then, they're quite reserved for all their experimental influences

EDIT: but, like I said, anyone who says modern metal is going nowhere hasn't looked much at all, and that's their fault - not a lack of commercial success, which by this point is manufactured to appeal to the respective lowest common denominator and has nothing whatsoever to do with quality or progression, save for when such progression occurs as a result of the aforementioned underground->indie->sudden independently-formed commercial success.
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Last edited by Banjocal at Dec 20, 2016,
#13
Banjocal

I think the creation of metalcore as a genre was basically what has kept the whole "metal" scene alive for the past 15 years by bringing in new people to the genre and actually innovating it. It's grown stale now but that's what is really needed. And "real metal fans" basically wrote it off because it got teens and teenage girls listening to and consuming the music.
#14
I want to take a second & give a shout out to Jared Dines & Rob Chapman, I follow these guys on YouTube. Both are immensely talented. They are not super famous they each got like one million subs but Jared did a song called "The Clown" I was blown away by it. I was expecting another dickwad emo scream song going into it but I was moved by the emotion put into it. Real cool song plz check it out & subscribe to his channel.
Last edited by NewDayHappy at Dec 20, 2016,
#15
Quote by NewDayHappy
I want to take a second & give a shout out to Jared Dines & Rob Chapman, I follow these guys on YouTube. Both are immensely talented. They are not super famous they each got like one million subs but Jared did a song called "The Clown" I was blown away by it. I was expecting another dickwad emo scream song going into it but I was moved by the emotion put into it. Real cool song plz check it out & subscribe to his channel.


#16
EndTheRapture51
I agree that initially it took it in a new direction, albeit one with a short gordon freeman. Early metalcore wasn't that written off, largely because some of it was pretty cool, particularly the bands that formed before 2000.

I don't really agree that it kept it alive as stoner and doom have pretty consistently held it together the last 20 years, I personally wouldn't call it innovation because it was a different direction rather than a renewal within metal.

(also how was your b-day?)
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Last edited by Banjocal at Dec 20, 2016,
#17
I'm more metal than that lot and I don't have long hair or band shirts
You hit 'em and they get back up
I hit 'em and they stay down
- Frank Castle
#18
Quote by NewDayHappy
Be honest though, some of the screamo shit is God damn embarrassing & not only that but there is so much distortion in the vocals that the lyrics are indistinguishable. I like a good angry song every once in a while but I mean God damn some of these songs are so one dimensional because they basically ignore every emotion that isn't hateful. I do think there has been some good stuff since 1995 but not much. Slipknot was ok, Opeth ok. Fuck I don't know, I will take this further because I guess why the fuck not? But I like music that invokes feelings other then shooting up schools.


that feeling when old people misuse the term screamo smh
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#19
Maybe because of elitist douchebags telling everyone they're not metal unless they only listen to obscure bands who sing about gods of blood rain. A lot of that stuff is as shallow and meaningless and just focused on finding a grind that's supposed to be a hook as pop music. (I said 'a lot,' not 'most' or 'all.')

Metalcore was the most rock'n'roll genre of the past 15 years. I don't know why everyone has such a problem with some types of music because 'teens like it.' Most teens can't relate to Medusa or Hephaestus's seventh son, but they can relate to being angry because of relationship trouble, family issues and the like. It's the same for everyone regardless of age really, just that some aren't as snobbish as others.

The metal community wouldn't have such a reputation if modern metal bands' fans weren't made to feel guilty for liking new music.
#20
I'm a metal fan and I love new bands, tho.
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy
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#21
Mastodon is pretty cool, yeah?
I haven't listened to anything after Crack the Skye, but that album & Blood Mountain & Leviathan are all top-tier albums.
#22
Quote by institutions
Mastodon is pretty cool, yeah?
I haven't listened to anything after Crack the Skye, but that album & Blood Mountain & Leviathan are all top-tier albums.


I GUESS THEY WOULD SAY WE COULD SET THIS WORLD ABLAZE?
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy
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#23
Hey lets listen to some good metalcore guise ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )







I am avoiding adding discussion to this thread because lyle doesn't seem open to the idea that he might be wrong.
o()o

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#24
Quote by EpiExplorer
I am avoiding adding discussion to this thread because lyle doesn't seem open to the idea that he might be wrong.


What a beta nu male.

I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy
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#25
Quote by EpiExplorer


I am avoiding adding discussion to this thread because lyle doesn't seem open to the idea that he might be wrong.


I'll name a popular and successful metalcore band and you'll call it shit because you're an elitist
#26
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'll name a popular and successful metalcore band and you'll call it shit because you're an elitist


How do you know that he won't just because you said this? You ruined a chance to disprove your point. How unscientific.

8====D~~~ ~~~~~
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#27
Quote by zgr0826
How do you know that he won't just because you said this? You ruined a chance to disprove your point. How unscientific.

8====D~~~ ~~~~~


I win both ways because if he won't he will have to say nice things about BMTH
#28
Just noticed this.
Quote by Spinnerweb
Metalcore was the most rock'n'roll genre of the past 15 years.




Quote by EndTheRapture51
I win both ways because if he won't he will have to say nice things about BMTH

ur evil
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy
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#29
I am so glad that I stopped checking Car Bomb out after w^w^^w^w
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#30
I think it's because metal as such predefined genre boundaries that it stifles creativity and doesn't give the genre room to expand, so every avenue it had to go has already been traveled down at some point in the last 40 years. Here are some of the boundaries that I'm talking about that really limit what is metal:

-Your instrument choice is limited. You can *add* instruments to the ensemble, but you cannot remove the drums, or electric guitar. Metal is perhaps the only genre that defines what instruments it can and can't be played on. Additionally, the music world is shifting ever more towards electronic based sounds and metalheads have been vehemently opposed to this. There are a few bands that blend them both, but for the most part you aren't allowed to use electronic elements if you're making metal.

-Your key/scale/mode choice is limited. Metal is about darkness, aggression, etc. A minor key/mode is standard and any deviation from that must soon be brought back to the minor key/mode.
Check out my band Disturbed
#31
Quote by StewieSwan
-Your key/scale/mode choice is limited. Metal is about darkness, aggression, etc. A minor key/mode is standard and any deviation from that must soon be brought back to the minor key/mode.


Most of Torche's songs are in major keys.
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#32
tbh stewie I think yr projecting those limitations on it bc there's a decent number of metal bands that do those things. Not tons, but like i said before, if you haven't looked for it, it's your fault
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#33
I have been a metal fan since the early 80's (since I was a little kid, basically) and have never struggled to find new, old, and undiscovered metal music that keeps me excited about the genre. There are new bands releasing killer material at this very moment. No other genre has ever done it for me the way metal does. Of course, I don't like everything that comes out. I'm not very fond of djent -- but I admit that it still deserves to be called metal because it doesn't fit in any other category. It's becoming stale right now, but at least it was a 'thing' that pushed some boundaries.

At the end of the day, metal is about the riffs, the atmosphere, and the attitude. If it has those elements, then it's good. No need to be concerned about whether it's reinventing the wheel or not. Classical is still enjoyable and look how long it's been around...
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
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#34
Tell me was it all worth it, to watch your kingdom grow?
All the anchors in the ocean haven’t sunk this low
Sunk this low
You hit 'em and they get back up
I hit 'em and they stay down
- Frank Castle
#35
I have been listening to and playing metal as well as going to metal concerts since the early 80's so I have wathced the evolution.

The metal genre itself has become too convoluted with subgenres and classifications within those subgenres. In the beginning metal was underground pissed off angry music that offends most people and that is OK.

Early pioneers like Sabbath, Priest, and maiden will always be go to bands likewise the the wave of pioneers that were taking the reigns in the eraly '80s while there were many it was the so-called Big 4 that became the most prominent with Metallica always in the lead. When Metallica broke through into the mainstream starint with AJFA they began to change their style not that bands shouldn't diversify as they grow but Metallica changed their style to become more mainstream Megadeth (always #2) followed suit because of this metal would, for a while become slightly more acceptable and mainstream.

FF a decade and metal has really just gone back underground where it came from and where it belongs. Also many of the older bands are still alive and kicking which keeps them relavent in the scene for example the last two records released by Anthrax is some of the best work in their entire discography. Slayer, Machine Head, Lamb of God etc. are still putting out quality music.

While Metallica manages to still play arenas most of the rest are playing the smaller venues and club circuits.

FWIW the best point that I can make make about this whole article is that metal fans really don't give a f**k what everybody else thinks we never have which really makes the entire argument a moot point.

"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
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Last edited by Evilnine at Dec 20, 2016,
#36
^
Tbh I cringed.
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy
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#37
Quote by cha33 armstrong
Tell me was it all worth it, to watch your kingdom grow?
All the anchors in the ocean haven’t sunk this low
Sunk this low


BLEH
#38
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'll name a popular and successful metalcore band and you'll call it shit because you're an elitist



No, I'll call it shit cuz it's bad. fucking. music.
Regardless of popular and successful, which is the most basic form of ad populum, modern metalcore as you'd call it is piss weak in terms of originality, authenticity, memorability or the ability to handle their own bollocks. It's all designed for the quick get-in, get-out money grab scheme that Rise, Victory and Sumerian puts all its young signings through. It's factory line production of music, extremely cynical. The effect on the end product is bewildering in its collective blandness.

Barring acts that generate interest but are super niche (AAL, The Faceless, Chon, Polyphia for example), bands on those labels get put through pump'n'dump label tactics.

And let me explain to you 'elitist' for a second before you throw that concept around:

An elitist would stick to metal and almost exclusively metal because metal is the best and it's all you need. The elitist might like X band, who are 'good' to them, because they're a certain kind of metal.

Band Y might also be good to them, and might also be as good a band as X, even though they've got completely different sounds or are in different metal genres.

The elitist does not listen to band Y because it's in a different genre, even though he might like it, and even say he might like it publicaly, but he wont listen to it, cuz it's in a different genre. He'll even bemoan it for not being in the genre, or outright chastise it. Bearing in mind, band Y might still be a good band.

The difference here is that I'm saying band Y is just flat out shit and that I might listen to it if it wasn't shit.

I am very far from an elitist and I can definitely say that as a music fan in general and from what you've posted over the years, I am a damn sight more open minded about what I like and listen to than you.
o()o

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#39
Quote by zgr0826
I GUESS THEY WOULD SAY WE COULD SET THIS WORLD ABLAZE?


Yeaaa boi



I used to get shit in high school for thinking Crack the Skye is the best Mastodon album.
I also used to own some Mastodon earbuds, but they were those kind with the rubber that pokes into your ear and I hate those kind of earbuds so I didn't use them much
#40
Quote by EpiExplorer
Hey lets listen to some good metalcore guise ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )







I am avoiding adding discussion to this thread because lyle doesn't seem open to the idea that he might be wrong.

Not really metalcore but fukit

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