Poll: Maybe just a cigarette more
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View poll results: Maybe just a cigarette more
#BanBaby
1 4%
Radio stations and artists should stop playing it
2 7%
Let it go
10 36%
Play it more to #trigger lesbianic, purple-haired, overweight feminists
15 54%
Voters: 28.
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#1



It's that wonderful time of year where we give gifts, visit family, decorate a plastic evergreen, and debate just how rape-y "Baby it's Cold Outside" is.


http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/12/19/13885552/baby-its-cold-outside-feminist-date-rape-romantic


I view it in the same way I view other old shit. It's old. It was a different time. Would it fly nowadays? Nah. But I say let it go. Let it go. Turn away and slam the door.


What's the general consensus of what should be done with the song
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#2
Fuck you, I was literally just about to make this exact spam thread.
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy
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Normani
Normani
Normies
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
#3
Nothing should be done with the song. It's evidently not interpretable from a single position and it would help to consider the merits of each reading in a moral vacuum.
they're coming to take me away
ha-haaa
#5
This is now a misogyny jazz thread. Post yr fave misogynistic jazz


they're coming to take me away
ha-haaa
#6
I hate the term "rape-y." There's no "sorta" rape. There's rape, and attempted rape. It diminishes the severity of these actions to arbitrarily call sentiments that you find objectionable by your own ethics "rape-y."

So, sure, by today's standard, being so forward and trying to change someone's mind is not cool, but like damn, this chick still can decide whether or not she's gonna stay regardless of the weather.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
#7
I think "baby it's California outside" would be better

I do not consent
But baby, it's California outside
Madam President
Baby it's California outside
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#8
Quote by StewieSwan
I think "baby it's California outside" would be better

I do not consent
But baby, it's California outside
Madam President
Baby it's California outside
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#10
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#11
Oh great, he's gonna be faux ironic about rape now. We also needed more "Is this rape?" threads where dudes get together and debate with detachment. Christ.

This is why Trump won.
Quote by seanlang01
I hate the term "rape-y." There's no "sorta" rape. There's rape, and attempted rape. It diminishes the severity of these actions to arbitrarily call sentiments that you find objectionable by your own ethics "rape-y."

What? There's clearly a spectrum between predatory behavior and rape. When people use the term "rape-y", they're referring to the former. If you think it undermines the severity of rape then your issue is semantic, but there very clearly is such a thing as predatory sexual behavior without the occurrence of forced penetration.
#12
I think the song is fine and we should really let this go
My God, it's full of stars!
#13
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Oh great, he's gonna be faux ironic about rape now.


Please don't refer to me in the third person. I'm right here. I'm valid.
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#15
Quote by StewieSwan
Please don't refer to me in the third person. I'm right here. I'm valid.
who said that? is someone there?
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#16
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Found something I'm willing to debate, everyone.


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#17
Quote by Dreadnought
I think the song is fine and we should really let this go


This

The context of the song is that it's two young lovers, and back in them days it was improper for a young lady to spend the night with her lover. especially during Christmas time which is/was supposed to be about spending time with family

Like it's obviously a lighthearted flirty love song, people need to chill tf out
Eat your pheasant
Drink your wine
Your days are numbered, bourgeois swine!
#19
Quote by ultimate-slash
Hi, I'm here
hey there pal.
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#20
Quote by StewieSwan
Please don't refer to me in the third person. I'm right here. I'm valid.
Please, I can philosophically confirm you to be nothing more than a figment of my mind!
they're coming to take me away
ha-haaa
#21
Quote by Banjocal
Please, I can philosophically confirm you to be nothing more than a figment of my mind!


Philosophy is a jewish invention
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#22
Quote by seanlang01
I hate the term "rape-y." There's no "sorta" rape. There's rape, and attempted rape. It diminishes the severity of these actions to arbitrarily call sentiments that you find objectionable by your own ethics "rape-y."


haven't you ever heard of adjectives you big dummy
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#23
Quote by Dreadnought
I think the song is fine and we should really let this go
yeah it s a pretty good tune tbh
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#24
The problem is that people can't contextualize perspective in art very well. The song has some serious mixed messaging in there—for example, "What's in this drink?", "I really must go", "No, no, no, no" (all of which imply genuine resistance) versus "It's cold outside", "I wish I knew how to break the spell", "The neighbors might think" (all implying some form of seduction away from inhibition—but art back then had a tendency to straddle that line all the time. I think it's more a pornographic resistance cuz like, why would you write a thing where a woman has to acquiesce under force? Having a woman turn a No into a Yes was kind of this standard romantic narrative fantasy you'd find in the forties and fifties. Of course that means the song was engaging in convention, but that doesn't make it any less complicit on its own.

I've become skeptical of assertions stating that we can't examine past cultural objects (or even behaviors) through our modern moral lens, especially if there are examples of contemporaneous subversion of those morals that better align with our own. There also has to be a line drawn between taking into account something's historicity when making judgement and simply letting it slide cuz it's the past.

But this is a pretty broad topic and I highly, highly doubt a StewieSwan thread would even remotely allow for anything beyond "r u triggered". I guess I'm hoping I can hijack this shithole and salvage something out of the minutes I spent here.
#25
I think that this song definitely straddles the line between resistance and acquiescing to desire, but that's a legitimate romantic debate in many consensual interactions and relationships, and it's disingenuous of us to immediately jump to the valuation of it as sexually predatory.

Like, there's a lot of sexual and romantic power dynamics (that people enjoy) that this exchange could fall under, but a certain and powerful modern narrative would immediately classify this as patriarchal (which is to some extent, and of note this is not necessarily bad and some people like this) and rape-y.

There you go Stewie and Ali, that's the most I'm dedicating to this. I'm supposed to be reading Don Quixote right now
My God, it's full of stars!
#26
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
But this is a pretty broad topic and I highly, highly doubt a StewieSwan thread would even remotely allow for anything beyond "r u triggered". I guess I'm hoping I can hijack this shithole and salvage something out of the minutes I spent here.


I didn't even imply anything of the sort. It's pathetic how set on hating me you are.
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#27
Jesus Christ, do people have to nitpick every little thing nowadays? Like come on now, it's a Christmas classic. I have no idea why I'm so heated about this.
#29
Quote by Dreadnought
I think that this song definitely straddles the line between resistance and acquiescing to desire, but that's a legitimate romantic debate in many consensual interactions and relationships, and it's disingenuous of us to immediately jump to the valuation of it as sexually predatory.

I think you just misunderstood what I meant by resistance vs acquiescence. Resistance as in genuine aversion and lack of consent. My point is they really conflated that half of the dynamic with that of inhibition vs allowing your true desire to erode inhibition. It's no small difference.

Like, there's a lot of sexual and romantic power dynamics (that people enjoy) that this exchange could fall under, but a certain and powerful modern narrative would immediately classify this as patriarchal (which is to some extent, and of note this is not necessarily bad and some people like this) and rape-y.

This isn't life, though. It's a song, and its messaging should be lucid. This paragraph is a way, way bigger thing than even this lol. Sure, some people might enjoy that power dynamic, but that isn't to say we shouldn't be automatically skeptical of it due to its past. It's like if you catch someone on the street carrying a rifle. It has the capacity to be abused and frequently has been, even if good intentions abound. If you're only speaking for yourself, that's fine. I'm sure you're thoughtful and I really don't care to make this discussion about that kinda passing of judgement. Individual cases carry much more complexity. But very generally speaking, that power dynamic is worrisome.
#30
Quote by Dreadnought
I think that this song definitely straddles the line between resistance and acquiescing to desire, but that's a legitimate romantic debate in many consensual interactions and relationships, and it's disingenuous of us to immediately jump to the valuation of it as sexually predatory.

Like, there's a lot of sexual and romantic power dynamics (that people enjoy) that this exchange could fall under, but a certain and powerful modern narrative would immediately classify this as patriarchal (which is to some extent, and of note this is not necessarily bad and some people like this) and rape-y.

There you go Stewie and Ali, that's the most I'm dedicating to this. I'm supposed to be reading Don Quixote right now


a psychological phenomenon called, "playing hard to get".

I do think the "what's in this drink?" line is over-the-top, tho.
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#31
In modern context yeah, but back then the implication could have been "yo this booze is making me feel GREAT what is this whiskey or something damn boi"

Ali I wasn't responding to you and didn't read your post so I didn't misunderstand anything tbh
My God, it's full of stars!
#32
Quote by Dreadnought
Ali I wasn't responding to you and didn't read your post so I didn't misunderstand anything tbh

lol I don't believe you bruh. You literally made word-for-word responses to mine. The subject and its phrasing were identical. You just lazy af and don't wanna respond, admit it
#33
Quote by StewieSwan
I do think the "what's in this drink?" line is over-the-top, tho.
The answer to "What's in this drink" could be anything, a bill cosby, piece of dirt, a band-aid, could be a grape for all that matters. We don't have enough proof to judge that line. But at the end do we care? Now I'm rambling for no reason, I got triggered by this post.
#34
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Oh great, he's gonna be faux ironic about rape now. We also needed more "Is this rape?" threads where dudes get together and debate with detachment. Christ.
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#35
of course the flip-side of ~it's rapey~ is, you cannot have sex because what will yr. parents/brothers/neighbors think? it is the patriarchy policing womyns sexuality; you are a virgin or you are a whore. indeed, one could read it as a sex-positive song where female agency overcomes bourgeois Christian morality. do we take the words at face value, or do we grant the characters a psychological depth that requires a subtler reading?
#36
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
lol I don't believe you bruh. You literally made word-for-word responses to mine. The subject and its phrasing were identical. You just lazy af and don't wanna respond, admit it


Ok I'll say maybe 25% of it I read
My God, it's full of stars!
#37
I dig that but there's still the issue of how the song chooses to materialize any such readings. It's still a dude trying to talk a woman into sex while she repeats the word No a lot. We can make analogies between that theme and any other that fit within a similar dynamic, but we'd be talking around the song, not using its own expressions.
#38
I like to imagine the thing that's in the drink is ice cubes, and she's so pissed off that he'd be dense enough to put ice into a drink when it's absurdly cold outside instead of giving her a hot drink that she's debating leaving him just because of that.
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#39
Quote by StewieSwan
I didn't even imply anything of the sort. It's pathetic how set on hating me you are.


Quote by neidnarb11890
of course the flip-side of ~it's rapey~ is, you cannot have sex because what will yr. parents/brothers/neighbors think? it is the patriarchy policing womyns sexuality; you are a virgin or you are a whore. indeed, one could read it as a sex-positive song where female agency overcomes bourgeois Christian morality. do we take the words at face value, or do we grant the characters a psychological depth that requires a subtler reading?
i don't think you need to go so far as to say psychological depth but yeah i think there's a valid argument in this case that some of the sketchier lines are euphemistic though i don't know enough of the context to say whether that's actually the case
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3d9310rd is far more upset than i 
#40
Quote by theogonia777
haven't you ever heard of adjectives you big dummy
So it's murder-y when someone says they'd like to assault someone else then?


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
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