#1
Hello everyone. On my previous album I used guitar modeling with impulses due to budget constraints, although budget is not really a concern now (although I am a fan of saving as much money as possible). While this was effective, I'd like a more realistic sound.

In terms of amps, from what I've researched, the best possible combination is a tube amp and cabinet. My first question is, then, why tubes over solid state? Are tubes better than solid state because of overall texture or brilliance of sound or because when you turn them to 10 they have that sweet spot that sings that just sounds muddy with a solid state? Because of the neighbors, and because I am probably going to record this at home, someone recommended buying a micro cabinet, like a 15watt head with a 30w cabinet, and suggested that there will be no difference in quality to a 50w or a 100w. Is this true? Also, I've also heard that with know-how someone can easily design a cabinet for cheap that will do the same job as the expensive cabinets you buy in a store, that what you have to worry about is the head, is this true? In terms of era, buying an amp now compared to the 90s or even 70s, is there a quality difference in manufacturing back then compared to now, and do amps produced in those eras sound '90s' and amps today sound 'modern,' or is that more to do with production techniques and analog vs digital?

I guess my main concern would be that I'm going to need an amp that can have enough tones and variety (both clean and dirty) to make a diverse album. I plan on going to a large city near me where I can test out amps to find the preferred amp, although, unfortunately, I doubt they will let me blast it. I've tried the EVH 5150 III 15 watt micro head with matching cabinet and I've liked the sound, but there's so many amps out there it's dizzying, not to mention the fact that distortion pedals and effects obfuscate the original sound..

Last of all, I may play bar gigs, will a 30 watt cabinet be enough to shine through?

Thanks for reading.
Last edited by Maldorior at Dec 28, 2016,
#2
Okay, here's what I'm gathering from your post:

You're looking for an amp that you can play in bars as well as record at home without disturbing the neighbors that can cover 70s psychedelic to 90s extreme metal, is that correct?

Answer these questions: budget, where you live (ie, country/state/etc), current gigging rig, and current recording set up.

1. If you recorded via impulses last time, do you have the means to record a live rig?
2. Are you currently gigging, or just planning on it? What does your band look like in terms of how many other people are in it?
3. For "extreme metal", you're going to want a high gain head. For "psychedelic", you want low to mid gain. My suggestion is getting a 2 channel high gain head and using pedals on the clean channel to get your psychedelic tones.

When I have more information from you I can start dropping suggestions.
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Highway One Telecaster
Dean Evo
Mesa F-50
Laney GH50L
Vox AC30 C2
Ampeg V2
pedals
#3
Simple - get a 30 or 50 watt Mesa amp ( even the 30 watt amps are very loud). Check out the Rectoverb, Express, Triple Crown and Mark V. Any of those would be great. If you want an amp that you can gig with and that will sound great at lower volumes, Mesa is your best bet if you can afford one.

Don't buy a solid state amp as they are generally terrible, with very few exceptions. I currently play a Mesa Lonestar Special 1×12 combo ( 30 watts) and I've played every size of venue with it ( from bars to festivals) - it is an amazing amp, though it is more geared for less heavy styles. 30 watts is way more than enough with a Mesa amp - trust me!
#4
Also, could you clarify (with examples of bands) what YOU mean by "psychedelic" or "extreme metal"?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#5
i would get a JSX on the cheap.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
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2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#6
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i would get a JSX on the cheap.


I was going to recommend exactly this, but wanted some more info first. Thanks for stealing my thunder, dick!
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Highway One Telecaster
Dean Evo
Mesa F-50
Laney GH50L
Vox AC30 C2
Ampeg V2
pedals
#7
Quote by Maldorior
Hello everyone. On my previous album I used guitar modeling with impulses due to budget constraints, although budget is not really a concern now (although I am a fan of saving as much money as possible). While this was effective, I'd like a more realistic sound.


I'm assuming you did this all on your computer? There ARE better hardware-based solutions that are as realistic as it gets.

Quote by Maldorior
In terms of amps, from what I've researched, the best possible combination is a tube amp and cabinet.


Not necessarily

Quote by Maldorior
Also, I've also heard that with know-how someone can easily design a cabinet for cheap that will do the same job as the expensive cabinets you buy in a store, that what you have to worry about is the head, is this true? In terms of era, buying an amp now compared to the 90s or even 70s, is there a quality difference in manufacturing back then compared to now, and do amps produced in those eras sound '90s' and amps today sound 'modern,' or is that more to do with production techniques and analog vs digital?


The cabinet, that is, the wood portion, can easily be built by anyone with decent carpentry skills. Even I've done it (still have all my fingers). The speakers that go in it are going to be your biggest expense. A Vintage 30 will still be $130 (or whatever they're going for on Amazon, etc.) each. Ignore the "sounds just like a Vintage 30" from non-celestion builders. The speaker will largely determine the sound of the cabinet, particularly if you're close-miking. You'll get all kinds of arguments from tube amp folks regarding new vs. old, etc. Go listen for yourself.

Quote by Maldorior
I guess my main concern would be that I'm going to need an amp that can have enough tones and variety (both clean and dirty) to make a diverse album. I plan on going to a large city near me where I can test out amps to find the preferred amp, although, unfortunately, I doubt they will let me blast it. I've tried the EVH 5150 III 15 watt micro head with matching cabinet and I've liked the sound, but there's so many amps out there it's dizzying, not to mention the fact that distortion pedals and effects obfuscate the original sound..


This is a large part of why a tube amp isn't a requirement.

Quote by Maldorior
Last of all, I may play bar gigs, will a 30 watt cabinet be enough to shine through?


It's not the cabinet, but the combination of the amp and the cabinet and your EQ settings. I play bar gigs, and I'll sometimes take a setup that includes a modeler, a 1500W power amp (solid state) and a cabinet that will handle 900W. I don't use all 900W, but the total weight of the rig is lighter than most 2x12 combos. It's simpler, too, since it eliminates complicated pedalboards, etc. Other times I'll cart in a Carvin Belair, a small open-back 2x12 with 50W of EL84s pushing things. Up on an amp stand, it's usually plenty for those gigs. Once you've learned to let the bass take over the bottom end and that your role is in the midrange, you're good to go.
#8
LaidBack

Given his sig, you should probably retype that as "Thanks, Thunder-dick", lest he smite you.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#10
Waitaminit...his sig is gone!

Has he lost his godhood?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#11
Is investing in a Iso-cab a possibility if you plan to regularly record in the future? While that won't help you much in a live situation... it will make it easier to record at home without disturbing the neighbors and will still give you that good ol' tube amp to speaker to microphone tone.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#12
Probably still get the best heavy tones with amp sims instead of recording a mic'd tube amp. Modern software solutions are pretty excellent except for that "hair on the edge of breakup" that a tube amp still does better. If you want a small pro gig rig... Mesa always delivers.

There is a process to get Metal as f**k guitar tone:
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Dec 30, 2016,
#13
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Waitaminit...his sig is gone!

Has he lost his godhood?



huh? me? its still there.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#14
that is lord thunder-dick to you lowly earthling.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#15
Seriously, it was not visible when I posted that.


Your sig, that is,
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#16
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Seriously, it was not visible when I posted that.


Your sig, that is,


do you see it now? I do.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#17
Yes I do.


Your sig, that is.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#18
OP - there are a lot of amps that can cover the ground for all your tones or a few amps that can cover some.

For example the amps that will do it all: Mesa Mark V or John Petrucci, Laney IRT series now (possibly the TT, older series), Orange Rockerverb, VHT/Fryette Sig X, Diezel Herbert.

You can also get some amps that do enough wellor even supplement with some smaller amps if we're talking recording/gigging. Mesa Mini Rectifier for great cleans, distortion and some in between sounds if you like the rectifier sound, or the 6505 Mini or EVH 5150 III for the highly aggressive stuff. For the more mellow to bluesy sounds you can get away with something like a Laney LC15 or maybe one of the 40 watter Fender tube amps or a Traynor.

If you don't need more that pub volume and can't afford the big boy amps (Fryettes, etc.) , the Mesa Mini Rectifier or Orange Dark Terror might be the ticket as they track really well and are just loud enough for gigs. My first suggestion would probably be Mesa Mini with a 2x12 Mesa cab, if you like the Rectifier sound.

I honestly encourage you to go the real amp route, it sounds a lot better and you can easily do everything with an SM57 in front of a speaker.