#1
When I first started playing the guitar, 20 years ago, I was pretty into thrash. I still write in a thrashy style, but I have included a lot more melodic material into my playing, and my style is fairly modern. I had a Marshall amp and my tone usually had a tight bottom end to it for technical and fast picked parts. My lead sound was always thin and trebley sounding. My sound never was great if I were to play single notes that rang through a chord, it would be somewhat of a distorted mess. I always like the guitar sound that Killswitch Engage has, but when I try to play with their tone, it seems it sounds great if I play there types of riffs. If I play faster more technicall stuff it gets muddy, and the bottom doesn't cut through the way I would like it to. I think tone is very particular to the types of riffs you play mostly. Im looking for something a bit more versatile. By the way, I am currently using Bias FX for my guitar sound, and I have a les Paul with EMGs and an ESP 7 string with EMG's as my main guitars. Any pointers would be appreciated Here is a link to my current tone https://soundcloud.com/randynh
Last edited by R-T-P at Dec 30, 2016,
#3
Quote by R-T-P
When I first started playing the guitar, 20 years ago, I was pretty into thrash. I still write in a thrashy style, but I have included a lot more melodic material into my playing, and my style is fairly modern. I had a Marshall amp and my tone usually had a tight bottom end to it for technical and fast picked parts. My lead sound was always thin and trebley sounding. My sound never was great if I were to play single notes that rang through a chord, it would be somewhat of a distorted mess. I always like the guitar sound that Killswitch Engage has, but when I try to play with their tone, it seems it sounds great if I play there types of riffs. If I play faster more technicall stuff it gets muddy, and the bottom doesn't cut through the way I would like it to. I think tone is very particular to the types of riffs you play mostly. Im looking for something a bit more versatile. By the way, I am currently using Bias FX for my guitar sound, and I have a les Paul with EMGs and an ESP 7 string with EMG's as my main guitars. Any pointers would be appreciated Here is a link to my current tone https://soundcloud.com/randynh


ummm... a few things. you can only expect so much from something like Bias FX in terms of guitar tones. the bands you like use actual amps or high end digital stuff in an actual recording studio. are you using an cab simulator? if not then that's part of the problem. since it's all digital getting super tight bass can be a bit difficult. next thing is to ease up on the distortion. when you record you get saturation (even digitally) which makes it sound more distorted than it is. you'll find that if you ease up on the distortion that it won't turn to mush and in the end sound heavier. last (at least in my experience) computer interfaces don't always like EMGs (or other actives) as they have a strong signal. in a tube amp that's great for pushing the front end. with modeling it may cause un wanted distortion
#4
Quote by monwobobbo
ummm... a few things. 1you can only expect so much from something like Bias FX in terms of guitar tones. the bands you like use actual amps or high end digital stuff in an actual recording studio. 2are you using an cab simulator? if not then that's part of the problem. 3 since it's all digital getting super tight bass can be a bit difficult. next thing is to ease up on the distortion. when you record you get saturation (even digitally) which makes it sound more distorted than it is. you'll find that if you ease up on the distortion that it won't turn to mush and in the end sound heavier. last (at least in my experience) computer interfaces don't always like EMGs (or other actives) as they have a strong signal. in a tube amp that's great for pushing the front end. with modeling it may cause un wanted distortion


1. I mean its not super fancy like an ENGL or Framus like KSE used back then but by no means does that imply you can't get good tones out of them. They aren't as plug and play as a real amp, I'll give you that but you can get good sounds out of them. It's not a junky product IMO.

2. Guitar suites like Bias and Amplitube come with that unless you mean a loadbox/cab simulator like a torpedo live which isn't really needed with VST stuff.

3. That's the first time I've heard that reason. What is that based on?


OP as for tones sounding different when you play different things I would say thats to be expected. When you download a tonematched tone or a tone that is made for an artist, that tone is EQ'd and made to work around those specific sounds so it might not be quite what you expect when you play something else. Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of these VSTs don't have a '1 amp to rule them all' kind of mentality so if you're looking for a specific sound, try different amps, EQs, levels etc... to get where you want it to be. Need more clarity? Maybe consider bumping down the gain like mono said. Personally when I use patches for certain songs, I generally tweak them quite a bit if I want to use them for something else.


Another thing is how are you mixing your tones? How many tracks are you recording and are you using the same tones on multiple different tracks or are you layering them? Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of recorded tones aren't necessarily a single amp recorded once. They can be an amp tracked over multiple times, it can even be multiple amps so try blending, adding, EQing to get the tones you want.
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#5
Do you want to move into a real amp again? What are your primary needs out of your guitar rig -- playing out loud/live or live recording? Can you record with a mic and a cab or do you need it to be silent recording? Actually, I checked out several of your tracks and thought your tone was pretty damned decent considering what you're using.

But the thought that immediately popped into my head was "I think he'd be pretty happy with a Peavey 6505+ or an EVH 5150 III mic'd up to a good cab." Your tone is in the same ballpark as those two amps, but I think you'd notice a tonal improvement with either of those. IMO nothing beats the sound of a tube amp mic'd up to a quality speaker, and then layered with 2-4 takes of the same riffs. Out of the two amps I mentioned, the EVH is a newer design and probably the tightest in the low end, which I think is what you described needing. The 6505+ is also pretty tight but has a bit more bottom end for that satisfying "chug" when palm muting. They both have that in spades though. And the lead tones are both going to be pretty awesome with some reverb and/or delay.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
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#6
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
1. I mean its not super fancy like an ENGL or Framus like KSE used back then but by no means does that imply you can't get good tones out of them. They aren't as plug and play as a real amp, I'll give you that but you can get good sounds out of them. It's not a junky product IMO.

2. Guitar suites like Bias and Amplitube come with that unless you mean a loadbox/cab simulator like a torpedo live which isn't really needed with VST stuff.

3. That's the first time I've heard that reason. What is that based on?


OP as for tones sounding different when you play different things I would say thats to be expected. When you download a tonematched tone or a tone that is made for an artist, that tone is EQ'd and made to work around those specific sounds so it might not be quite what you expect when you play something else. Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of these VSTs don't have a '1 amp to rule them all' kind of mentality so if you're looking for a specific sound, try different amps, EQs, levels etc... to get where you want it to be. Need more clarity? Maybe consider bumping down the gain like mono said. Personally when I use patches for certain songs, I generally tweak them quite a bit if I want to use them for something else.


Another thing is how are you mixing your tones? How many tracks are you recording and are you using the same tones on multiple different tracks or are you layering them? Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of recorded tones aren't necessarily a single amp recorded once. They can be an amp tracked over multiple times, it can even be multiple amps so try blending, adding, EQing to get the tones you want.


based on my own experience. guess I'm not saying it's impossible but perhaps takes more fine tuning than many (including me) put into it. as you said not as plug and play friendly as an amp. as for the cab thing, no don't mean outboard simulator. picking the right cab can make or break a tone and then getting the details right again takes a bit of effort and experimentation.
#7
Quote by monwobobbo
based on my own experience. guess I'm not saying it's impossible but perhaps takes more fine tuning than many (including me) put into it. as you said not as plug and play friendly as an amp. as for the cab thing, no don't mean outboard simulator. picking the right cab can make or break a tone and then getting the details right again takes a bit of effort and experimentation.


Can you really say it was the result of digital signals and not the result of everything else in the chain though? I mean, my youtube videos are digital, my TV and everything else is digital, the bass isn't flubby on that. Why is it different for amps? I mean IMO a lot of the cheaper modellers don't have great speakers, great emulation and other things so its hard for me to say something like 'it has flubby bass cause its digital' with all of that in mind but again YMMV.


I agree that picking a good impulse for your cab sim is very important in getting the sounds you want as well.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#8
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Can you really say it was the result of digital signals and not the result of everything else in the chain though? I mean, my youtube videos are digital, my TV and everything else is digital, the bass isn't flubby on that. Why is it different for amps? I mean IMO a lot of the cheaper modellers don't have great speakers, great emulation and other things so its hard for me to say something like 'it has flubby bass cause its digital' with all of that in mind but again YMMV.


I agree that picking a good impulse for your cab sim is very important in getting the sounds you want as well.


ok to clarify. the high end digital stuff like Axe-FX seem to do just fine. programs that run thru your PC often fall short. I agree that it is the sum of what you are using and guess I should have been more specific (sorry didn't get much sleep last night and had a brutal day, now at work). I've found that your basic laptop with an ok interface and semi-decent program didn't really get the job done (and this is often the setup guys have). personally I ended up getting a Zoom Digital 8-track recorder and a POD to record with for this reason. dedicated stuff tends to give better results. so again sorry for not being very specific
#9
So I wasn't too clear in my previous post about my main use for my guitar tone. I do not play live at all anymore. I strictly practice alone and record. I have used a POD HD, up to this point for my recordings, but was looking for something I could reamp. The POD HD doesn't give me the option to reamp. I want to make more use of positive grid, because a VST I think I will have more versatility. I have seen alot of good advice on this thread , I appreciate tje suggestions
#10
I have 2 suggestions:

1. If you want a real amp, check out the Laney IronHeart Studio15 - this is the same line of amp that KSE uses (used?). You can run it through headphones and it has a RE-AMP feature for recording built in.

2. Up your game to full blown VSTs and amp simulations. I use Peavey ReValver and can get great high gain tones. I just use it for practice and use a cheap RockSmith Instrument to USB cable for my "interface" but into a multipurpose MacBook Pro.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .