#1
I'm just a novice so I hope my question isn't super dumb. I was reading about how Andy Summers used the built-in chorus effect of the Roland JC 120 on some great songs, but he used pedal effects as well. I thought modulation effects like chorus were supposed to come BEFORE the ambiance effects like reverb and delay, or the sound gets muddy. So if you have a JC-120 with that great chorus effect and you really want to use it but also want to use other time-based effects at the same time, how do you prevent muddying your sound if the chorus isn't supposed to come last in the sequence?
#2
I assume that the on-board effects the amp comes with are put in before the effects loop. If they are, then just put the reverb pedal in the effects loop.

For the record, chorus is technically also a time-based effect, as are flangers and phasers. So making the distinction between that and 'time-based' effects like delay and reverb is a misnomer.
Quote by Axelfox
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
#3
Hmmmmm. Your theory made sense to me T00DEEP, but then I pulled up a signal flow diagram for the JC 120 and it looks like the chorus effect comes after the effects loop. If the chorus is on, it's coming last. I don't know, I'm probably just being too rigid--maybe it just means that "rules" are meant to be broken sometimes, especially in music.
#4
galacticat There are no "rules" but really just general suggestions on what works best. You have to think about the signal chain by how any given pedal is affecting the rest of the chain, and how the rest of the chain effects it.

A simple explanation of what a typical chorus does is that it replicates the guitar signal multiple times, puts a light time delay on each one of varying time, and pitch shifts them in and out of tune, above cents and below, through an oscillator that dictates how fast and how deep the detune will be. However that process is not changed by any pedal, really. The delayed signal process is always going to be performed at the parameter set, and the pitch modulation will be controlled by the LFO set by you.

So if the chorus effect is last, what it is doing is affecting everything and essentially having the "final say" in what is happening in the effect chain. The chorus' sound, dictated by the parameters, is affecting everything. Your entire tone will be chorus'd once, as if you have a bunch of different yous, all with the exact same guitar tuned pretty close to perfect pitches, amp, other effects, etc. all on and playing the exact same thing at the same time (kinda). It will result in a more noticeable, broad chorus sound.

However if you place the chorus say first in the chain, the chorus-effected signal output from the pedal will be effected by everything else, rather than the chorus effecting everything else. It could end up being covered up a bit by distortion, delay, reverb, etc. It would be as if a bunch of different yous all with the exact same guitar tuned pretty close to perfect pitches, playing the exact same part at the same time (kinda), but all the outputs were summed into one input and ran into one extra line of pedals. That would result in a more subtle sound underneath the wash of other effects.

Thankfully choruses have knobs that do things so making the chorus not-so-subtle even when it is first in the chain is very possible, and making a chorus subtle at the end of the chain is very possible as well. Chorus is not as picky with its placement as delays are with overdriven units imo.
Last edited by Will Lane at Jan 8, 2017,
#5
Thanks Will! So my initial premise that putting the chorus at the end of the chain makes the tone muddy is completely false. I probably confused that with some other effect issue, like putting reverb too early. So having the chorus at the end wasn't a problem for Andy Summers to work around, it was exactly what he wanted. I love his sound, and the JC-120 chorus effect blows my mind. I like knowing that I could maybe have one someday, use it's awesome chorus, and still use reverb and delay before the chorus and not have crappy tone just because of where the chorus is in the sequence.
#6
What was overlooked here is, What amp is that again? Roland JC 120 you say? Uh yea that explains everything, Roland/Boss tends to know a few things about effects and where to place them in the chain,
#7
Quote by nastytroll
What was overlooked here is, What amp is that again? Roland JC 120 you say? Uh yea that explains everything, Roland/Boss tends to know a few things about effects and where to place them in the chain,


yeah and even more important is that a JC (Jazz Chorus) is designed around that effect.
#8
Quote by monwobobbo
yeah and even more important is that a JC (Jazz Chorus) is designed around that effect.


Perhaps the reason its been in production for the last 40 years? Best clean amp ever made