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#1
Hey. I'm looking for advice on buying a head and half stack cabinet. I play death metal; Cannibal Corpse, Carcass, Decapitated, and Arch Enemy are some bands I cover and listen to. I know a lot of bands I listen to use Marshall heads and cabinets so I'm leaning towards buying Marshall equipment. I'm new to using more 'stage' level equipment so I need to be pointed in a good direction. My bassist did a lot of research and recommended these for my price range (which is about $700-800).

Marshall MG100HCFX MG Series 100-Watt Guitar Amp Head $359.00 and Randall RG412 RG Series Cabinet 200 Watt 4x12 Speaker Cabinet $349.00

Another question, would it be better to buy the Marshall MG100 head and this Marshall Cabinet together?
Marshall MG412ACF MG 120-Watt 4-12-Inch Angled Guitar Extension Cabinet $259.00


Any suggestions and advice appreciated, Thanks!!
#4
Grawgos

Thanks guys, my budget is $700-800, maybe $900. Why are the MG100 bad quality? I'm also getting a Maxon over drive extreme pedal, I think that would improve the overall sound? I'm willing to buy used. Only thing is, my brother and me are trying to buy a pair of heads and half stack cabinet, hes lead guitarist. It would be harder to find two of each and also I live in Montana, not much death metal around here.. Even Floyd rose guitars are slightly uncommon, just a bunch of fenders and fixed bridges
Last edited by Redwolf131987 at Jan 11, 2017,
#5
Will Lane

$700 to $800 is my budget. I'm using a behringer amp, I think at least this Marshall head and Randall amp would be an upgrade from that? It seems the Randall cabinet is better than the Marshall, should I get both Randall head and half stack?
#6
LOl Marshall MG is the worst Marshall the only thing its better than, is a squire amp. but that can also be debatable.

Listen i know you want the head and stack but your price range is really only good enough for just used equipment. which theres nothing wrong with and really in todays world many older musicians will say it doesn't make sense to buy new. but im gonna make this simple for you and tell you your options as best as i can.

So lets Say you really want something New, well with your price range id recommend going for combo amps theres so much more of a market for combo amps at your price range and good ones too. i see you said your looking at a !00 watt but Do you know how loud 100 watts is ? and if you bought a MG 100 watt lol thats just sad 100 watts OF CRAP im not doubting your bass player but research doesn't compare to Experince/skill

Theres no need for 100 watts in todays world if you played at a club they would mic your amp to the PA and actually most clubs do that regardless if your amp is loud enough for the club so with that being said if you wanted new, somthing you could start a history with you should look into combo amps

I saw the bands you listed and you really have alot of options if your going combo. Metal type amp company's to look into are: Mesa/Boogie, Blackstar (which i think is what you should get if your sold on the marshall tone.) You should Check Out ORANGE there in your price range and used by bands like Slipknot.
and if your not satisfied with those Company's you can check out Hughes and kettner they got a combo for 800 there mainly used in german heavy metal bands.

now i understand you originally said you want a stack and head but why ? your not gonna sacrifice any volume loss at the clubs remember when they mike you into the P.A not to mention if your jamming with a band, 15-20 watts Will Do in a pinch, so with that being said you should look into 25-50 watt amps
and BTW your gonna sacrifice tone quality at your price range if go for the head and stack.
Buying amps can get expensive which is why you should look into buying used because you can afford more expensive amps at your price range. which brings me to my next point


TUBES! TUBES! TUBES! PowerTubes and tubes play the biggest part in given your amp its character sound theres much more in a amp then tubes i assure you but Tubes Play a big part in the sound. Now the reason why we all say EWWWW to MARSHAL MG is because its SOLID STATE ..... YUCK! Solid state means theres no Tubes and Trust us, you do not wanna be stuck buying a 100 watt MG you might aswell call yourself ULTRANOOB You want tubes yo! The only Guitarist i know that "Made it" with a solid state amp was dime bag darrel but even he realized his mistake and switched to tubes 6 months befor he died R.I.P

Now i guess you dont know much about tubes and really this is one of those kind of things where you gotta go to GuitarCenter and listen for yourself but i can steer you in the right direction. Marshall Famously uses the British EL34 while newer/American ampbrands and Metal bands use the 6L6 power tube like MESABoogie this ill remind you is the best general description i can give you. So once again for the Metal tone associated with Marshal and British tone EL34 and for the American tone 6L6.

If you wanted the Marshall tone your best shot is to look For amp Heads or Combo amps with EL34 power tubes like (Blackstar) there British and in your price range i know Gus G of OZZY loves them and ozzy blew up on the Marshall tone with randy

But if your into Newer metal bands id go with 6L6 power tubes but thats just me, they have a great overdrive sound that comes in strong and thick

now if you really want a head and stack just dont buy a solid state look hard for one in your price range with tubes and remember you can always change out your cab for a new or used one point being you should really worry about what type Head your buying and if anything get a decent cab for your birthday or work more days be more worried about the head your buying........ but remember you wouldn't have to worry about the cab part if you went Combo.
also remember you do not need 100 watts!
#7
P.S its bin along time since i posted on this forum like 5 years ago back then i was guitarslinger. so thank you for my first post again RedWolf and i look foward to participating on this fourm yall.
#8
I can promise you that you do not need a halfstack for what you're trying to achieve whatsoever. You can get just as effective results with a combo.

The MG's are a pile of junk. As are many of the cheap halfstacks. they're all show and no go. I would suggest getting something like a 6505 combo and upgrade the tubes/speakers. Great sounding amp, especially if you're willing to do some mods to the tonestack and heat the bias up a little.
Quote by money321654
TUBES! TUBES! TUBES! PowerTubes and tubes play the biggest part in given your amp its character sound theres much more in a amp then tubes i assure you but Tubes Play a big part in the sound. Now the reason why we all say EWWWW to MARSHAL MG is because its SOLID STATE ..... YUCK!

That's actually not the reason why they suck. They suck because they just sound like shit, regardless of if it's a solid state amp or not.

There are plenty of examples of solid state amps that sound awesome. Kemper, Axe FX etc. But obviously you aren't going acquire an Axe FX for $700.
now if you really want a head and stack just dont buy a solid state look hard for one in your price range with tubes and remember you can always change out your cab for a new or used one point being you should really worry about what type Head your buying and if anything get a decent cab for your birthday or work more days be more worried about the head your buying

This is really ignorant. Not saying that getting the best head you can afford is necessary bad advice, but the importance of a good cabinet cannot be understated. The speakers in the cabinet are especially critical. Different speakers totally do make the difference between an amp that sounds like shit and an amp that sounds good.
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#11
Quote by Redwolf131987

(a) Why are the MG100 bad quality? (b) I'm also getting a Maxon over drive extreme pedal, I think that would improve the overall sound?


(a) they don't sound good, and i think they have the reputation of being unreliable. there's stuff for the same price which sounds better, even with the lower wattage cheaper versions, and especially for the higher wattage and head and cab versions you can get genuinely good stuff for the same amount of money or less.

(b) Not much. You're still limited by the amp. And overdrive pedals tend to work better with tube amps, especially if you're using them as boosts (which you usually are for metal).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#12
For a half stack, the best I can do at that budget would be a used Peavey JSX Head and 412 cabinet. Make sure the cabinet is the JSX as well - those speakers are supposed to have a Celstion V30 feel to them. Do a search on Guitar Center's website for "Used JSX" and have fun. The JSX is very versatile and kicks ass.

You will probably want a boost pedal as well and the Joyo Vintage Overdrive does the trick nicely for $30 off of Amazon.

Make sure you also buy a SPEAKER CABLE to connect the head to the cabinet - DO NOT USE AN INSTRUMENT CABLE - though they look the same and have the same connectors.

Start saving for a completely new set of preamp and power tubes. I suggest Eurotubes.com.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#13
Great advice. I've narrowed it down to two choices between either a Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo Guitar Electric Guitar Amplifier
or BUGERA 333XL INFINIUM head & BUGERA 212TS cabinet. I'm leaning towards getting the Bugera head and cabinet, mostly because I want to be able to jam at some small gigs. At least for now until I could put down a good $4,000-$6,000 on some quality Marshall heads and cabinets. Is the Peavey 6505 combo good enough for a live show?
Last edited by Redwolf131987 at Jan 11, 2017,
#14
Get a used Peavey 6505 212. You could if you desperately want a Marshall... Track down a used Marshall jcm 2000 tsl 212. People have a love hate relationship with the tsl though. Either amp will do what you want and used will fall into your price range. The 6505 112 is a decent amp but you should try to get the USA 212 rather than the chinese 112 at your price point.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#15
Quote by Redwolf131987
Great advice. I've narrowed it down to two choices between either a Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo Guitar Electric Guitar Amplifier
or BUGERA 333XL INFINIUM head & BUGERA 212TS cabinet. I'm leaning towards getting the Bugera head and cabinet, mostly because I want to be able to jam at some small gigs. At least for now until I could put down a good $4,000-$6,000 on some quality Marshall heads and cabinets. Is the Peavey 6505 combo good enough for a live show?


the 6505+ combo would be fine for gigging. I know that getting the big head and cab seems like the "metal" thing to do but it is unnecessary. often bands like the ones you mentioned have a bunch of stuff on stage for show and a smaller amp that is miced backstage. another option may be something like a Peavey JSX or Ultra 2x12 combo (I use an Ultra) which would be in your budget (used both are out of production)
#17
Quote by Redwolf131987
Great advice. I've narrowed it down to two choices between either a Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo Guitar Electric Guitar Amplifier
or BUGERA 333XL INFINIUM head & BUGERA 212TS cabinet. I'm leaning towards getting the Bugera head and cabinet, mostly because I want to be able to jam at some small gigs. At least for now until I could put down a good $4,000-$6,000 on some quality Marshall heads and cabinets. Is the Peavey 6505 combo good enough for a live show?

I'll repeat. You do not need a half stack for what you're doing. Combos are perfectly fine for gigs. You're going to mic the cabinet if you're doing a gig anyway. At least you are if you want to sound decent to your audience.

They could do with some upgrades, such a new speaker and new tubes, but that's typical for amps of that price range and once you do it, its a good metal amp. You can also do mods to it later down the line that can make it sound awesome.
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#18
If it was me, I'd get a 6505+ 112 combo or a 6505 2 X 12 combo used, then upgrade the speaker(s) to Eminence Swamp Thangs.

Even the 6505+ 112 in stock form would blow a Marshall MG "halfstack" off the stage (I know, because I've had both -- the 1 X 12 Peavey RAPES any MG). Do NOT buy a Marshall MG.

The 6505 2X12 combo needs fewer upgrades, but a boost pedal would be the first step I'd take. All 5150s/6505s strongly benefit from having an EQ pedal in the loop to a) tame some of the fizz in the upper frequencies b) cut some of the "boxy" mids in the 500hz region.

I get an absolutely crushing death metal tone out of both my 6505+ 112 and my 6505 head. Again, an MG won't even touch them. If you must go Marshall, go for a JCM 800 or DSL 100. But even then, Marshalls tend to need pedals to get into death metal territories.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#19
Redwolf131987
Just a heads up that the 333XL is a clone of the Peavey JSX. The actual JSX is tried and tested and works great. The Bugeras, not so much.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#20
We decided on getting a pair of BUGERA 333xl and Marshall MG412A, they are both 120watt but would they have good compatibility? Or should we just go with the BUGERA 333 head and BUGERA 212 cabinet?
#21
the mg cabs are pretty much garbage, i think.

i'd rather have a good 2x12- plywood construction and good speakers (e.g. celestion vintage 30s).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
Quote by Redwolf131987
We decided on getting a pair of BUGERA 333xl and Marshall MG412A, they are both 120watt but would they have good compatibility? Or should we just go with the BUGERA 333 head and BUGERA 212 cabinet?


pretty much any head can go with any cab so that's not an issue. Dave_Mc is correct in that the marshall cab you mentioned is cheap junk. get a decent 2x12 cab. your ears and your back will appreciate it.
#26
Quote by Redwolf131987
Ok. Taking your advice on the Marshall MGs, what about the Marshall MX212? It says these are mono cabs?


way better. some 4x12 cabs can be used in stereo. this cab is mono only. not a big deal at all.
#27
I'd go with the Bugera 333XL Infinium, I've been playing around with a TriRec Infinium for the past few years just to see if the tube life thing worked and to see how long it took to break down, So far its still kicking ass, and to be honest I like it a lot, So much for the myth that they break down the day after the warranty expires, As to the 6505 everyone on this site seems to rave about? Ehh... Not impressed, I think the TriRec's better, But then again I also use a Kustom Double Cross, That thing makes the little boys with the 6505's go hide under they're beds, So yea I know a thing or two about high gain amps, Now for some words of wisdom, Avoid the budget Chinese made Marshalls like the plague, If you cant drop the whole wad on a British made class 5 your wasting your money, just buy a Bugera as they're probably more dependable anyway, My amp Guru has a shop full of them turds, and 99% of the time he turns them away, Cheaper to buy a new one than to fix this one kid,
#28
Problem with the mx series from marshall is the construction. They are MDF which not the most rugged and durable material in the world if you plan to gig.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#29
T00DEEPBLUE
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
I'll repeat. You do not need a half stack for what you're doing. Combos are perfectly fine for gigs. You're going to mic the cabinet if you're doing a gig anyway. At least you are if you want to sound decent to your audience.

They could do with some upgrades, such a new speaker and new tubes, but that's typical for amps of that price range and once you do it, its a good metal amp. You can also do mods to it later down the line that can make it sound awesome.


that first part was a great ..... o wait a minute thats what i said earlier GUY you copy great advice. and also when i said try not to worry so much on cabs its because you can easily switch out the speakers. lol how did you not get that its so much easier to swap speakers then it is to swap expensive heads.
i never said they didnt matter of course they matter lol its just theres a reason why amp heads are more money then cabs.......soo now your the ignorant one Gengar.

also SOLID STATE AMPS DONT COMPARE TO TUBES i never said anything about Digital Rack mounts like Axe fx i said Solid state amps even if he had the money for an AXE fx you think he wants to buy a rack mount lol thats bad advice. marshall mg's Do suck because it is a cheap solid state amp its completely obvious Marshalls with tubes don't suck and yet they made a solid state model and it sucks. its totally the reason why
(so please oh wise one tell me why all mg's suck if its not the solid state)
With that being said im sure if you looked hard you could find some that sound good but i guess i should of originally said they will never beat an amp with Tubes.

So Red wolf if you do buy the mx212 your gonna get a pair of Celestion 80's and i think they sound bad for metal Compared to celestion 30's i feel the 80's had more of a tight treble sound. (for your price range try the blue Eminence speakers) Also the bands you listen to do not play with 80's.

Seriously though you NEED TO GO TO GUITARCENTER or SAMASH AND LISTEND TO HOW LOUD 100 and 120 WATTS is then smack yourself in the forhead! if your gonna be rythem support your jamBand with good quality Rythem after all its you whos gona be the cornerstone to your brothers playing, you and the drummer will be the foundation for your songs

You dont wanna be stuck buying gear that far exceeds the volume you need when you could of gotten a better sounding amp with less watts and better sound understand? at your price range your sacrificing tone for more watts, only you dont need more watts! Listen to how loud some combo amps can go in person!

Im sorry but you really dont have amp and cab money inless like i said befor you just buy one part now with your money and perhaps save alittle down the road for a cab to which if you dont like the sound of that particular cab you can swap the speakers out all of this of course is speaking in the manner of trying not to buy CRAP and let me assure you theres alotta crap out there its better to wait and buy the right things then it is to be stuck with crap!
#30
Your paragraphs. They don't help your rambling at all. How do you even type so much.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#31
sorry forgot to include this but right now its like if you buy a head your gonna have to buy a cab with shitty speakers personally if your fixed on the bugera now id just wait to collect a little more dough and get good speakers to go with your amp

you have to understand and realize that the music industry tries to cater to everyones price range now that doesn't mean its all good quality sounding and if your buying new you gotta be especially careful. really if you just had an extra 300$ youd be good to buy both new so in that regard save some money yo

mabye you can find a deal on ebay for both though

one last thing if your buying both a new amp and new speakers both things gotta be warn in just a little to get its true sound so like dont be afraid that its not the sound you want. tubes gotta be warmed in a little and speakers need to be warn in a little
#32
sorry just so much to talk about and none of you are explaining it all to someone whos new to this i mean yo the first call signs of it were all there when he asked about the marshall mg. and now he's fixed on the idea of 120 watts this guy should be lucky i just gave him a Cheat sheet to everything he should need to know ..........i did get annoyed at the other guy, he started it though

but as far as informing this guy everything he needs to know i acutally think there was more that could of bin said but hes listening yo did you see his amp selection it has EL34's and its compatible with 6L6 so the dude is listening i actually think thats a great find for him cause if he doesnt like on how it sounds after the tubes and speakers have bin warn in he can switch them out for 6L6 and start his tone journey from there
#33
Drugs are fun.
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#34
I'm not even going to bother with this guy. He needs to start drinking decaf.

Suffice to say that everything he's said is either totally wrong or overgeneralising to the point of being of no use to anyone.
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#35
KailM If OP ever wants to play clean I'd stay away from the 6505 and get a Blackstar. That said a 6505 will nail the Carcass "Heartwork" rhythm guitar tone.
I'd go with one of these the dirty is closer to Marshall than the Peavy, but it can get pretty modern, I can only imagine how much a nice OD will make it sound. The clean is crystalline. The ISF knob is a really cool thing because it changes the color of the distortion. I used one at a guitar center to test a guitar I was going to buy and it had a nice wide variety of tones and really nice built in reverb. The guitar center I was in had these used/clearence price for like $650.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HTSTAGE60C?adpos=1o4&creative=55281441601&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=HTSTAGE60C&gclid=CjwKEAiAtefDBRDTnbDnvM735xISJABlvGOvXGMvOSU97-eVOBDZvzkaksds7UoH9DqkbuOH2MyL4hoCeD_w_wcB

Another note Blackstar is made up largely of former Marshall employees. Those bands that use classic Marshalls the closest you are gonna get from new or slightly used gear in your price range is going to be Blackstar.
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Last edited by DissonantTimbre at Jan 14, 2017,
#36
^^^Eh, IME the 6505+ can get quite nice cleans. It really helps to use a reverb pedal and some delay + using a slightly lower gain tube like a 5751 in V1 really warms up the tone (and helps the distortion tones as well). The regular 6505 struggles a bit more in the clean department though. The distortion tones, compared to the blackstar HT series---well, personally I think the Peaveys blow them away.

Edit: Here's a song/intro track I did a while back using my 6505+. If you can overlook the fact that I got a little carried away with the delay you can hear what I think is a pretty nice clean tone: https://soundcloud.com/kailm-1/a-sky-blackened-by-carrion-birds-new-version
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
Last edited by KailM at Jan 14, 2017,
#37
Quote by KailM
The MG cab, like the MG head, is garbage.


This.
Bass Gear:

Mensinger: Speesy
Fender Precision 1989 (CIJ Rosewood)
Fender Steve Harris (CIJ)
Lakland J Sonic 5
Epiphone Explorer
Maruszczyk (custom) Jake

Ashdown CTM 100
#38
Thanks! All you guys gave very helpful advice. I agree on the not needing the wattage/loudness of 4x12 cabinet, my 2x12 behrenger combo is already very loud cranked all the way, my friend lives two blocks away and he heard me jamming outside full blast on 4th of July until the cops got called on me Lol. He said he thought there was a concert going on. I'm going to look for better deals and weigh my options out more carefully, I kinda rushed into this, I should at least go to my local guitar stores and try out the amps you guys mentioned.
#39
Quote by DissonantTimbre
KailM If OP ever wants to play clean I'd stay away from the 6505 and get a Blackstar.

Meh.

I used to have that view but then I modded the preamp of my 6505+ to that of a Fender Bassman's and now it sounds great.

Pretty sure that doesn't exactly count though.
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I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
#40
Quote by Redwolf131987
Thanks! All you guys gave very helpful advice. I agree on the not needing the wattage/loudness of 4x12 cabinet, my 2x12 behrenger combo is already very loud cranked all the way, my friend lives two blocks away and he heard me jamming outside full blast on 4th of July until the cops got called on me Lol. He said he thought there was a concert going on. I'm going to look for better deals and weigh my options out more carefully, I kinda rushed into this, I should at least go to my local guitar stores and try out the amps you guys mentioned.


Smart move.
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