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#1
Hey fellas, I'm new to the forum and been playing off and on for a few years now, but with all the awesome equipment out there, this decision is very hard. The type of music that I like to play varies from classic rock to metal, but I don't play anything heavier than like Pantera or Metallica/Megadeth type stuff, and no lighter than Pink Floyd/Aerosmith/Rolling Stones. Like to play some 80s metal as well... like Def Leppard, Dokken, Ratt, Winger, Ozzy, Skid Row, GnR, Queensryche. I use an Esp guitar with Emg 81 and 85 active pickups and will be playing in my home only. I'm looking at combo 112s, 212s, half stacks and very much open to any and all suggestions! trying to keep an open mind, if ya know what I mean. I'd like to stay under 12 hundred dollars, but my comfort zone would be 8 hundred and below..new or used! versitality would be great, but not an absolute must. I'd like an amp that I wouldn't need to use a distortion pedal with, also weight doesn't matter because it's not leaving my basement or bedroom. I'd just like to thank you guys in advance and really hope that you guys can steer me in the right direction. I don't have but one decent music shop around me, but it's more than an hour and a half away and all they deal with is mainly Fender, not that it's a bad amp or anything, but it's just not my cup of tea.
#2
do you play a pretty even mix of all of that or do you play one style more or less?

how quietly do you have to play at home?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#3
marshall's DSL line may be right up your alley.

laney has some nice offerings however i don't have a lot of experience with them.

Peavey JSX is good for versatility, and under budget.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
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Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#4
Dave_Mc I actually play a bit of all I had mentioned, but I would have to say that I'm more partial to the heavier distorted music...if that helps...sorry man! It's really hard for me to explain, been looking at the Peavey combos 6505+, 5150 iii, jsx, Laney iron heart, Marshall dsl40c with the creamback, but i'm just still not sure which one that I could get the most organic tone and or distortion out of. Being that I'm only playing at home and not out, I doubt that I'd need anything over 50 or 60 watts, and naturally I don't wanna be a real dick to my neighbors because they are decent folks, so maybe something that sounds good with the volume between 1 and say 4 or 5. On Tuesdays and Thursdays I can crank the volume as loud as I want, my isn't home
#5
trashedlostfdup I've heard some positives about them man, can you get decent dirt out of that sucker, or would i need to eq it or run an overdrive in front? How does the Peavey jsx combos differ from say like the 6505+ or the EVH 5150 iii?
#6
thanks

do you mean the heavier 80s metal type stuff you listed? if so i'd probably try to get something in the hot rod marshall ballpark for those type of tones, and they norrmally work pretty well for the classic rock stuff too. only problem is i'm not too well up on USA pricing and i haven't tried all the options which are available there.

if you mean heavier than that then the 6505 etc. is probably worth a try.

what sounds good at low volume is pretty personal, what one person likes another doesn't unfortunately, you really ideally need to try the stuff out at the kind of volume you're likely to be playing at usually (and don't forget it sounds quieter in the shop than it will at home!).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#7
Hmmm...

A Jet City might get you the heavier stuff on the cheap, but may not give you the same quality lower gain tones.

Potentially better, more tonally flexible options include products like:

Carvin V3, V3M or Legacy
Orange TH30 (and others)
Mesa Transatlantic 30 (and others)*


* Now, I'm NOT a Mesa expert like some of the others in here, so I don't know which ones in their line would be better...but there ARE better ones.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#8
Quote by 1eyedwillie
Dave_Mc I actually play a bit of all I had mentioned, but I would have to say that I'm more partial to the heavier distorted music...if that helps...sorry man! It's really hard for me to explain, been looking at the Peavey combos 6505+, 5150 iii, jsx, Laney iron heart, Marshall dsl40c with the creamback, but i'm just still not sure which one that I could get the most organic tone and or distortion out of. Being that I'm only playing at home and not out, I doubt that I'd need anything over 50 or 60 watts, and naturally I don't wanna be a real dick to my neighbors because they are decent folks, so maybe something that sounds good with the volume between 1 and say 4 or 5. On Tuesdays and Thursdays I can crank the volume as loud as I want, my isn't home


6505 is a modern metal amp. would do what you want but not perfectly. JSX tends toward a smother distortion sound but the crunch channel would be good for 80s stuff. marshall DSL40c would be a good bet. works best with an overdrive in front but that is how it was done back in the day. also gives you better control over the distortion.
#9
Dave_Mc

I tend to lean in the heavier 80s type of music. Though my favorite bands vary, I do find myself gravitating more towards playing stuff like GnR, (early) Van Halen, (later Metallica music. What would be good examples of hotter Marshall models, and would it make more sense to go for excellent condition - mint condition used amps, or should I lean more towards new? I would really prefer to get something not necessarily loud, but something with a lot of mid to low end thump! like that Metallica' esq black album type of chugging sound, yet be able to get that razor sharp EVH distorted tone when needed, if that makes any sense whatsoever...lol. cleans are not as important as having that holy grail "it factor" distorted sharp thump...sorry! I'm probably making you guys pull your hair out by now with my indecisive posts...sorry fellas!!
#11
monwobobbo

Have you ever tried any of the Peavey amps that you had mentioned and or know anyone who has, and does that Marshall have the stones to take on the heavier type of music? how 'bout the Laney line of amps like the irt iron heart or even maybe the evh 5150iii?
#12
I think all but the newest V3 and Legacy amps are available in some kind of combo. I've seen Legacy 1s & 2s as combos, but not 3s.

On a certain level, I prefer the convenience of combos, but I'm personally venturing into heads & cabs this year because of space issues.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#13
Quote by 1eyedwillie
monwobobbo

Have you ever tried any of the Peavey amps that you had mentioned and or know anyone who has, and does that Marshall have the stones to take on the heavier type of music? how 'bout the Laney line of amps like the irt iron heart or even maybe the evh 5150iii?


yeah I've tried the amps that I've talked about. I own a Peavey Ultra which is the model that the JSX is based on. the 5150 and the 6505 are pretty much the same amp. the 5150 is just older. the 5150iii is Fender's updated version of the 5150. all will work for what you want. we don't have a Laney dealer in my areas so not much experience with those. the DSL40c can handle all that you mentioned (when paired with an overdrive although that is recommended with any of those amps). "tone of the gods" perhaps not but it will work fine on the lower end of your budget.
#14
monwobobbo

Hmmmm....interesting man. Is it true about the dsl40c ' s stock speaker being that lame, or does it correct itself after the break-in period, or would it make more sense to just go with the creamback? Reasons why I ask is that I'd like to make sure that I can get and or install a speaker that wouldn't be too fizzy and that would give me more of vicious growl and thump rather than a fizzy or over distorted/muddy sound. Is there a major difference between the stock speaker, creamback and say the vintage 30, or would you recommend something with more guts for that hard rock/metal tone?

As for the 6505+ versus the 5150iii do I go for the newer model, or look into the older ones, is there a vast difference in quality or tones? also, I had read a few reviews that there had been issues with the 6505+ over heating, or is that just a load of crap?
#16
Quote by 1eyedwillie
monwobobbo

Hmmmm....interesting man. Is it true about the dsl40c ' s stock speaker being that lame, or does it correct itself after the break-in period, or would it make more sense to just go with the creamback? Reasons why I ask is that I'd like to make sure that I can get and or install a speaker that wouldn't be too fizzy and that would give me more of vicious growl and thump rather than a fizzy or over distorted/muddy sound. Is there a major difference between the stock speaker, creamback and say the vintage 30, or would you recommend something with more guts for that hard rock/metal tone?

As for the 6505+ versus the 5150iii do I go for the newer model, or look into the older ones, is there a vast difference in quality or tones? also, I had read a few reviews that there had been issues with the 6505+ over heating, or is that just a load of crap?


creamback would be better. as for the 5150/6505 well the 5150 was all US made the 6505 head was until recently the combo always made in china.
#17
Some great advice in here and I'll add another - Mesa Dual Rec ROADSTER / ROADKING.

Awesome versatility - 12 modes (some repeated) across 4 completely independent channels. Fender sparkly cleans, classic tweed overdrive, blues, 80s crunch, thrash, modern metal, etc and does them all really well.

I picked up a Roadster 212 combo in mint condition - footswitch, cover, manual, original Mesa tubes, set of JJs installed - for $1100 off of Craigslist.

It weighs 99 lbs so good thing you won't be moving it up and down stairs often!
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#18
#19
Hey fellas, been doing more extended research on several amps that you guys threw at me, and so far (to my ears) a few that are capturing my interest that I had listened to on youtube...in no favorite order were......


1.Peavey 6505 plus 112 combo

2. Marshall dsl40c combo

3. Orange dark terror with the 2x12 cab

4. Evh 5150iii 112 combo

5. Laney irt iron heart 112 or 212 combo

6. Peavey jsx combo

Checked out new and used and a few others as well. Still doing a bit more research before I pull the trigger. I know it's not a life or death decision, but I'm in no hurry whatsoever! right now I'm using my Marshall vs232 212 combo and my new Esp ltd m-h 1000 deluxe with an 81 and 85, the amp I'm presently using is ok! but I've had it since the fall season of 2000, but even though it's in like new condition, I'm gonna throw 'er on ebay, need something a different flavor..if ya know what I mean lol.

Thank you fellas So much for for all the help, and if you would PLEASE keep 'em coming, you all have been a huge help so far as the search will continue.
#20
you might have to decide which is more important... gnr and early van halen are very marshally, but metallica (even black album metallica) is maybe a bit more modern-sounding than that. though the emgs will help with the heavier stuff.

i agree that having something with a good od channel is a good idea, but being willing to boost with an od pedal it rather than totally ruling out pedals is likely a good idea too- as monwobobbo said, that's what they did back in the day.

i'd say a 2x12 (closed-back) cabinet is a good idea too, unless you can find closed-backed 2x12 combos.

speakers are very important too, if my laney gh50L is anything to go by (it's basically a hot-rodded jcm800 as far as i'm aware), i can pretty much vary whether it sounds classic rock or modern metal by the speakers i use.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
Hey all...hope everyone had a nice weekend.

Had a nice couple of days to continue my research, and now I'm a little wiser, but even more confused..lol, but all joking aside, it pays to do your research..not to mention getting some good advice from you fellas and I'm extremely grateful that they have such a place that folks like myself can come to for help.

Anyhow, getting back to business here. Even though I may just have added to the confusion, I think at the same time I've given myself a broader spectrum with even more flavorful options.

I'm really digging that Peavey 6505 plus combo 112..pretty sweet man! but I'm also salivating over that darn Marshall dsl40c and that Laney irt30 as well!! really dug that EVH 5150 iii quite a great deal as well, built like a tank!!

I also checked out the bigger brothers to these amps as well. I saw a couple of nice used Mesa's and an Engl all to which are 112 combos...nice amps as well..wow!!! even looked at some pretty cool Randall combos and heads as well as speaker cabs, but I wasn't too crazy about their solid states, but don't get me wrong, they seem like we'll built machines and decent companies, but i would just have to stick with tube on them as well.

do any of you guys feel that any of these choices (based on my styles of music) are right up my alley, or have you any other ideas that I may have over looked, I mean I think I pretty much have it narrowed down to the flavor, but it'd probably be a good idea for me to just go out on a weekend to a guitar center with my guitar and let it rip..no!? What's your guy's honest opinion with this?
#22
Dave_Mc

I hear ya man! but there's gotta be something out there that'll eventually grab me I'm hoping anyhow lol.

I even gave the modeling amp route a look at awhile back, but from what I read, a lot of guys claim that they don't tolerate active pickups very well and sound sort of digital too, is that the consensus, or is that claim just a bit over fabricated? I really don't know much about them..you?
#23
^^^FWIW -- I think most of the amps you're talking about could make you very happy. One thing I always recommend is getting a quality EQ pedal like an MXR 10-band and run it in the loop. I will never be without one, no matter what rig I have. Like you, I play a wide variety of genres -- but gravitate toward metal...and the extreme end of metal. When I started playing though, I spent a lot of time playing blues, classic rock, and 80s rock, since I grew up in that era. I have metal amps (a 6505 head and a 6505+ 112), but I've always been able to still play those other genres -- especially with the EQ pedal. It really allows me to dial in a tone. The tones I get might not be perfect for nailing every album tone -- but I'll be damned if it doesn't sound good anyway.

If it was me, I'd be looking for something with versatility built-in -- and I'd be strongly considering an EVH 5150 III (50 watt) or a JSX. Both have great cleans, mid-gain crunch, and over-the-top balls. If you need even more balls in your tone, then consider a 6505+ -- but the cleans are not as good as those other two (but in my experience quite workable -- especially with reverb and delay pedals).
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#24
KailM

I grew up in the 70s and 80s myself, so I hear ya man, but I've dealing with lower back issues pretty much my whole life and have been an off and on type of player because of it, not to mention being out of the loop for awhile now didn't help.

I do have to agree with you that it just may well be that a more versatile amp such as the EVH 5150 iii or the other two just might do the trick for me.

Now is there a major difference between the jsx and the 6505, and as far as tone is concerned, is there much of a change between say a 112 and 212 combo? the a map that I do choose will be strictly for home use and to be perfectly honest, I don't need..or should I say... it doesn't have to be a very loud amp as much as I'd really love to have that tone of a half stack, if you know what I mean!?

I plan on eventually making some speaker and or tube swaps, not to mention investing in some quality stomp box pedals down the road.

There's also a possibility that I just may go the used route and try and snag something that is mint condition or b-stock, any advice or experience with any non new instruments with your musical endeavors?
#25
I have a 5150 (block letter) and a JSX (and 18 other tube amps). the JSX has fantastic cleans. has plenty of gain, but it is voiced differently than the 5150. I use my JSX more often, and is way more versatile, but if you want the 5150 sound, nothing does it like a 5150.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#26
trashedlostfdup


Now correct me if I'm wrong, that's the older version right, and is it AND the jsx USA made, and if not..where are they made and have they been pretty dependable man? do they make a 112 version or only a 212 and would I need to use an od pedal or is that built into the amp itself?

Any experiences with any of the Laney, Marshall, or Randall tube amps, if so, any models that you'd recommend me checking out?


By the way....nice video man, like the ol' workshop =)
#27
Quote by 1eyedwillie
trashedlostfdup


Now correct me if I'm wrong, that's the older version right, and is it AND the jsx USA made, and if not..where are they made and have they been pretty dependable man? do they make a 112 version or only a 212 and would I need to use an od pedal or is that built into the amp itself?

Any experiences with any of the Laney, Marshall, or Randall tube amps, if so, any models that you'd recommend me checking out?


By the way....nice video man, like the ol' workshop =)


thanks!

my 5150 is the block letter, which is one of the earliest versions. in many/most opinions its the crem da la crem of 5150's. it is USA made. AFIK the 6505 (note non +) is mostly identical. they are marketed as identical, but i think that there is a difference. the 5150ii, was developed after the 5150 and is the same as the 6505+ with a better clean channel.

my JSX is American, I THINK they all were, but i can't say i am positive. i love that amp though. i have many other very nice amps next to it (or in the other room) that are more high end, but i end up going the the JSX the most. its convenience mainly, but its good all across the board.

in my experience, my JSX sounds better at lower levels than my 5150 if that is a concern. that is NOT saying that the 5150 can't sound good quiet, it does fine.

for $1200, i would get a (used) Splawn Nitro. i have one (haven't taken it out in a while) but it is just flat out an awesome amp, and it is spec'd better than anything mass produced. Scott Splawn is the guy who founded the company, and they operate on the east coast and are hand built by (last time i checked) three or four guys (including scott). One really cool thing is that if you want to, you can get Scott on the phone, yep, not some random tech or outsourced customer service- you get scott. i have talked to him twice when i had a question, and he is straight up a nice cool guy. take a look, you won't be disappointed.

another amp i like is the fryette sig:X, it is one of the most flexible amps I own. used, they may be slightly over your budget on the used market, but worth looking at. the pittbull UL is awesome too, i will buy one someday.

look into rivera knuckle head tre (i have an earlier knucklehead) and it is another flat out badass amp.

for your budget, i would hate to get something like a DSL to be honest, as the above mentioned amps are superior in nearly every way.

watch some demos and do some research.

WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#28
Laney have the VH and TT series heads which are both very nice if you can find used. The VH head is the one with higher gain that bands like Opeth used.
The new Laney amps - look at IRT series, then go depending on the wattage that you need. For bedroom you can go with a 20 watter or so and should be okay to push over a drummer. I have a Laney LC15 that is a fantastic amp - can go from clean to blues to hard rock and with overdrive into metal, amazing reverb. The VC15 is slightly higher gain amp, which does metal without the overdrive in front, still very versatile. The L and V series go up in wattage as well, to LC30 and VC30 and LC50 and VC50 (might be wrong?) I've heard people really loving the LC50 heads if you can find one.

Carvin V3 and V3m is also another amp that might be worth looking into as it does everything.

For your budget I might look at Mesa Express 5:25 or 5:50 combo used as that is a fantastic amp. Another lovely option is the Mesa Mini Rectifier head with a 1x12 or 2x12. I got mine for about $800 and a Jet City Eminence cab 1x12 for $125. Both sound fantastic and this is the amp that I now play the most. Amazing cleans and the lead channel on vintage is pure "buttah".

In case you want to check it out, left channel is the Mesa on this song:
https://soundcloud.com/egregoreband/horrid-progeny
This was recorded with the Mesa as well on one channel of rhythm and AOR Laney on the other, leads thru the Mesa:
https://soundcloud.com/egregoreband/father-of-deceit
#29
trashedlostfdup


Thanks a million man!! Feeling like a kid in a candy store hahaha.....I'll be checking out those you'd mentioned.

Hope you aren't getting too annoyed with all the questions..lol I'm just afraid to make a knee-jerk reaction and pulled the trigger on something that I'll regret later..if ya know what I'm saying!

Thanks again man! Tty soon I'm sure lol
#30
diabolical


Thanks a lot man!! You fellas have been a godsend..let me tell ya!

Like I told trashed, I'm sure I'll be bothering you fellas some more, and I apologize for asking such noob questions, and prolly should get my lame rear end to a guitar center this coming weekend.
#31
Quote by 1eyedwillie
KailM
Now is there a major difference between the jsx and the 6505, and as far as tone is concerned, is there much of a change between say a 112 and 212 combo? the a map that I do choose will be strictly for home use and to be perfectly honest, I don't need..or should I say... it doesn't have to be a very loud amp as much as I'd really love to have that tone of a half stack, if you know what I mean!?


1. Difference between JSX and 6505 lead channels: JSX is smoother gain, but still quite a bit of gain on tap. Lead tones when playing on the lead channel are beautiful, liquidy leads. The amp was designed and made for Joe Satriani, after all. For chugs and death/thrash metal riffs, there is still quite a bit of low end thump, but not as much as a 6505. The 6505 (especially the regular version) has more low-end thump/CHUG and more gain overall. There is more of an abrasive (yet pleasing to my ears) grind in the low-end and low-mids. It just sounds more aggressive, mean, and nasty, for lack of better terms. Leads can still be beautiful, however. The 6505+ is somewhere in between the JSX and regular 6505; smoother/more refined than a 6505, but more aggressive and ballsy than a JSX. I hope that helps. The JSX is the most versatile, as it has literally awesome cleans. And when I played one, I thought I could probably get by with it for death metal (which is saying there's still plenty of gain and aggression.) My 6505s are more brutal though...

2. Regarding 112 vs. 212 combos or cabs: Yes, there is a pretty big difference in tone between them. For home use, a 112 will certainly do just fine. But 212s are bigger and have a substantially better low-end response. And you can play around with mixing speakers. At some point, you'll want to play loud, and a 112 kind of holds an amp back regarding metal tones especially. 212s are the real deal. A 4 X 12 has even more low-end response. If you're going with a combo amp though, 212 tube combos tend to be HEAVY sumbitches. Even my 6505+ 112 weighed over 60 pounds before I converted it into a head. A 6505 212 combo weighs almost 100 pounds, and has a single handle on top....not the most enjoyable amp to carry around. Other tube 2X12 combos are probably similarly heavy. I think running a head and 212 cab is a far better option, both tonally and for convenience's sake.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#32
KailM

Are you at all familiar with the 6505 plus lunchbox head? Pretty sure that it's like 15 or 20 watts....just curious man.

I was checking out both that and the evh 5150 lunch box a few weeks ago, seems like they're both pretty popular, but I'm not too familiar with them mini heads.

Looks like most guys are either going with the 112 or 212 cabs and a few guys are doing the big 4x12 cabs as well.

What's the difference between the lunch box and the 112 or 212 combos sound wise? I know it'd be easier to carry, but would I be sacrificing a lot in sound, such as low end thump or tone?
#33
^^^Eh...I'm not that big of a fan of lunchbox heads. They mostly run EL84 tubes in the power section and just don't have as tight of a tone at higher volumes. They work for lower volumes but if you ever need to push them to gig volumes you're going to notice that the low end stops increasing as well as it gets mushy. The mids and highs can still get very loud though -- but the sound is incomplete IMO. Even my Peavey Classic 30 suffers from this, but at 30 watts it is approaching enough power to supply low end at pretty high volumes.

But here's the clincher-- amps like the 6505 series get most of their tone from preamp gain which doesn't need to be cranked to sound good. Even my 120 watt 6505 head sounds great at low volumes when it's EQ'd for those volumes. And it sure as hell sounds better than those little amps when it's cranked. I have a 6505+ 112 as well, and to be honest, it's 60 watts can pack almost the same wallop as its bigger brother. But it's running 6l6 tubes just like the 120 watt version.

As for the 112 vs the 212 combos, they have different circuits. The 112 is almost identical to the bigger 6505+ head, but the 212s are based on the original 5150/6505. To put it simply, the original 5150 tone is looser but meaner and nastier, the 6505+ circuit is tighter and more surgical, with more high-mids grind. I modded my 112 to original 5150 specs though and it sounds real close. So they're both good options.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#34
KailM


I see what you're saying. That beast of yours sure sounds awful sweet man, listening to your sound bytes pretty much sealed the deal for me! I'm really liking both the 6505 plus and the 5150 iii, I think that it just may come down to versitality and dependability now man.

Do you think that it would be best for me to go with (depending on which of the two that I decide to go with) the older ones that were USA made, or do you think that it wouldn't make that big of a difference?
#35
When I was shopping for my 6505 120watt head, it was important to me that it was made in the U.S. The one I finally bought was made in 2013, and was made in the U.S. However, they started making all 6505s in China not too long after 2013. All of the 6505+ 112 combos were made in China, I'm pretty sure. I do think the U.S. made amps are higher quality. However, my 112 has served me pretty well -- it is now broken down because I ran old power tubes too long -- not because of a defect.

It sounds like you really need a good clean channel as well as brootz. I think I'd lean toward an EVH 5150 III 50watt head if I were you. It can sound pretty much like a 6505+ but has a very nice clean channel. But a 6505+ 112 is still a really awesome amp as well -- especially modded into a head and with a few other mods. If you check out my Soundcloud page, most of the songs I've done on there are my 6505+ 112. A few of my songs even used it for cleans, which sound surprisingly good.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#36
KailM


I'd like to get as much versitality out of an amp as I can, but if it doesn't have crystal clear cleans like a Fender, it's not at all gonna be a deal breaker...truthfully! I actually prefer bluesy cleans anyhow, I was never really into the Fender/Roland type of clean sound..not my flavor either man.

If I were to go the combo route with the 5150iii, is either of them USA made, referring to the 112 & 212?

I was checking out some used Jcm 800 Marshall 212 combos out (not to mention some jvm's over on the guitar center's website, just to keep my options open, sh!#! the way I'm looking at it, I just might get both the 5150 or 6505+ and a jvm or Jcm used, that way I can take care of both my 80s metal and beyond, it certainly wouldn't be the first time that I went that route man.
#37
Don't forger Mesa Triple Crown heads - IMO they really rolled great brit voiced amp in one package.
I'm torn between that and the Mark V for my next gigging amp purchase.

I have several smaller amps for recording and honestly was surprised how close the Mesa Mini Rectifier to the Dual Rectifier, even at louder volumes. No must, either.
#38
diabolical


I hear ya man. I haven't quite yet made up my mind whether or not that I'm going with a combo or head and cab, guess it'll solely depend on my funds..if ya know what I mean. I'd like to stay under $1,200, but if I can get a hold of something around the $800 mark, that'd be even cooler man!

But I'd be cool with (if it's a sweet enough deal) going up to that $1000ish price range if need be.

If I end up the head and cab route, (since it'll only be for bedroom/basement) just like the combo, I'd really prefer to keep the wattage within that 20-50or60 watt range....if I can "lol.
#40
diabolical


Thanks man! I was actually looking at a few over on guitar center's website.

Of them two, which one has the better distortion and thumping mids as well as lower end rumble?

I liked them sound clips too man...nice!!! reminds me a lot like the 6505 or the xxx in a way.

Are the Mesa's USA made and are they fairly dependable? I mean not that it's a complete deal breaker...just curious.

I was looking at some used Engl amp combos, but unfortunately I'm not familiar with them either =(
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