#1
I'm curious as to what makes a bigger difference, speaker size (and amount of speakers) vs volume.

I play in a metal band, with a drummer, bassist and vocalist. During rehearsal I notice how much I get covered up. I've used a 212, a 412, the 412 & 212 together, as well as two 10" frfr monitors. In all situations I've been covered up except for when I used the 212 and 412 together. The 212 and 412 we're ran at 100 watts each, where as the 10" frfr Rab at 600 watts each.

My bassist uses an 810 ampeg cab with a 1000 watt head.
And our drummer uses sabian cymbals (don't think brand matter too much here)

I'm curious, is the amount of speakers more relevant to volume than overall wattage? I don't want to haul two cabinets around to every rehearsal and show.

Preferably, I'd like to use an frfr monitor.

Is this possible?
Would I need to run a 12" or 15" instead?

Thanks in advance!
#3
You should be perfectly fine with just a 2x12 or 4x12.
More speakers aren't necessarily louder, mostly "fuller" sounding.

What is your amp and cab setup?
Are you scooping your mids? If so, stop doing that and turn them up! That makes a huge difference!

Mids are important for the guitar. The low end is filled up by the bass, kick and toms, the highs are covered by the cymbals, and the guitar is a midrange instrument. So you would fit right in middle. Which is why you shouldn't scoop them. A hair of a scoop is fine though. But you don't need as much scoop as you think in a band situation.
#4
Liaztraht

My rig is my jackson dka7 into my line 6 helix, into a carbon dcm200 power amp into a carbon gc412 or vx212. Mids are boosted a bit actually (mostly at 2-2.5k)

Granted, our drummer is heavy handed and our bassist likes a clanky tone, so he boosts some midrange to achieve the clank.
Last edited by 77disturbed77 at Jan 31, 2017,
#5
77disturbed77
Well then that is rather odd. Only other thing I can think of is to get everyone to adjust volume and eq to fit as a band. Which can be hard because they have "their" tone, but it needs to fit the band.

You should be able to at least get over the drummer. I also play drums and have had to compete against my own amp for volume. But even with over sized cymbals (20 inch crashes) it was impossible.

You could also try boosting other middle frequencies, or boosting a little more.

When using the cabs, did you have the cab sims off?
#6
Liaztraht

In the band situation, I can hear myself, but even at full volume, I'm only heard when I'm close to the amp. Granted, it is only a 100 watt solid state power amp, which I've used other 100 watt solid state amps and had similar problems with volume. The part that made me curious was that I was still being covered up when using two 600 watt active frfr monitors. Same problem.

The amp setting (on the helix) are bass 5.5, mid 7.6, trebble :6.3 and presence: 5.7. then I'm boosting at 2-2.5k as well.

When running the cabs, the cabinets get a signal that's not affected by the cab sim.
The cab sim is on, but is ran on a different output than where the cab is receiving signal.
#7
I'm not familiar with the functions of the helix or pods all that much. Is their an output volume setting and is there room to turn it up as well?
#8
Liaztraht
The cab sims are not sent to the real cabs I'm using, and when I use the frfr, they are. Cab sims are set at the loudest they will go without clipping and the gain on the frfr is set as loud as it will go without clipping
#9
Quote by Liaztraht
77disturbed77
Well then that is rather odd. Only other thing I can think of is to get everyone to adjust volume and eq to fit as a band. Which can be hard because they have "their" tone, but it needs to fit the band.

You should be able to at least get over the drummer. I also play drums and have had to compete against my own amp for volume. But even with over sized cymbals (20 inch crashes) it was impossible.

You could also try boosting other middle frequencies, or boosting a little more.

When using the cabs, did you have the cab sims off?
This. You're either 3 individuals playing at the same time, in which case, you can be precious about your tone, or you can be a band and work on your sound as a band.
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#10
time to get dspellman in here.
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#11
1) get your bass player to turn down.

2) This is why a tube amp is always so helpful - they cut through. A 30 watt mesa would probably be loud enough.

I would suggest getting a better power amp - it's your only hope if you insist on using the Helix for amp simulation. It's absurd to even consider using more than a 4x12 for volume reasons...that's already overkill.. I use a 1x12 mesa 30 watt and I currently play in a band with two guitars, bass, vocals and a heavy handed drummer - If anything I need to turn down most of the time and we play heavy. I monitor straight from the amp - the master volume on my amp is on 4 most of the time, 5 at the most.

I am guessing the power amp is your issue - if you can find something better give it a shot, otherwise you may want to look into simply getting a tube amp and running your Helix for FX using the 4 cable method.
#12
Your setup sounds slightly complicated but workable. You're running a 4x12 and a 2x12 with a Carvin DCM200L power amp and you're also running a pair of 10" frfr *powered* monitors and you're not getting enough volume out of the rig? At a guess, you don't have your channel volume turned up on the Helix, but we should be able to work through this. What's your headphone volume like on the Helix? Can you PM me?
#13
reverb66

That is an option I've always have had Amin the back of my mind. I used to run a line 6 pod hd500x into a evh 5153 50 watt and kept up with everyone, so it might be the best option for me at this time.

Quote by dspellman
Your setup sounds slightly complicated but workable. You're running a 4x12 and a 2x12 with a Carvin DCM200L power amp and you're also running a pair of 10" frfr *powered* monitors and you're not getting enough volume out of the rig? At a guess, you don't have your channel volume turned up on the Helix, but we should be able to work through this. What's your headphone volume like on the Helix? Can you PM me?


The cabinets and the frfr monitors were never used together at the same time (but I suppose I could try using both together to achieve more volume if I wanted)

The patch on the helix is set as loud as it can go before clipping, so it's not the patch. I had that problem earlier this year but got that solved.