#1
So I am on a metal tone hunt. Aspects from palm muting chugging to solos.

I have guitars with EMGs and double humbuckers.

Basically I have an Orange PPC112 cab. It isn't bad. I have an Orange Tiny Terror and a Marshall DSL15H. I don't have effects loops. I have tried some recording through an SM57 into a basic audio interface https://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Fast-Track-USB-Interface/dp/B002QZ402Q and the sound has never been that great. I am recording through audacity.

Some guitarists I have met suggest that recording at home with what I have isn't such a good idea with mic'ing up the cab and that instead I should just go straight in to my PC through the audio interface and use Amplitude or something like that to emulate the sound I want.

Some other guitarists suggested that my USB interface is dated and I need a better one.

Some other players are suggesting that the dirt channel on the Marshall DSL15H doesn't cut it. Too much gain or something. That I am not going to get a good Marshall tone from it.

Some other players said that the Orange cab isn't a good idea for that Marshall and I need a Marshall cab.

I have also been told I shouldn't add any pedals to the amp. I have also been told that I should add some and that a super overdrive will tighten the sound. I have tried this. Not bad, but still not the tone I am looking for.

My chugging never gets really into sounding like a motorcycle. Like a Sepultura sound. No matter how fast I pick or what I EQ, it always stays a little on the high end. When I play solos often the notes sounds tinny. Like hitting a string without an amp on only that sound louder as opposed to sounding more like an electric guitar solo where the notes sing rather than just sounding like a dead string. Even when I hit harmonics it just sounds cold. I must admit I have better luck on the clean channel with distortion pedals hitting these tones than the ultra gain. Yet I have heard some YouTube videos where it seems people get close to the tone I want no problem. For example -

Anyone been where I am and what did you do to get better tones?
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
#2
Watch the video and read the description that guy tells you exactly how he gets his tone.
#3
Deermonic, did anyone ask you about mic placement? If you have the sound in the room and it's not being reflected on the recording, then it's likely mic placement. Make sure you're NOT emulating a cabinet on the other end, you're already using a mic and you're looking for the sound you actually have in the room.

#4
You should know that a single tracked recorded guitar by itself is not going to sound like it does when it's in a full band mix. The tones you may want while just playing by yourself aren't necessarily the ones that will sound good when recorded and put into a mix.

If you already own an interface & mic, I'd put in the time to learn how to record with them. And then learn how to mix them in a DAW (Reaper is cheap!). Be interesting what you hear when you take your recording and mix it panned stereo and something in the middle. Probably sound a lot chunkier!

To get that old school Metallica tone, I'd try experimenting with the DSL with a clean boost in front. And fight the urge to use a lot of gain to thicken the in room sound. Let the multitracking add girth!

Just look at how he has the amp & OD dialed in.
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#5
Have you tried using an overdrive pedal with the distortion turned off but the level and tone cranked up. It adds a great bite to your chugs .

I like my Mooer greenmile for this.

Edit* went back and re read op
Already tried this.
Last edited by Garris at Feb 28, 2017,
#6
Note also the way that the mic should be angled and the difference between single and double tracked guitars. If you're looking for that sound you get on a cd or mp3, you want to double track at a minimum! It's like your voice. Ever head yourself on a recording and go, "I don't sound like that!" Everybody else goes, "Yes you do." That's because in your head, you get a natural doubling of your voice. You hear it as it sets in your facial mask and after it comes out of your mouth. There's also a barely perceptible delay involved. That's why double tracked vocals with a little reverb sound better than dry vocals on a recording and why famous singers sing to their own tracks live. They are doubling their vocal on the spot, akin to singing with the radio...

You can also mix and match mic positions. Notice that the mic can point directly at or off center of the speaker. This changes the timbre and tone of the guitar sound. So here's another trick they don't tell you. You can play your guitar directly clean and then run the signal into your effects and amp. They call this re-amping a guitar.

Notice how he moves the mic around the speaker at 4 minutes 30 seconds or so to get the tone he's looking for:



Here are some more ways to mic your amp. You've got the right mic, so you're on the right track.



Hope this helps you on your quest to capture your guitar tone.
#7
Thanks.

It's all the above.

Gain on the DSL is the problem. At 2/10 it is already nearing muddy. Anything after that becomes black metal.

My Bass settings was also a problem. I reduced that down to near 2 also. Mids up and Trebs up.

This is completely different to the scooped out mids sound I usually play with the gain up.

I set the OD to 0 and used the volume to bring up the sound, not the gain.

I also started to use my 5-way blade switch a bit better with the EMGs.

Neck EMG for chugging. Bridge EMG for solos.

Total different tone. All the tones are much clearer.
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
#8
Kinda surprised it's muddy at that low gain, but I guess it also depends on how loud you're playing. With any tube amp I've owned, they sound over saturated at low volumes and don't really shine until you turn them up a little.
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#9
Put an OD infront of the amp and run less gain on the amp itself. Mic placement is extremely important and a small change can change the sound entirely. SM57 has a very toppy fizzy sound, which doesn't usually sound great on its own but often sits really well in an overall mix, which is why it's probably the most commonly used mic for guitar, but finding the sweet spot in terms of positioning is important, my amps/cabs all have tape to indicate where the mic goes after I spent some time finding that sweet spot.

People saying your USB interface being dated are talking absolute shite, don't listen to any of that. Personally I don't like recording with an SM57 very much, and I've found myself much preferring using an SM7B. Back in 2005 I recorded guitars on an album with an AT4040 Condensor mic which also turned out really well. Don't be afraid to experiment with mic's and not just stick to the SM57 because of its reputation, sometimes moving away from that can give you what you want because of how much the mic choice influences the overall sound.


Edit : Using that particular Metallica recording you used, very bright recording with not much low end and a bright/tight sounding guitar, sounds like a twangy super strat and it sounds like a close mic'd SM57 near the centre of the cone, but finding the exact sweet spot on your cab will be important. I mentioned an EQ pedal in effects loop but it seems you don't have one, so I guess not.
Cornford Hellcat
Peavey 5150
1994 Ibanez Jem 7V
Last edited by Bigbazz at Feb 28, 2017,
#10
DarthV

The DSL ultra gain channel goes insane after 2/10 with the settings I have. After that its playing black metal. That was what I didn't get. That these amps gain fast and therefore, the old too much gain problem, just became extensive for me.

The volume is what brings the sound up so that the power tubes do their job, but the pre-amp has the distortion at 2/10 and I just use the OD to tighten up the sound and can bring up the gain a bit if I want with it, but don't, hence 0.
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
Last edited by Deermonic at Feb 28, 2017,
#11
What? An amp that has more gain on tap than a 5150/6505? :P By the sounds of it, the DSL15 does but most of it is unusable.
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs