#1
Budget: $500-$1000 to split between either a combo, head + 1x12 cab, or some sort of preamp or modeller or anything that lets me record or play without actually making noise.

Location: MD

Fine with used or online.

Genres: I play mostly metal (Iron Maiden and Metallica type stuff, the occasional Mayhem or Darkthrone) , but I play occasionally with like classic rock bands and stuff but it's not a big deal. 

So I'm graduating HS soon and I'm going to have to part with my 100 watt Laney for something more... modest. I'm not really sure what the best option is. I was looking for a small, like 15-20W Head and getting a 1x12, like that Orange Microterror I think it's called?, but it's kinda pricey and I was thinking about getting a combo amp instead. I've only used like the cheap Spider's and modelling combo amps, so I don't know of any combo amps that are suited for more metal stuff. 

Of course, I could just skip that stuff entirely and have something I could use with headphones or into my laptop. I don't really know about what options would work here. I've seen a couple of youtuber's use the Line 6 POD, and it sounds alright while being fairly cheap, but I didn't really like the Line 6 Spider modelling amp when I was starting out on guitar. On the flip side, I don't want to blow all my money on a nice preamp and not have the option of using a traditional amp...

Anyone have ideas on which solution works best?
#3
I'd go with either the Laney IRT15 or Peavey 6505MH w/ a good 112 cab.  The IRT15 can be switched between 15 and 1 watts.  The 6505mh can be switch between 20/5/1 watts.  1 watt is MORE than enough for any room.  And I believe both amps have an MSDI (Mic Simulated Direct Interface) for your computer / PA system.
#5
I just got a 6505mh. It is switchable between 20 watts, 5, and 1. Also has a direct record out and a dummy load button for headphone playing.
#6
zack7521 Atomic Amplifire is easily the best option in your situation.

The aim of a guitar amplifier is to amplify the guitar's sound. If you're in a situation were you cannot do that without pissing off a ton of people, then one must ask the question of why even buy a guitar amplifer in the first place. Get the best amp sim that fully supports recording without any mics you can possibly afford for your budget. Which the Amplifire delivers.
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#7
Hey, sorry to bump this thread again. I like the 6505MH, but would it be worth looking for a good deal on a Mini Rectifier or is it not too much better than the 6505MH?
#8
I am with TDB on this. get a modeler and use headphones. when you want to make a little more noise, get a powered monitor.
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#9
the mini rectifier is a thousand times better then the 6505mh but it doesn't have the features you need.

honestly a second hand blackstar idcore:beam would be your best option and it doubles as a bluetooth speaker.
that's value.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#10
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
zack7521 Atomic Amplifire is easily the best option in your situation.

The aim of a guitar amplifier is to amplify the guitar's sound. If you're in a situation were you cannot do that without pissing off a ton of people, then one must ask the question of why even buy a guitar amplifer in the first place. Get the best amp sim that fully supports recording without any mics you can possibly afford for your budget. Which the Amplifire delivers.

+1, in your shoes this is a great option. zack7521
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#11
Okay. Any more budget options for a modeling amp than Amplifier? I'm more okay spending on a low wattage head since I can still practice with other people if I need to.
#12
Quote by zack7521
Hey, sorry to bump this thread again. I like the 6505MH, but would it be worth looking for a good deal on a Mini Rectifier or is it not too much better than the 6505MH?


The Mini Recto is a great amp, I own it.

Try the Tech21 TM30 and TM60 solid state amps. Boss Katana is a popular option as well.
#13
I run a small studio where I record bands and teach guitar. As you can imagine though, cranking up amps while teaching isnt exactly good for students hearing, which obviously affects the sound of big tube amps.

What I generally do is run through a speaker attenuator, which basically coverts all that volume into heat, allowing you to crank up even 100watt amps to the point theyll sound good without disturbing your neighbours. A lot of the lunchbox style amps you see these days have one of these built in, but if youre like me and you prefer regular amps, you can get just buy one as a seperate box.

My attenuator is by a small Australian brand called "Big White Monkey", but I'm pretty sure they're a copy of a model made by DR-Z. Pretty sure THD and Weber make some decent ones as well, although they're more expensive and ive never used them personally.

On a side note; some already in this thread have talked about a "dummy load" feature on some amps. For the most part all this is, is the same thing as an attenuator except it's designed to completely replace your speakers altogether. Some attenuators have this feature built in, or if you're handy with a soldering iron, they're actually very very cheap and easy to build yourself.

As for direct recording, no need to worry about any special cab emulators boxes; the easier and cheapest way to record direct is just to use a standard Di in between your head and cab. You can then record that straight into any standard audio interface and use cabinet impulse response software (which can be found for free online) to emulate the cab digitally.

PS: as for 112 cabs I'd highly reccomend an orange PPC112. I have two of them and they're great.
'66 Fender Bassman, '82 Marshall JCM800 4210, '86 Laney AOR 100, '90 Marshall JCM900 MKIII 2500, '97 Marshall JCM600, Silverface Mesa Dual Rectifier, Peavey 6505, Marshall JCM2000 DSL-100, VOX AC30CCH, Marshall JMP-1 + EL34 50/50
Last edited by BillyEatWorld at Mar 21, 2017,
#14
Quote by zack7521
Okay. Any more budget options for a modeling amp than Amplifier? I'm more okay spending on a low wattage head since I can still practice with other people if I need to.

The Atomic Amplifire is pretty much the cheapest thing you can possibly get to a modelling amp that'll nail the tube amp tone well. It totally destroys anything else in its price range.

If you're referring to jamming with other people in the context of a gig, simple. Just plug the Amplifire directly into the PA and off you go.
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#15
or plug it into your own powered speaker. good ones can be had for under $300.

if it has to be a tube head with DI etc blah blah blah, the IRT Studio gets my vote.
and you'd obviously still need a cab to jam with buddies, but you can headphone and di without one.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Mar 21, 2017,
#16
I'd also look at the IRT-Studio.  I'm pretty impressed with mine and posted some sound clips a while back.  
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#18
Normally, I'm one of those who advocates a portable digital modeler (Lone 6 PODs, Korg Pandora's, Boss Micro BR, etc.) or MFX unit (with headphone jack) for quiet practice and recording purposes. I did without an amp for years using Korg & Tascam devices, and Still use them regularly.

But if you have pedals & a cab you like, and you want to be able to jam with others, another option has popped up on my radar: Quilter mini amps.

They're solid state, non-modeling amps that take pedals well. They're voiced to handle more mainstream tones, but can do meta with the right pedals. The 2 smallest- the Microblock 45 and the 101 Mini- have headphone jacks. The 101 is 50-100w, depending on settings, and costs @$299. The Microblock is 33-45w, and costs @$149.

Either will work just fine with any cab you choose, but they also introduced the Frontliner 2x8 cab at NAMM 2017 that can handle up to 200w, and is designed to work as a dock for their "Block" amps. Vids ivecseen of it in action were impressive, but it IS a new product.
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#19
gregs1020 Never been a fan of modellers with powered speakers. Nothing compares to a real cab.

Even a small solid state power amp and a 1x12 would sound a lot better from a guitarists perspective.
'66 Fender Bassman, '82 Marshall JCM800 4210, '86 Laney AOR 100, '90 Marshall JCM900 MKIII 2500, '97 Marshall JCM600, Silverface Mesa Dual Rectifier, Peavey 6505, Marshall JCM2000 DSL-100, VOX AC30CCH, Marshall JMP-1 + EL34 50/50
#20
BillyEatWorldi tend to agree, but impulse response profiles have come a long way. it's one way to tick all of the boxes and a lot more for the OP and any lurkers out there in the same spot. i mean, what college aged kid doesn't want a 1000 watt speaker for their itunes?

like i said before, the IRT Studio is another good option within range. it sounded good with my 112 cab when i had one.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Mar 22, 2017,
#21
gregs1020 Oh yeah I know what you mean. I don't even mic up cabs when recording anymore, because IRS are way more consistent and tweakable.

For on stage (or at home) sound though, its a different story because the biggest issue with powered speakers is that they physically aren't the same as a guitar cab.

I mean the speaker itself may be a different size, and the enclosure most likely will be a different shape and size. It may even be made out of abs plastic which obviously would make a huge difference.

You'd be suprised how much tone is actually produced by the wood of the cabinet itself. Just try a speaker out if it's box and you'll see what I mean. Also things like speaker interaction and whether the cab is open or closed can matter as well.

The last thing is that a speaker impulse is only giving you a representation of what the speaker sounds like through a mic. Obviously when you listen to a real cab directly you're not listening through a mic, which is why 99.9% of the time when you mic one up it doesn't sound the same.
'66 Fender Bassman, '82 Marshall JCM800 4210, '86 Laney AOR 100, '90 Marshall JCM900 MKIII 2500, '97 Marshall JCM600, Silverface Mesa Dual Rectifier, Peavey 6505, Marshall JCM2000 DSL-100, VOX AC30CCH, Marshall JMP-1 + EL34 50/50
#22
Billy, what's wrong with the IR's in the Amplifire? I run mine straight into the PA now and it sounds like a real cab. I don't see what your problem is. The monitors are FRFR so what's the problem? Running a good IR is adding all the things that a real cab does so all you need is a flat response monitor, you know, like a PA.
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#23
Cathbard Well like I explained in my last comment the IR only replicates the cab sound through a mic (or multiple mics if using multiple IRs).

So if what you're saying is that it sounds like a real cab recorded through a mic then sure I agree, but that's not the same as a real cab in the room with you. Compared to a live cab, a recorded cab sound isn't even close to being as good.

I'm not saying running a modeller through a wedge isn't decent enough for some people, I would just argue that most guitarists would be happier with a real cab.
'66 Fender Bassman, '82 Marshall JCM800 4210, '86 Laney AOR 100, '90 Marshall JCM900 MKIII 2500, '97 Marshall JCM600, Silverface Mesa Dual Rectifier, Peavey 6505, Marshall JCM2000 DSL-100, VOX AC30CCH, Marshall JMP-1 + EL34 50/50
#24
BillyEatWorld let's review what the TS is asking for.

Quote by zack7521
Budget: $500-$1000 to split between either a combo, head + 1x12 cab, or some sort of preamp or modeller or anything that lets me record or play without actually making noise.


while i'd love to discuss the finer points of cab cork sniffery with you until dawn,

Quote by BillyEatWorld
[The last thing is that a speaker impulse is only giving you a representation of what the speaker sounds like through a mic. Obviously when you listen to a real cab directly you're not listening through a mic, which is why 99.9% of the time when you mic one up it doesn't sound the same.


Quote by BillyEatWorld
I'm not saying running a modeller through a wedge isn't decent enough for some people, I would just argue that most guitarists would be happier with a real cab.

well this TS isn't using a cab most of the time by his own admission. he's mostly interested in recording or playing silently etc. that's an area the Amplifire is going to walk all over the IRT Studio or anything else under $1000 and still allow him to occasionally make some noise with buds via a powered speaker.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Mar 23, 2017,
#25
It's not "cork sniffery" haha. We're not talking about a subtle difference here; playing through a powered speaker compared to a real cab is like night and day. If you're someone who can handle playing through a powered speaker that's fine; I'm just making the point that if given the option, most guitarists would choose even a small 1x12 over a powered speaker.

And also, I think the thread has moved on a little from the OP, but getting back to it; for strictly silent playing, why do you need a cab or even a modeller at all? A cheap interface and AmpliTube or BIAS  is easily the easiest, and cheapest way of getting a decent sound to record and practice silently with.

A hardware modeller would give you the option to play live gigs away from home etc, but then we're back to the question of powered speaker vs cab and power amp.

PS: Just to make it clear; like I said before I'm not opposed to cab IRs, or modelling in general. Id even happily gig / rehearse with a Kemper etc; but personally I just wouldn't do it without a real cab.
'66 Fender Bassman, '82 Marshall JCM800 4210, '86 Laney AOR 100, '90 Marshall JCM900 MKIII 2500, '97 Marshall JCM600, Silverface Mesa Dual Rectifier, Peavey 6505, Marshall JCM2000 DSL-100, VOX AC30CCH, Marshall JMP-1 + EL34 50/50
#26
I've been gigging with my Amplifire straight into the PA for a while now and it has been working fine. I quite like it, I was running an RM20 sitting like a wedge for feedback reasons (I use a lot of feedback) and the Amplifire through the wedge works just as well. At sound check I get the sound guy to pump me up in my wedge until I get feedback on boost and I'm set to go. 
Now this is coming from a guy who for the longest time ran a 6x12 mainly for feedback. I have found that I can do exactly the same thing with the foldback wedge because it's closer to me so I get the same results at lower volume. Really, I think your objections are psychoacoustic mainly. The sound is the same, man.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#27
three old guys arguing about what a kid out of HS needs to jam.

i fucking love you guys.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#28
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!