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#1
Is it best to try and invest equal amounts of money into both amp and guitar? Are you compromising your sound by spending, say, $1000 on a guitar and then getting an amp that only costs $600. Does it also work the other way around, bad idea to get a $1500 amp and then a $500 guitar?
#2
Why would you want to compromise?
Originally Posted by evening_crow
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#3
as long as the tools are up to the job either way can work. the amp produces the sound so by default should be the winner. your guitar needs to be up to snuff as well but for $500 you should be good to go. you could spend a more equel amount as well and probably be fine. what sounds do you want and what guitars and amps ar you looking at? 
#4
I would say the amp/pedals has a larger effect on the overall sound you're hearing. Pickups and guitars are important but IMO generally make less of a difference between switching between something like a Fender Vibrolux and an ENGL Fireball.
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#5
That's really hard to answer, unfortunately.

Mainly because of 3 things:

1) It varies depending on your price range. You might say the amp is more important, but if you're at the beginner/cheap end of the market it's arguably more important to spend more on the guitar.

2) It depends on exactly what types of tone you're comparing, and exactly what types of gear (two different, but similar, amps will sound closer than two very different guitars, and vice-versa).

3) Even though I would probably say that the amp is more important and makes the biggest difference, there are certain aspects of guitars which are hard to fake with the "wrong" guitar- it's hard to get a strat's in-between sounds out of a les paul, for example, regardless of how much you're willing to spend on the amp.

So it depends, unfortunately. I also don't think that putting arbitrary price percentages for what you should spend on each piece of gear is helpful, either, because some cheaper gear is really good, and some expensive gear is pretty middling, plus you often have to pay more money for more features (which you might not need), etc. etc.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#6
$200 gets you a decent amp, but a lousy guitar. So it shouldn't be a surprise that most people spend more on guitars than on amps and that most people have more guitars than amps, often lots more.
#7
"Amps" are changing. 

A lot of guitar players want something they can practice with in silence or at low volume at home (headphones), medium-loud in rehearsals, and seriously loud on a gig. Some guitars want to be able to switch off to a different sound completely when they want to. As a result,  modelers (Axe-FX, Helix, Amplifire, etc.) have rapidly overhauled expensive amps as a first choice, and modeling amps and computer programs have been gaining at the low end, with the difference in volume being a neutral power amp/speaker combination at every level. 

I can't conceive of a scenario these days where I'd visit a store and buy a Marshall stack (I already own one as a glut of 15 separate amps already), even if I didn't have one. 

I personally believe that owning a good guitar that's well set up is the key to great playing. Different guitars sound different, of course, but if you're a beginner that's far from as important as you might think. 
#8
As you can see, opinions vary.

I suspect that my view is biased because I was a long-time acoustic player before I got interested in electrics, so I had strong opinions about tone. Given that, it took me literally decades to come to terms with electrics, because I had been paying too much attention to the guitar and not enough to the amp. It was only when I got a electric amp for gigging with acoustic that I finally made the breakthrough. So my take on this is that finding an amp that works for you is the key, and that might mean spending significant sums of money, depending on what you hear when you try them. Another factor is that I have a positive dislike for fancy, blingy guitars, I see lectric guitars as lumps of wood with pickups, to be mucked about with. So if I had to spend $2000 on my gear it would likely be around $1300 on the amp and $700 on the rest of the gear. While I'm old fashioned and tube-oriented, my views are changing, and I might well be persuaded to spend the amp money on a good modeller set up, as suggested by dspellman. 
#9
I envision my tone like an ice cream sundae*: your amp is the ice cream (vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, etc.), the pedals are the sauce (chocolate, caramel, butterscotch, etc.) & toppings (nuts, sprinkles, etc.) and the guitar is the cherry on top.

That cherry matters, but it is one of the lesser aspects of the equation.


* why yes, I AM fat, how did you know?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#10
Quote by Dave_Mc
That's really hard to answer, unfortunately.

Mainly because of 3 things:

1) It varies depending on your price range. You might say the amp is more important, but if you're at the beginner/cheap end of the market it's arguably more important to spend more on the guitar.

2) It depends on exactly what types of tone you're comparing, and exactly what types of gear (two different, but similar, amps will sound closer than two very different guitars, and vice-versa).

3) Even though I would probably say that the amp is more important and makes the biggest difference, there are certain aspects of guitars which are hard to fake with the "wrong" guitar- it's hard to get a strat's in-between sounds out of a les paul, for example, regardless of how much you're willing to spend on the amp.

So it depends, unfortunately. I also don't think that putting arbitrary price percentages for what you should spend on each piece of gear is helpful, either, because some cheaper gear is really good, and some expensive gear is pretty middling, plus you often have to pay more money for more features (which you might not need), etc. etc.


good point on the price range thing as that does make a difference. the lower you go the harder it gets to get a good balance between amp that does a good job and a guitar that plays and sounds good. a Custom Shop guitar won't sound any better than a $200 guitar through a low end amp. on the other hand the $200 guitar will likely sound at least half way decent through a high end amp however if it has tuning and playing issues then it doesn't matter if it sounds good if you hate playing it. 
#11
Quote by dannyalcatraz
I envision my tone like an ice cream sundae*: your amp is the ice cream (vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, etc.), the pedals are the sauce (chocolate, caramel, butterscotch, etc.) & toppings (nuts, sprinkles, etc.) and the guitar is the cherry on top.

That cherry matters, but it is one of the lesser aspects of the equation.


* why yes, I AM fat, how did you know?

it was determined by the problem solving class i had to take for ISO 9000 that Vanilla is the best Ice Cream so you shouldn't have even bothered listing others  . (the reasoning was that it tastes great with any toppings you could put on it) . i wouldn't call a guitar a cherry though as your ice cream sundae would be just fine without it. just sayin
#12
No analogy is perfect- after all, ice cream is fine by itself, but just try entertaining a crowd with just an amp!

I thought about calling it the spoon- the tool in your hand by which you and/or others enjoy the sundae- but spoons rarely add flavor. (Clean ones, anyway.)
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#13
Quote by dannyalcatraz
No analogy is perfect- after all, ice cream is fine by itself, but just try entertaining a crowd with just an amp!

I thought about calling it the spoon- the tool in your hand by which you and/or others enjoy the sundae- but spoons rarely add flavor.  (Clean ones, anyway.)

yes but an ice cream sundae needs more than ice cream to be called such. thinking the guitar would be like the sauce more so than the cherry (that's your klon   

i hear you though 
#14
For me my analogy is the amp is your computer and the guitar represents your peripherals. The computer is responsible for doing your heavy calculations and the bulk of your work. The peripherals let you fine tune and choose things so that you are able to physically realize the ideas you have. picking the right mouse/keyboard/controller for the kind of work you intend to do is important to make sure you work well and efficiently but having a computer that is powerful enough to do things you want to do always takes precedence first since it is responsible for running your programs.


I think that makes sense but I'm also thicker than titanium plating
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#15
Quote by monwobobbo
yes but an ice cream sundae needs more than ice cream to be called such. thinking the guitar would be like the sauce more so than the cherry (that's your klon   

i hear you though 


But then what are the pedals if not te sauce, as the next most important defining element of your tone sundae?


...I need to go cook dinner.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#16
Quote by dannyalcatraz
But then what are the pedals if not te sauce, as the next most important defining element of your tone sundae?


...I need to go cook dinner.


Sprinkles


Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#17
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Sprinkles




OK, the Analogy Committee has spoken:

Amp = Ice Cream
Pedals = Sauce
Guitar = all other toppings

HAPPY?

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#18
Quote by dannyalcatraz
OK, the Analogy Committee has spoken:

Amp = Ice Cream
Pedals = Sauce
Guitar = all other toppings


So let it be written


So let it be done


Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#19
Quote by dannyalcatraz
OK, the Analogy Committee has spoken:

Amp = Ice Cream
Pedals = Sauce
Guitar = all other toppings

What happened to the Klon? It has to be it's own thing because... well, KLON!!!
Originally Posted by evening_crow
Quoting yourself is cool.


WARNING: I kill threads.
#20
Quote by evening_crow
What happened to the Klon? It has to be it's own thing because... well, KLON!!!


centaur or KTR?


Different level of cork depending
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#21
Quote by evening_crow
What happened to the Klon? It has to be it's own thing because... well, KLON!!!


That might be the flavored whiskey or liquor* you pour on YOURS because you ain't sharing it with no damn kids- too pricey, they wouldn't appreciate it, and there's not enough to go around, anyway.


* I can personally recommend things like Kalhua, American Honey, Amaretto, or Cherry Pie Hole...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#22
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
centaur or KTR?


Different level of cork depending

KTR's are for losers who sold their originals before they realized it's supposed to be used as a boost and now try to convince themselves that their new Klon is just as good. Well guess what? It's not!
Originally Posted by evening_crow
Quoting yourself is cool.


WARNING: I kill threads.
#23
Quote by evening_crow
KTR's are for losers who sold their originals before they realized it's supposed to be used as a boost and now try to convince themselves that their new Klon is just as good. Well guess what? It's not!


Purple text is appropriate


You're my new best friend
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#24
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Purple text is appropriate


You're my new best friend

*

That's our sundaes with other-than-Klon-liquor
Originally Posted by evening_crow
Quoting yourself is cool.


WARNING: I kill threads.
#25
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
For me my analogy is the amp is your computer and the guitar represents your peripherals. The computer is responsible for doing your heavy calculations and the bulk of your work. The peripherals let you fine tune and choose things so that you are able to physically realize the ideas you have. picking the right mouse/keyboard/controller for the kind of work you intend to do is important to make sure you work well and efficiently but having a computer that is powerful enough to do things you want to do always takes precedence first since it is responsible for running your programs.
Good analogy but what's the drink you spill across your keyboard?

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I think that makes sense but I'm also thicker than titanium plating
You can't plate titanium
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Youre officially uber shit now.

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3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

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I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#26
Quote by K33nbl4d3
Good analogy but what's the drink you spill across your keyboard?

You can't plate titanium


It's not a drink.


At least not to my current GF
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#27
Make sure you like playing your instrument and the sound of it, "tone" also comes from the musician, so spend the most on the axe, or plan to, you may get a deal.

Once your instrument is set, then the amp makes a massive difference, you have to pick for your playing style, after that foot pedals.

Quit setting up the argument that you will only ever have $2000, get a good instrument, then a good amp, then buy quality pedals (so no Danelectro, Berhinger, Outlaw Effects)
Be patient, build up your gear, don't compromise.
Last edited by 33db at Mar 21, 2017,
#28
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
For me my analogy is the amp is your computer and the guitar represents your peripherals. The computer is responsible for doing your heavy calculations and the bulk of your work. The peripherals let you fine tune and choose things so that you are able to physically realize the ideas you have. picking the right mouse/keyboard/controller for the kind of work you intend to do is important to make sure you work well and efficiently but having a computer that is powerful enough to do things you want to do always takes precedence first since it is responsible for running your programs.


That's a pretty good analogy. I'd have come up with that if I weren't a fatass!

That analogy means the pedals are your programs, right?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#29
My Gibson Les Paul sounds ok through a $260 solid state combo amp.
My $99 Dean Vendetta sounded not so good through a Mesa Heartbreaker.
The Gibson sounded absolutely incredible through the Heartbreaker (I say sounded because I was forced to sell the heartbreaker ).

Either one will hold back the other, but if there's a fixed budget involved, I would invest most of it into the guitar.
"Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect." -some dude
Last edited by Prime2515102 at Mar 22, 2017,
#30
Quote by dannyalcatraz
That's a pretty good analogy. I'd have come up with that if I weren't a fatass!

That analogy means the pedals are your programs, right?


Yeah you could say that for sure
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#31
This is why I alwys advocate for buying used if there is a decent used market in your location, unless you are jusr dead set on having new gear there is a great advantage in purchasing gently used gear due to the simple fact that you can get a better model of both guitar and amp used than what you will pay for cheaper versions brand new.

As others have said having a great playing guitar is very important but the main driver for your tone will be the amp and effects, you won't want to have a killer amp/effects rig and a turd for a guitar but having a killer guitar and a crappy amp is not going to work either. Find a good balance but lean more toward a decent amp for your tone and find a good playable guitar buying used will help to achieve this.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
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#32
I don't think you need to spend a lot of $$$ to get great tone but it is important to get gear of at lest minimum quality so it doesn't sound like ass.  

With a little time spent on setup EVH or Guthrie Govan could take a bone stock Fender Squier Tele and make it sound incredible.  They could do the same with some pretty basic amps or DMFX found for $200 used.  Unfortunately there are a lot of guitars and amps out there that just don't make the cut and even these exceptional players will struggle getting great tone from them.  Changing speakers or PUs on an instrument that lies well below the "tone floor" is often a useless exercise.  If a guitar or amp has good bones, it will generate good tone.  Knowing the difference is the tricky bit and most novice players don't have the experience to understand this yet.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Mar 22, 2017,
#33
Cajundaddy Well said it took me many years to experience to knw the difference.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#34
Quote by Cajundaddy
I don't think you need to spend a lot of $$$ to get great tone but it is important to get gear of at lest minimum quality so it doesn't sound like ass.  

With a little time spent on setup EVH or Guthrie Govan could take a bone stock Fender Squier Tele and make it sound incredible.  They could do the same with some pretty basic amps or DMFX found for $200 used.  Unfortunately there are a lot of guitars and amps out there that just don't make the cut and even these exceptional players will struggle getting great tone from them.  Changing speakers or PUs on an instrument that lies well below the "tone floor" is often a useless exercise.  If a guitar or amp has good bones, it will generate good tone.  Knowing the difference is the tricky bit and most novice players don't have the experience to understand this yet.

OK so experienced players know how to get a good tone, and inexperienced players don't understand how to.
That's obvious.
The question is; how do you help the inexperienced players get a decent tone for their dollars?

Tone, sound and music is highly (though not entirely) subjective, while we all know what we like, there can be a general consensus on what gear either sounds good, or has the potential to sound good.

I say start with the instrument, that's the human interface, that's what effects your playing and joy of playing the most.
A shitty always out of tune guitar makes playing misery, a good guitar, even through a crappy amp is tolerable.
#35
The amp has more effect on sound because its the thing that produces the bulk of it. The electrics in an electric guitar are there to convert the energy that gets produced with your strings and pickups and converts them to a signal. After that, your amp is the thing that processes that signal to make it into something that actually sounds good. When you have a shitty amp, shitty speakers and the like, you aren't getting a good tone out of it no matter how expensive your guitar is. There is only so much a magnet and copper wire can do.


Personally, I would get the cheapest guitar that has the features you want and feels nice and then keep most of your budget for a nice amp and pedals.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#36
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R

Personally, I would get the cheapest guitar that has the features you want and feels nice and then keep most of your budget for a nice amp and pedals.

Would you feel the same way about an acoustic guitar?

People in this thread keep working from the idea he has X amount of dollars and will never have more, save up and down the road get the good amp, but first get an instrument you like that plays well.
Doesn't mean it has to cost an arm and a leg, personally I would drop the money on a known good guitar and if I had to, get by with a tiny headphone amp until I saved enough to step up.
Last edited by 33db at Mar 22, 2017,
#37
Quote by 33db
Would you feel the same way about an acoustic guitar?

People in this thread keep working from the idea he has X amount of dollars and will never have more, save up and down the road get the good amp, but first get an instrument you like that plays well.
Doesn't mean it has to cost an arm and a leg, personally I would drop the money on a known good guitar and if I had to, get by with a tiny headphone amp until I saved enough to step up.


Kind of a silly question isn't it? Most people don't use pedals and amps when they play acoustics anyway so your point would be moot. But to answer it, yes I would. My favorite acoustic guitar is under a grand. In fact a lot of Taylors are and lots of people love them.


I don't think a lot of people would want a Gibson and then plug into a cruddy headphone amp. Judging by a lot of people's rigs here as well I think a lot of people would probably prefer getting an Epiphone, some nice pedals and a nice amp vs the opposite.


Whatever works for you works for you, but I personally think amps are more important. Not saying guitars aren't, cause they are but yeah
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#38
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Kind of a silly question isn't it?

No, it's to illustrate the importance of the instrument, because right away you think of the quality of the guitar with an acoustic, you aren't thinking about the amp, and a "decent epi" is a good guitar.
If I had a choice between a crap guitar with a nice amp or a good guitar and a tiny headphone amp and waiting another 6 months to save up, then I would choose the latter.

But that's me, I don't want to play on an instrument I hate for 6 months.

In either case for $2000 US you can get both a good guitar and a good amp plus a pedal or 2.
Last edited by 33db at Mar 22, 2017,
#39
I dunno about the analogy thing. I know what danny means about no analogy being perfect, and he's right (any analogy which is 100% the same as what you're talking about likely isn't an analogy any more, it's probably just the thing you're talking about ), but I'm not sure I'd agree with the ice cream one. I mean, I have amps which do what I want. I still pick the guitar which is most suitable for the tones I want. Spending more on a "better" amp would not get me closer to where I want to go if I had to use that amp with a less suitable guitar.

The big problem is that the goalposts keep moving. Once you have a good amp, suddenly the guitar (or the pickups) becomes super-important. Etc. etc.

Quote by monwobobbo
good point on the price range thing as that does make a difference. the lower you go the harder it gets to get a good balance between amp that does a good job and a guitar that plays and sounds good. a Custom Shop guitar won't sound any better than a $200 guitar through a low end amp. on the other hand the $200 guitar will likely sound at least half way decent through a high end amp however if it has tuning and playing issues then it doesn't matter if it sounds good if you hate playing it. 


Yeah. I mean, a high-end guitar will probably sound a bit better even through a beginner amp than a cheap guitar (assuming both are stock i.e. no pickup upgrades etc. ), but probably not enough to justify the difference. Whereas with the amp thing it'll make a big difference unless the guitar is terrible.

Another thing about the price thing that I forgot to mention is that different stuff costs different amounts of money in different parts of the world, so that's another reason why assigning arbitrary percentages is silly.

I mean Mesas aren't twice as good in Europe as they are in the USA, for example. If you have a guitar which costs $4000 in the USA does that mean that a Mesa at $2000 isn't good enough to play through? How about in Europe where that exact same Mesa (except specced with a 230V power transformer) does cost $4000?

Quote by 33db

People in this thread keep working from the idea he has X amount of dollars and will never have more, save up and down the road get the good amp, but first get an instrument you like that plays well.
Doesn't mean it has to cost an arm and a leg, personally I would drop the money on a known good guitar and if I had to, get by with a tiny headphone amp until I saved enough to step up.


Yeah. To be fair, any time we say, "Can you save up more?" we get shouted at by people who aren't as into guitar as we are

But yeah that's a fair point. I guess you could make a whole new thread about whether it's better to get one good thing now (which doesn't need to be upgraded) versus getting two decent things which will sound good now but which may both eventually need to be upgraded. I guess it depends on how long it takes you to save (and also hits on a lot of stuff in this thread about dearer stuff not necessarily being better, etc. ).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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