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#1
What do you guys think ? Is it pointless to have really nice guitars if you don't have a decent amp ?

Reason I ask is because I'm considering selling my tube amp . and I'd likely start using only amp sims .
#2
Lots of people only use amp sims. To me, my guitar is something I'll always have and amps will come and go.
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#3
Not pointless.

Good guitars will feel better, hold tune better, and, IME, still sounds better through the sims.
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#4
The playability of the nice quitar will still be a benefit even if the tonal differences not as much. 

With that said I bought a iRig HD 2 last week to screw around with and I thought it sounded pretty good........till I plugged my guitar back into my tube amp. Don't do it.  You will regret it. 
#5
Not pointelss unless you are playing through a crappy amp then still not pointless to own nice guitars just time to upgrade the amp.

I'm old school and prefer my tube amp over sims.
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#6
Not at all. You can always get a nice amp in the future, or not. In the end, what you play is the guitar. And who wants to play a crappy guitar through a nice amp.
#7


lol?
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#8
Its all about priorities. I personally have always considered amps the priority, just because I can get a pretty decent for cheap, I'm more picky with amps.
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#9
I find that most guitars sound similar through amp sims , and solid state amps . and their differences are more noticeable through a tube amp . That's why I ask is an expensive guitar pointless with out a real decent tube amp ?

Expensive guitars could play and sound better , but that isn't always true . With a good setup a cheaper guitar can play and sound just as good
#11
It took me about 30 years to really get into electric guitars because of my failure to appreciate the importance of the amp, so I would not have a good guitar without a good (however you want to define that) amp. The "instrument" is the bit you hold and the amplification chain, and the guitar itself is nothing more than a lump of wood that holds the pickups.
#12
I have some expensive guitars, most of my playing at home is done through Guitar Rig software, and I have a ridiculously good sounding patch based on a hotrodded Marshall that I tend to use 95% of the time, it sounds different and reacts different with different guitars and I'm extremely happy with it for headphone playing. Of course having a real amp is nice, I use mine when playing with other musicians and when recording, occasionally at home. But truth is that modelling has come a long long way, and if you spend some time with them you can get some incredible sounds.

In my opinion the guitar still makes a big difference for sound with digital modellers (though not quite so much as with a real valve amp), but it's not just that it's the way it plays and the way it holds tune etc.. So yeah, have nice guitars even if you don't have a real amp, you will enjoy it more. Plenty of professional musicians don't use amps live now and still get amazing sounds, things have moved on a lot.
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#13
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#14
Never gave it any of thought,  As its not like I'm going to sell any of my favorite amps, and my guitars are just nice anyway,   I guess you just get to a point in your life where its not about downsizing, but about holding on to what you like,  I've actually downsized quite a bit, Some I gave away,  Simply because I didn't use it or figured I never would and some other starving musician pal could make better use of it.  But I guess if you need to sell your Tube amp to pay the rent or for gas to get to work then its a different story,  Been there done that, although a long time ago,  
#15
I would imagine it would greatly depend on your personal playing style, the genre of music you play, what venues you play in, etc. If you're playing mostly "clean" pop music, going through a pedal into the house PA system is probably fine. Likewise, using a decent solid state amp. If you're playing in a cover band in bars, and need to imitate lots of tones and sounds, a good modeling amp or pedals is probably adequate. Yes, it's not going to sound exactly like the recordings you're covering, and yes, the tone won't be perfect. But it'll be close enough for the drunks in your audience. If you're a major rock star with a distinctive signature sound that your fans expect from you, let your gear techs worry about it. 
#17
The only amp I would honestly consider buying these days is something akin to a Kemper, or whatever replaces it in the coming years. I just use Guitar Rig and Bias. The software and modelling stuff is getting so good now I'd rather spend vastly reduced sums of money on that considering the vast vast majority of people couldn't tell the difference anyway. Having the actual amps would always be nice but it no longer makes economical sense to me.
#18
I think having a guitar that you enjoy playing is more important than having an amp that gets the most out of it tonally - provided the amp isn't so horrendous that you just can't enjoy the sound that comes out of it. As much as people like to argue that an amp is by far the most important thing because "tone", ultimately I think the metaphor about a chain only being as strong as its weakest link applies here.
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#21
I think it's easier to work around a bad sounding amp, or use plugins, than to have a guitar that feels bad to play.

I would buy the best guitar I can, and keep using plugins until I actually need an amp
#22
I wouldn't say entirely pointless. How much sense it makes depends on your circumstance. Having a nice guitar when I was younger certainly motivated me to play more, even though my amp was a piece of crap.

Having a top-tier guitar and pairing it with an Spider III for instance is kinda like owning a Ferarri with no engine. It looks cool, and if all you want to do is sit in it on your driveway and look cool then it might make sense, but is it going to do anything? No.
Last edited by Random3 at Mar 29, 2017,
#23
Quote by Tony Done
the guitar itself is nothing more than a lump of wood that holds the pickups.

It's definitely far more than that.  
Quote by Tony Done
It is the pickups that sound good, not the guitar. HTH.  

SIGH
#24
Yeah, I think you rather understate the role of the guitar as an interface between the player and the amp (if we choose to see it thus), Tony Done. I'm not particularly a believer in tonewoods as a serious consideration for a solidbody guitar (or even a semi- or fully-hollow electric, really) but there are several things about the instrument that will have tangible effects on tone and sustain. If I were to switch the pickups round between my two Teles they wouldn't suddenly sound like each other. I imagine you have your preferences as far as necks are concerned, too - I certainly do.
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#25
No it is not pointless, the guitar is what you're playing on, you want it to be fun and comfy to play and to stay in tune.
It's the "human interface" so you want it to be as good as you can get it.
#26
Quote by jedigovnaUG
I find that most guitars sound similar through amp sims , and solid state amps .  and their differences are more noticeable through a tube amp . That's why I ask is an expensive guitar pointless with out a real decent tube amp ?

Expensive guitars could play and sound better , but that isn't always true . With a good setup a cheaper guitar can play and sound just as good


I think your issue may be connected to whatever speakers or headphones you're listening through. And whether you're overwhelming your sims with gain/distortion. If you're listening through a four-buck set of ear buds, then yes, everything's going to sound the same. Through a set of AKG 240's, etc., you'll definitely hear the difference. I run my preamps through powered studio monitors with an 8" LF driver and a 1" tweeter.  

As to whether an expensive or an inexpensive guitar sounds better: that's a question of personal taste. 
#27
Quote by reverb66
If you aren't jamming or gigging, then an amp isn't really necessary.

And if you are jamming or gigging, an amp really isn't necessary a lot of the time, either. It's become common to walk into a gig in these parts with a guitar and a modeler and just have the sound guys plug you directly into the board. 
#28
its a personal thing. and also a different thing for different goals and skill level.

if your guitar was slowing you down and restricting your playability, get a new guitar.

if you want to go digital, go digital, personal thing. i have 21 tube amps sitting around so i dont need sims, and am in a spot where i can make noise.
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#29
A bad guitar through anything is still a bad guitar. The guitar has to feel right to you and sound like what you want. If you have a decent guitar put it through whatever works for you. As reverb66 says if you are not gigging or playing live with others you don't need an amp at all. Amps are a choice you make based on your what your need is. If you are not playing in big rooms with a band do you really need a 100 watt stack for your basement or bedroom? It may be fun but really unnecessary. For recording some amp sims are great. 
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Last edited by Rickholly74 at Mar 29, 2017,
#30
Tom G. FIsher (Celtic Frost) started out on a crappy Ibanez Iceman and after he upgraded the band lost their sound

Good guitar through modeler still sounds better than a cheaper guitar. It is all about the tonal balance and the nuances that a well constructed instrument brings thru its pickups. Now, this is much more apparent with acoustic guitars, but it there with el. guitars as well. I've also noticed it much more apparent with higher end pickups, there is a lot of more definition on Joe Barden than on a Seymour Duncan pickup, for example.
#31
 
Quote by risingforce1
The playability of the nice quitar will still be a benefit even if the tonal differences not as much. 

With that said I bought a iRig HD 2 last week to screw around with and I thought it sounded pretty good........till I plugged my guitar back into my tube amp. Don't do it.  You will regret it. 

have to agree. sold my tube marshall and used amp sims for years, i wouldn't recommend it.
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#32
It's important to have a guitar you like, that feels good and inspires you to play. The best amp in the world will just collect dust if you don't have that. Whether that means you need a "really nice" guitar or not depends on what you like.
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#33
Quote by the_white_bunny
 

have to agree. sold my tube marshall and used amp sims for years, i wouldn't recommend it.

Yep I can third this, was using guitar rig, going back into an amp is magic, also not as big fan of multieffects prefer individual pedals.
#34
K33nbl4d3   JustRooster 

You aren't wrong, and I deliberately overstate my case to provoke discussion. However, with modern CNC machining, IMO you don't need to pay much at all to get very good functional characteristics. For example, I recently did favourable review in this forum of an Epi LP Jr I set up for a friend, and which cost Oz$179 new equivalent US price would have been about US$100. Bottom line - I would have been happy to use it, though the pickup was a little too hot for my tastes. My go-to electric cost Oz$60 from the hock shop. I am of the strong opinion that folks buy expensive stuff for mojo (I certainly do) and then argue it to others and maybe themselves on performance. There is also a tendency to equate/confuse "more" with "better".
#35
Quote by Tony Done
K33nbl4d3   JustRooster 

You aren't wrong, and I deliberately overstate my case to provoke discussion. However, with modern CNC machining, IMO you don't need to pay much at all to get very good functional characteristics. For example, I recently did favourable review in this forum of an Epi LP Jr I set up for a friend, and which cost Oz$179 new equivalent US price would have been about US$100. Bottom line - I would have been happy to use it, though the pickup was a little too hot for my tastes. My go-to electric cost Oz$60 from the hock shop. I am of the strong opinion that folks buy expensive stuff for mojo (I certainly do) and then argue it to others and maybe themselves on performance. There is also a tendency to equate/confuse "more" with "better".

I agree some what with this, I think you can get a perfectly good LP copy (Epi, Agile, etc) for under 600 to 700$'s.
I always have to ask why people drop 3 to 6 grand on an LP and the first thing they do is swap out the tuning keys and PUPs a lot of the time.
Is a 3 grand LP really all that much more functional than a 600$ Epi? What do you get for that extra 2400?

Then there's the 11K$ Mike McCready 1959 special LP, OK who is buying that? Sure if was a millionaire I might drop that sort of cash but it would be a custom built guitar not some factory made reissue of a dream that's over.
#36
Quote by 33db
I agree some what with this, I think you can get a perfectly good LP copy (Epi, Agile, etc) for under 600 to 700$'s.
I always have to ask why people drop 3 to 6 grand on an LP and the first thing they do is swap out the tuning keys and PUPs a lot of the time.
Is a 3 grand LP really all that much more functional than a 600$ Epi? What do you get for that extra 2400?

Then there's the 11K$ Mike McCready 1959 special LP, OK who is buying that? Sure if was a millionaire I might drop that sort of cash but it would be a custom built guitar not some factory made reissue of a dream that's over.


The 3-4K historic reissue les Paul's are absolutely different then a 600 dollar one.
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#38
Quote by Tony Done
You aren't wrong, and I deliberately overstate my case to provoke discussion. However, with modern CNC machining, IMO you don't need to pay much at all to get very good functional characteristics. For example, I recently did favourable review in this forum of an Epi LP Jr I set up for a friend, and which cost Oz$179 new equivalent US price would have been about US$100. Bottom line - I would have been happy to use it, though the pickup was a little too hot for my tastes. My go-to electric cost Oz$60 from the hock shop. I am of the strong opinion that folks buy expensive stuff for mojo (I certainly do) and then argue it to others and maybe themselves on performance. There is also a tendency to equate/confuse "more" with "better".
Oh, for sure. I half wrote an answer to the question in the OP which included the usual disclaimer of "nice doesn't necessarily equal expensive" then abandoned it because I felt the question had pretty much been addressed. As far as buying expensive guitars (bearing in mind that what I regard as expensive is what other people may regard as dirt cheap - my current guitars are all about £700-900 RRP) I've said before and I may feel the need to say again that I do perceive a greater difference in performance than you seem to, but there's no question that I've bought the guitars I've bought because of mojo and because of specific features as much as because of perceived quality. If the mojo wasn't there I wouldn't be interested. And in general I'll take brands I like over other brands that may be just as good because I like those brands.

In general, yeah, cheap stuff nowadays, say £200-300 for me at least - where you start to escape the absolutely bottom-level stuff - is usually about 90% of the way there, as it were. I would say guitars at the price point I tend to go for are, say 95%, and I wouldn't pay that kind of money if they didn't have that extra 5%. I've played mega expensive guitars - a couple of Gibson hollows and a Skervesen are probably the most expensive I've played, I know these constitute impulse purchases for some of you - that bring that up to 99% or whatever, and I wouldn't pay multiples of thousands for something that didn't have that extra 4% or so on my instruments. Obviously that's just my perception and the percentages are entirely fictitious just to make my point, but that's my take on that whole deal. Of course, if "quality" or "performance" only refers to how easy it is to play a given thing and how "good" it sounds coming out of the amplifier, then yeah, it's hard to discern such a correlation when setups are taken into account, but I think that's unhelpful I know it's a nebulous term, but "feel" really comes into it there.
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Last edited by K33nbl4d3 at Mar 29, 2017,
#39
Quote by AcousticMirror
The 3-4K historic reissue les Paul's are absolutely different then a 600 dollar one.

No, 3 or 4k is for the crap they are selling today, it's 11 thousand dollars for the "historic reissue".

And yes, they are different, if for no other reason than they are 1000's more in cost.
My point is, as far as functionality how different are they?

Plus you should give full disclosure if you own one, have to temper that bias.
#40
Quote by 33db
No, 3 or 4k is for the crap they are selling today, it's 11 thousand dollars for the "historic reissue".

And yes, they are different, if for no other reason than they are 1000's more in cost.
My point is, as far as functionality how different are they?

Plus you should give full disclosure if you own one, have to temper that bias.
As far as bias is concerned it really doesn't sound to me like you have much experience with them if you're referring to 3k Gibsons as "crap". Not what they were? Sure. But it comes across rather like people playing Marshall MGs calling people who don't like Marshall MGs "tube elitists". The final sentence in particular going for a nice "let's ignore the opinions of people who own these guitars until they agree that they suck" isn't very helpful. For the record, as mentioned above, I don't own, nor have I ever owned (but have on several occasions played), a guitar over a grand.
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