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#1
Hi, I was just wondering. 

I have been looking at guitars, I have been looking for something that sounds a bit like a Fender-ish, mostly with the chimey sound. I am probably too picky with this, but I really like it, the only problem is I wanted a guitar that was slightly heavier then what they usually are capable of playing. I found some that can do this, but some of them in particular are almost too heavy for me. For some songs, I don't mind them at all, but I want to sort of at least have an all in one guitar for some reason. Or at least what I mean, I want a guitar that can go between being a little heavy, but then have those clean light chimey Fender sounds. Would it be possible to simply mess with the gain and string gauges to effect the bottom heavy sound of these guitars? 

The HH fenders are great, but particular the Jim Root fenders I really, but almost too heavy...
#2
I am also curious. I like the look of some metal guitars, but am not a metal fan.
#3
I have a Schecter A-7, which is considered a metal guitar but it can still do cleaner,softer styles of music, It mostly depends on how you dial in your amp and effects. If you want to have more versatility in your guitar, get a guitar with humbuckers and single coils. or a guitar that can coil split. They probably wont sound as chimey as a Fender, but it'll be close enough. 
#4
The heaviness of your tone has more to do with your amp and effects than your guitar. Mike Hampton has been playing funk in Parliament/Funkadelic on B.C. Rich guitars for decades.




Soooo...what kind of amp do you use? What pedals?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

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#5
Yeah, put some decent passive (or the EMG 57/66 are supposed to work like this) pickups in the guitar and use your Volume and Tone knobs.   Turning the Volume knob down will reduce the gain but not the volume so much.  

Something with a HSS setup would be even better so you can get the natural cleans of the middle and use a stacked type of S for the neck that can be split if you want both S and H sounds from the neck.  
Guitars:
Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
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Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#6
The 'heaviness' of a guitar's sound is a vast majority of the function of the amp. Not the guitar.

Work on getting an amp that will give you the tones you're looking for. Buying guitars in the interest of getting less of a heavier tone is largely a fool's errand.
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#7
Okay, I am not really a "gear head" or at least I haven't gotten to that point yet. I know everyone says it's the amp, but I don't really agree. I always hear the guitars just as well with the amp. I wouldn't say I don't like metal, and I do like a degree of heaviness. My pedals and amp aren't that good right now, but again I don't think it's just the amp : O


I guess that's another thing though, I just have not decided on an amp yet either. I almost think it's the opposite though, I think that often a certain level of quality and make, it's the guitars that bring the characteristic qualities, and not the amps themselves. 

I really like fuzz pedals, but they've become so popular I don't know if it's definitively the sound I would want; but something that's not too saturated, digital or clanging sounding. I always like a bit of a softness. 
Last edited by tear2slitwrists at Mar 31, 2017,
#8
fender chime is a result of the pickups (50s stye single coils) which don't do the "heavy" tones as well as other pickups.  i'd look into a HSS strat style guitar  which can give you the best of both worlds with only a little compromise. as TDB mentioned it's as much about the amp and setting you are usiing so keep that in mind
#9
tear2slitwrists When you get an amp that will give you the tones you want, you'll find yourself agreeing that the amp is a far bigger contributor to the problem you're having. Trust us. Pretty much everyone here has been there. If you're admitting that you don't have a good amp, then it's pretty obvious where your money needs to be going first.
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#10
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
The 'heaviness' of a guitar's sound is a vast majority of the function of the amp. Not the guitar.

Work on getting an amp that will give you the tones you're looking for. Buying guitars in the interest of getting less of a heavier tone is largely a fool's errand.


Well I know with bass and volume, but "heavinss" is not just that I don't think, personally. Maybe you've "been there" but you've reached different conclusions. 
Last edited by tear2slitwrists at Mar 31, 2017,
#11
Quote by tear2slitwrists
Well I know with bass and volume, but "heavinss" is not just that I don't think, personally. Maybe you've "been there" but you've reached different conclusions. 

Define what this 'heaviness' is exactly.

If it's in reference to the amount of gain, then the amp is far more important.
If it's in reference to EQ, again, the amp is far more important.
If it's in reference to the way your guitar reacts to your playing, again, the amp is playing a larger role in that than the guitar.

It isn't a matter of personal opinion. It is a matter of fact.
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#12
Quote by tear2slitwrists
Okay, I am not really a "gear head" or at least I haven't gotten to that point yet. I know everyone says it's the amp, but I don't really agree. I always hear the guitars just as well with the amp. I wouldn't say I don't like metal, and I do like a degree of heaviness.


The guitar and its pickups DO have a noticeable effect on tone. But compared to amp & pedals...it's not even close.

Tony Iommi created metal on Strats and SGs. "Captain" Kirk Douglas plays funk on Strats and SGs (and a whole bunch else). The difference lies in their amp & pedal choices.

Jimmy Page used a Tele for Led Zeppelin's first album. Teles are one of the major guitars for C&W. He coaxed those pioneering heavy tones out of his Tele by making different choices about his signal chain than C&W guitarists would.

Me? A couple dozen electric guitars, 50+ pedals and- up until recently- only one real amp, a Fender HRD combo. A real workhorse amp that can cover a lot of genre-appropriate tones. But even with pedals like an Emma Pisdiyowat or an Empress Heavy, it falls short of hitting the heaviest tones I enjoy. After a long search, I purchased an Orange TH30, and could hear the difference on that end immediately. It isn't even close.

Right tool for the job.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

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Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#13
Quote by dannyalcatraz
The guitar and its pickups DO have a noticeable effect on tone.  But compared to amp & pedals...it's not even close.

Tony Iommi created metal on Strats and SGs.  "Captain" Kirk Douglas plays funk on Strats and SGs (and a whole bunch else).  The difference lies in their amp & pedal choices.

Jimmy Page used a Tele for Led Zeppelin's first album.  Teles are one of the major guitars for C&W.  He coaxed those pioneering heavy tones out of his Tele by making different choices about his signal chain than C&W guitarists would.

Yes, but I still notice. Technically, you can play any genre or style of music on any guitar, but whose to say if it works. Paige still changed to a Les Paul, and even Jeff Buckley changed his guitars from solely relying on a Tele, to a Les Paul (and something else) 

Eh, I still think that at least the amp and guitar are quite even. Even Radiohead started out playing with mostly Tele's, but then they shifted gears as bit as well. I don't know how many different guitars Hendrix went through. 

Even Billie Joe Armstrong, I remember him talking about why he plays Les Paul Juniors, and he said it's because it has this punchy but still being somewhat heavy sounding, which is what he's always wanted. (plus, it just reminds you sort of the 50s and has this kind of classy old fashioned Americana tone to it) John Mayer has said similar things, about his preferences for Fender style guitars (if not Fender models themselves) and has even cited personally that he thinks the lacquer makes a HUGE difference.

Plus, I notice the difference between tube amps and digital ones. (or is it called "modelling"? I cannot recall right now) 
Last edited by tear2slitwrists at Mar 31, 2017,
#14
A heavier tone will come more from your amp than your guitar.

You can plug in a heavy metal guitar like my Schecter A-7 into low gain amp, and it wont sound heavy if the amp isn't designed to be.

Amp is more important for heavier tones, a metal guitar will just enhance your metal tone.
#15
Technically, you can play any genre or style of music on any guitar, but whose to say if it works.


I agree.

However, you have to ask why those guitarists changed guitars AND whether or not they changed anything else in their signal chain. And the why of such changes matters too.

When JP started using LPs, he also stopped using the small Supro he had used on that 1st album as well.

When JB added other guitars to his arsenal, he may have been seeking less hum and twang.

And again, when you see someone coaxing unexpected tones to it of an axe, it's the amp and pedals doing the heavy lifting. Go look at pictures of reggae artists like Peter Tosh and Bob Marley. They played guitars with humbuckers, P90s and all kinds of singlecoils. They kept plugging them into the same amps and pedals, though..
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#16
I think it's all pretty even lol

I was listening to some old Smashing Pumpkins, I know Billie almost always plays with strats, but to get a heavy sound, he used a back up guitar if you will (bass guitar lol), and then in the studio he just creates layers and layers of guitar to his original playing. So is this effects over guitar or guitar over effects? (yes, you could say it's mostly the "pickups" I suppose, I don't think he plays with HSS very often though, does he? ) even if you think ti's just the pick ups, the guitar build itself and the wood used still makes a difference I am sure.




BIllie Joe still plays his old BJ gutiar too, and maybe he changes some of the effects, but just for a song or two he'll play it, and I swear I notice a difference...sure, maybe it's just the pickups, but then why didn't Billie just get a strat model with different pick ups? he does keep in the spirit of punk a lot. iIthink that there's an overarching sound that mostly stems from the guitars, and then there's the pick ups, and then there's the amps, and I think the amp often just works as almost like a filer, to filer the guitars. But it only works as like a layer of sound or something. I listened to  guy who made a video of himself playing the same guitar through different amps (because he worked in a guitar shop) and I think the amps weren't as dominant in the sound, or at least in a certain part of the sound. 
Last edited by tear2slitwrists at Mar 31, 2017,
#17
Quote by tear2slitwrists
I think it's all pretty even lol

I was listening to some old Smashing Pumpkins, I know Billie almost always plays with strats, but to get a heavy sound, he used a back up guitar if you will, and then in the studio he just creates layers and layers of guitar to his original playing. So is this effects over guitar or guitar over effects? (yes, you could say it's mostly the "pickups" I suppose)

It entirely depends on just how they were mixed and to what degree.

How an album is mixed can have a profound effect on the tone of the final product that you hear on an album, but if you want to get a great heavy tone, you're not going to get it from a Roland Jazz Chorus no matter how heavily your process the guitar tracks. Remember too that the amount of low end you hear from guitar tracks on an album is heavily augmented by the bassist and the drummer. Guitar amps and indeed guitars in general cannot physically reproduce the low end you sometimes hear in some records because it isn't actually the guitars that are reproducing them. Even if it might sound like they are.

Obviously album mixing isn't something you're going to be taking advantage of unless you happen to have a recording studio at home. Instead, focus on what you can control, rather than what you can't. The best you can do is get an amp that's fit for purpose. And it doesn't sound to me like the amp you currently own is up to snuff. The amp is factually doing the vast majority of the heavy lifting in a guitar's tone. You can say 'I think they're pretty even' all day, but honestly dude, that simply isn't true.
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#18
You asked a question and got the right answer, why are you arguing lol? If you just want a new guitar, then just buy a new guitar, but how heavy the tone is comes straight from the amp and there's no disputing that. Billie Joe Armstrong talking about how punchy his LPJ is or John Mayer saying lacquered necks and fretboards making a difference doesn't change the fact that their tones are essentially the same coming out of their amps as if they switched guitars with each other. Punchiness and lacquered wood affects the feel of the instrument, and moreso the response from the amplifier, than the actual hardware on the guitar itself

obviously a strat with a bareknuckles in the bridge will sound different than a a strat with a lipstick SC in the bridge but that kind of polar opposite change isn't what we're talking about here
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#19
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
you're not going to get it from a Roland Jazz Chorus no matter how heavily your process the guitar tracks.
This sounds to me like a challenge.
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#20
Quote by tear2slitwrists
Yes, but I still notice. Technically, you can play any genre or style of music on any guitar, but whose to say if it works. Paige still changed to a Les Paul, and even Jeff Buckley changed his guitars from solely relying on a Tele, to a Les Paul (and something else) 

Eh, I still think that at least the amp and guitar are quite even. Even Radiohead started out playing with mostly Tele's, but then they shifted gears as bit as well. I don't know how many different guitars Hendrix went through. 

Even Billie Joe Armstrong, I remember him talking about why he plays Les Paul Juniors, and he said it's because it has this punchy but still being somewhat heavy sounding, which is what he's always wanted. (plus, it just reminds you sort of the 50s and has this kind of classy old fashioned Americana tone to it) John Mayer has said similar things, about his preferences for Fender style guitars (if not Fender models themselves) and has even cited personally that he thinks the lacquer makes a HUGE difference.

Plus, I notice the difference between tube amps and digital ones. (or is it called "modelling"? I cannot recall right now) 


Jimmy Page switched to a Les Paul yes but on the song Kashmir he used a Danelectro Shorthorn which has single coil "LIPSTICK" pickups on it and it worked because he had good amplification. All of the artists that you mention are using good amps. And yes using different guitars is going to makeba difference depending on the pickups humbuckers/P90s/single coils are all going to sound different but the amp is still going to be the biggest factor in your tone its a fact.

I'm not sure why you want to disagree with everyone when all they are doing is trying to help. You did, after all, ask for our advice.

Any kind of music for the most part can be played on any guitar, some will obviously be better suited for certain styles than others but it is the amp that makes this possible.


What you need is s new amp
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Last edited by Evilnine at Mar 31, 2017,
#21
I didn't know the Dano was used on "Kashmir". Thanks for that bit o knowledge.

Fookin' yergly axe, but it and other Danelectros convinced me tour give Lipsticks a chance. They're stock in my Godin Belmont...and I want another one.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#22
Quote by K33nbl4d3
This sounds to me like a challenge.


OP
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

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Live my twisted dream
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Time for primal concrete sledge

#23
dannyalcatraz

Yup that guitar fuuugly for sure as is the Dano Longhorn.

I was surprised to learn about the Kashmir/Danelectro you can find vids on YouTube there is a good one with Page and Jack White where Page is telling about it I cant seem to get YouTube vids to work on UG from my tablet.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#24
I kinda disagree with what people are saying here. I have amps which are "heavy", and I still use my guitars with hotter pickups when I want heavier tones. Conversely, I have amps which are aimed at lighter tones, and I still use my guitars with lower output pickups when I want lighter tones.

Just because the amp is "more important" doesn't mean that the guitar is "unimportant", which seems to be what a lot of people in here are saying.
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Apr 1, 2017,
#26
Just because the amp is "more important" doesn't mean that the guitar is "unimportant", which seems to be what a lot of people in here are saying.


I am absolutely NOT saying that: the guitar does matter, but pedals and amps matter more when it comes to determining "heaviness".

We've discussed how genre-bending guitarists will use guitars they love that seem otherwise ill-suited for their niche, and still killing it. But how many times o you see similar examples elsewhere in someone's rig?

How many Fender HRDs get used for high-gain metal? How many ENGL Invaders pop up at the Grand Ole Opry? How blind blues men & folkies use OKKO Dominators? How common is the Timmy in punk pedalboards?

I know stuff like that happens- someone in my church's music ministry uses an Orange & a 4x12, but not at the service I usually attend.* But I think the odds of that kind of iconoclastic decision is far rarer than using a BC Rich guitar for funk.


* Most likely the teen rock service.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#27
The best way to make a guitar less heavy is to get a saw and cut wood from the body but I don't recommend it since you won't be able to undo the changes easily.
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#29
Quote by tear2slitwrists
Hi, I was just wondering. 

I have been looking at guitars, I have been looking for something that sounds a bit like a Fender-ish, mostly with the chimey sound. I am probably too picky with this, but I really like it, the only problem is I wanted a guitar that was slightly heavier then what they usually are capable of playing. I found some that can do this, but some of them in particular are almost too heavy for me. For some songs, I don't mind them at all, but I want to sort of at least have an all in one guitar for some reason. Or at least what I mean, I want a guitar that can go between being a little heavy, but then have those clean light chimey Fender sounds. Would it be possible to simply mess with the gain and string gauges to effect the bottom heavy sound of these guitars? 

The HH fenders are great, but particular the Jim Root fenders I really, but almost too heavy...


Get an HSS guitar - you don't need a neck humbucker , you can use the bridge humbucker for heavy tones and the neck single coil for your cleans
#30
What people are trying to say is that if you have an amp that's not capable of producing heavy tones, you can't fix it by buying a different guitar. You first need an amp that can achieve the tones that you are after. Guitar is more about fine tweaking. Well, in some cases it is more important - if you are after single coil tones, you need a guitar with single coils, and if you are after humbucker tones, you need a guitar with humbuckers. But heavy tones come from your amp. You can't make an amp that doesn't sound heavy, sound heavy by just plugging a different guitar into it.

So guitar definitely matters, but if your tone is not "heavy enough", your amp is more important than your guitar.

What guitar do you have at the moment?

If you want a guitar that works well for heavier music but also has those classic Fender tones, get an HSS guitar. Another thing would be upgrading the pickups of your current guitar.
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#31
Quote by reverb66
Get an HSS guitar - you don't need a neck humbucker , you can use the bridge humbucker for heavy tones and the neck single coil for your cleans


HSS means hack saw shortened, right?
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#32
Quote by MaggaraMarine

If you want a guitar that works well for heavier music but also has those classic Fender tones, get an HSS guitar. Another thing would be upgrading the pickups of your current guitar.

The tone the OP was looking for was described as:
...between being a little heavy, but then have those clean light chimey Fender sounds.


I'd say a Fender Bassbreaker a Carvin V3 or V3M, or one of the Quilters.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#33
Quote by Dave_Mc

Just because the amp is "more important" doesn't mean that the guitar is "unimportant", which seems to be what a lot of people in here are saying.

Not at all.

It's just that amps, cabinets and pedals matter far more.
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#34
Quote by Tony Done
Dave_Mc 

Agreed, except I would substitute "pickup" for "guitar". You could stick Strat SCs in one of those spiky guitars if you were eccentric and into modding.
Hell, you could put high-output humbuckers in a Strat body. I know it seems crazy but it might just work.

Quote by Dave_Mc
I kinda disagree with what people are saying here. I have amps which are "heavy", and I still use my guitars with hotter pickups when I want heavier tones. Conversely, I have amps which are aimed at lighter tones, and I still use my guitars with lower output pickups when I want lighter tones.

Just because the amp is "more important" doesn't mean that the guitar is "unimportant", which seems to be what a lot of people in here are saying.
Totally, but essentially I'd sum it up by saying that while the guitar will absolutely have an important impact on the sound, the amp (in combination with whatever other gain stages and gadgets you put in the signal chain) is pretty much what defines the capabilities of your rig.

Also, of course, some sounds will be more affected by the guitar than others. Through a clean amp it's generally going to be pretty manageable to tell two dissimilar guitars apart, whereas making chugga-chuggas on a 6505 I would say it's unlikely anyone could tell the difference between a Tele and an Ibanez (obviously not if A/Bing them, but hearing either in isolation) without the player taking their hands off the strings and letting the hum happen (which, of course, is a practical concern that makes guitar choice relevant in many applications).
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Last edited by K33nbl4d3 at Apr 1, 2017,
#35
Quote by K33nbl4d3
Hell, you could put high-output humbuckers in a Strat body. I know it seems crazy but it might just work.

Eddie Van Halen...
#36
Quote by hnoel0981
Eddie Van Halen...
And the entire rest of the 1980s, yes.
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#37
Quote by K33nbl4d3
.


Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#38
Quote by Tony Done
Dave_Mc 

Agreed, except I would substitute "pickup" for "guitar". You could stick Strat SCs in one of those spiky guitars if you were eccentric and into modding.


Of course.
Quote by dannyalcatraz
I am absolutely NOT saying that: the guitar does matter, but pedals and amps matter more when it comes to determining "heaviness".

We've discussed how genre-bending guitarists will use guitars they love that seem otherwise ill-suited for their niche, and still killing it. But how many times o you see similar examples elsewhere in someone's rig?

How many Fender HRDs get used for high-gain metal? How many ENGL Invaders pop up at the Grand Ole Opry? How blind blues men & folkies use OKKO Dominators? How common is the Timmy in punk pedalboards?

I know stuff like that happens- someone in my church's music ministry uses an Orange & a 4x12, but not at the service I usually attend.* But I think the odds of that kind of iconoclastic decision is far rarer than using a BC Rich guitar for funk.


* Most likely the teen rock service.


I use a timmy to push high gain amps

And while I don't listen to it at all, really, I'm sure theogonia777 could tell you about all those more extreme metal bands who use the Boss HM2 into clean amps for their high gain tones.

But yeah I mean you just need to be careful that you're not implying that the guitar isn't important at all.

If you ask me sometimes these threads get a bit academic- it's a bit like the "should you use a cheap guitar with an expensive amp, or an expensive guitar with a cheap amp?" question which comes up a lot. The proper answer is probably, "Why would those be the only two options?"

And it's the same here- if I want heavy tones, I'm going to use an amp which is aimed at heavy tones, with a guitar which is also aimed at heavy tones. I'm not going to be 100% happy if I have to compromise on either of those.

Is the amp more important? Probably.*

Does that mean it's the only thing that matters? No.

And, as I keep banging on about, we need to be careful that we're not using a trite, oversimplified phrase or concept- which can be useful to remind us not to miss the wood for the trees, of course, but which probably shouldn't be our M.O. either- rather than actually thinking about it a bit more and saying, "No, actually this is a bit more complicated than that."

* Well it is if you ignore distortion pedals.

Quote by MaggaraMarine
What people are trying to say is that if you have an amp that's not capable of producing heavy tones, you can't fix it by buying a different guitar. You first need an amp that can achieve the tones that you are after. Guitar is more about fine tweaking. Well, in some cases it is more important - if you are after single coil tones, you need a guitar with single coils, and if you are after humbucker tones, you need a guitar with humbuckers. But heavy tones come from your amp. You can't make an amp that doesn't sound heavy, sound heavy by just plugging a different guitar into it.

So guitar definitely matters, but if your tone is not "heavy enough", your amp is more important than your guitar.

What guitar do you have at the moment?

If you want a guitar that works well for heavier music but also has those classic Fender tones, get an HSS guitar. Another thing would be upgrading the pickups of your current guitar.


You're kind of contradicting yourself, there, I'd say.

You say the amp's more important... but then you say if you want the sound of a certain guitar or pickup type, that the guitar is more important.

Personally, I'd say that in most instances, the sound of "heavy" is the sound of a (fairly hot) humbucker- into a high gain amp, probably, but still.

And even casting a wider net than the high gain thing, I'd say an awful lot of the time when you want a certain tone, there's a fair chance you have a pickup type in mind (whether you know it or not).

Yes, no pickup will turn a Fender Twin into a 6505. But there are a lot of amps which are more in the middle, where a hot pickup can be the difference between a classic rock type of tone and a more metal-orientated type of tone (and for a lot of types of metal, that's precisely the tone you want- you don't want a 6505 with a low output strat single coil plugged into it, you want, say, a JCM800 pushed with a Boss SD1 pushed with hot humbuckers).

Plus, coming at it from the other angle, I'd personally struggle to get a heavy tone which I was 100% happy with with low output single coils, even if I were using a 6505 or similar. If the amp were the sole factor influencing "heaviness", that wouldn't be the case.

That being the case, can you really say that the amp is the only factor in "heaviness", as most people are saying here?

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Not at all.

It's just that amps, cabinets and pedals matter far more.


Well, yes and no. If you need the sound of a humbucker, I'd say the guitar is pretty important- arguably more so.

It also very much depends on which amps, cabinets and pedals you're comparing.

I'd also say that it looks very much like that's what you're saying, even if you're not, and you need to be careful that other people don't take you up wrongly.
Quote by K33nbl4d3

Totally, but essentially I'd sum it up by saying that while the guitar will absolutely have an important impact on the sound, the amp (in combination with whatever other gain stages and gadgets you put in the signal chain) is pretty much what defines the capabilities of your rig.

Also, of course, some sounds will be more affected by the guitar than others. Through a clean amp it's generally going to be pretty manageable to tell two dissimilar guitars apart, whereas making chugga-chuggas on a 6505 I would say it's unlikely anyone could tell the difference between a Tele and an Ibanez (obviously not if A/Bing them, but hearing either in isolation) without the player taking their hands off the strings and letting the hum happen (which, of course, is a practical concern that makes guitar choice relevant in many applications).


I disagree.

It's certainly very, very clear to the person playing.

Also, again (like most in here) you're using two extreme amp types- the old clean amp thing, and then the 6505. Even for high gain tones, you don't always want the tone of a 6505. Yes, it's an industry standard for metal, but it's an industry standard for a certain type of metal. If you're not getting the 80s metal tones you like and you have an SSS strat and a fender twin, getting a 6505 won't necessarily totally solve your problem.

Closer?

Sure.

But to get bang-on, you may well need to sell that 6505 when you realise that what you actually needed was a guitar with humbuckers and a hot-rodded JCM800 or a Soldano.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Apr 2, 2017,
#39
Well, yes and no. If you need the sound of a humbucker, I'd say the guitar is pretty important- arguably more so.


But in the context of this thread's topic, "heaviness" isn't so much a property of the guitar, so much as it is the amp and pedals. With the right amp & stompboxes, any guitar can be "heavy" or "light".
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#40
I use Schecter guitars with EMG humbuckers for everything from death metal to green day to dream theater to clean chord strumming and pink floyd-ish clean/very lightly distorted soloing. All with the same amp, even. All the different tones I use for that are a function of amp channels, gain amount, eq, and a few pedals. Really dude, your amp and effects have much, much, much more to do with your tone than your guitar does. Everybody in this thread isn't just saying that because we're all part of a conspiracy to keep people from buying new guitars. We're saying it because it's a fact that every guitar player eventually learns, and we want you to learn it sooner than later, for your own sake.
Guitars
Schecter Hellraiser C-1FR, C-1 Classic, Hellraiser Hybrid Solo-II, Special Edition E-1FR-S
Orange Rockerverb 50 212
Basses
Yamaha RBX374 and Washburn MB-6
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