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#1
I just visited my local music store to get a new speaker cable and look at cab replacements for my cheap crappy one, and out of the corner of my eye, I saw a Bugerra all tube 5 watt with attenuator. What mostly got my attention was that it had TWO EQ knobs, instead of 1 like the Tiny Terror. Two is really all you need (a lot of them just have mids contrast the other two, I found a good article one time about that, but I couldn't now). I talked to the store employee, and they said all you need is a good amp that you can hear yourself with, and it doesn't really matter if anyone else can (when talking about micing amps). What is the minimum wattage necessary to be able to hear yourself and properly mic it? Is 5 watts enough? I know a lot of companies are making 5 watt versions of good quality tube amps (I've seen Fender, Vox, Marshall, etc.). Is this a coincidence that they're all 5 watts? Or is it not for micing?
Just a teenage girl who loves playing guitar way too much, if that's even possible.

I live for my girlfriend. <3
#2
To hear yourself OVER a rock drummer, around 30w. 50w is safer if you need loud, crstyal-clean cleans. But also at that point, you can end up with hearing damage from both the drummer and guitar amp. If you are using IEM's it does not really matter- there is no minimum wattage otherwise, just enough wattage for you to send a proper level to the PA (to reduce stage bleed into the mic) and for it to stay clean when you need it clean.
#3
totally depends on your PA and more importantly your monitors. any amp can be mic'd and if pumped thru the PA be heard by the audience. same goes if you have a good monitoring system and don't mind not being able to hear the actual amp on stage (many big name acts have the amps under the stage or elsewhere so they rely on the monitors completely.)  this of course is perfect world stuff. when playing bars and other lower end gigs chances are you're going to need to hear your amp on stage. agree that you are looking at 30 watts or better if playing a rock gig. blues or jazz may be able to get away with less if the music is more quiet. i personally prefer 50-60 watts. 

having your amp in a position where you can hear it is really important. just putting it on the floor of the stage  is far from deal. having it raised up higher will put i in a better position to be heard by you. 
#4
I only used my amp only as a secondary monitor, so it depended on how much other noise there was, especially the drummer. He wasn't especially loud, I sat a good distance from him, and the amp was fairly close to my ear, so I only needed about two or three watts. IOW, It depends on your setup and how you use the amp.

I think the growing popularity of small amps might have to do with PAs and micing, as you suggest, but also for home use. I used a Fender Blues Deluxe, but something much smaller would have suited provided, importantly, it had plenty of clean headroom. It did offer the advantage of not needing the PA if necessary.
#5
Okay, so should I get the Tiny Terror to be safe? It's not too much more, though it has no reverb, and has less EQ control. Honestly, I need a batter cab first, and that was actually the main goal of the visit (checking out cabs, I only have $50 avalable).
Just a teenage girl who loves playing guitar way too much, if that's even possible.

I live for my girlfriend. <3
#6
I've never used less than 30W, miked or otherwise, onstage. Aside from hearing yourself, there's also a noise threshold that I don't think can be overcome by a 5W amp. There are things like footsteps, other amps, rumble from the drums and a whole lot else that you really don't want going out the PA, and that *does* go out through the PA if your amp isn't loud enough. I know there are some folks that take the amps off the stage completely and put them under or behind the stage, and I suppose that works if you can isolate the miked amps. 
#7
1w is plenty if you have an efficient speaker and keep the amp close to you.  100db is f'ing loud clean headroom as long as it is close.  I gig pubs with 15w plenty without a mic and I sorta prefer the tone of a quality small amp.  When playing larger venues I just mount a 57 and we are good to go!

A Tiny Terror is a more toneful amp than the Bugera and build quality is much higher as well.  Buy an amp for great tone and never count the # of knobs.  If an amp sounds great, it sounds great.  Period.  Get the TT, Jet City, or Laney and walk right past the Bug.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Apr 18, 2017,
#8
Quote by Cajundaddy
1w is plenty if you have an efficient speaker and keep the amp close to you.  100db is f'ing loud clean headroom as long as it is close.  I gig pubs with 15w plenty without a mic and I sorta prefer the tone of a quality small amp.  When playing larger venues I just mount a 57 and we are good to go!

A Tiny Terror is a more toneful amp than the Bugera and build quality is much higher as well.  Buy an amp for great tone and never count the # of knobs.  If an amp sounds great, it sounds great.  Period.  Get the TT, Jet City, or Laney and walk right past the Bug.


Yeah, I really like the sound of the TT also. THat was my original thought. That thing is liud enough. 113 db (If my maths are right, it's just the first number to pop into my head) is really loud. 120 is jet engine loud, so I really don't need a 100 watt. I currently have a Micro Terror, so I guess all tube amps sound good to me in general. The MT has spoiled me so much that I can't play SS anymore. I even pick harder when playing accousticly to try and give the note more bite and harmonics, but obviously it doesn't work.
Just a teenage girl who loves playing guitar way too much, if that's even possible.

I live for my girlfriend. <3
#9
Quote by gogiregion
Okay, so should I get the Tiny Terror to be safe? It's not too much more, though it has no reverb, and has less EQ control. Honestly, I need a batter cab first, and that was actually the main goal of the visit (checking out cabs, I only have $50 avalable).

Safe? Is anyone really safe?  Hate to break it to you but this is a frame of mind,   Should I sleep with the .22 caliber on the nightstand or the .50 caliber on the nightstand?  Both are capable of killing the home intruder, yet the .50 is capable of killing him while he's hiding behind your neighbors refrigerator, 
Same applies to amps, Sure I can get the job done with the little guy, But I really feel the need to reach out and touch you,  
Some Like the feel of a smaller less  destructive piece, whereas others feel the need to leave a path of destruction in their wake,  If comfortable with a small amp then by all means buy a small amp,  Does the same job, just not as big a boom and may take a few more rounds to finish the job
Last edited by nastytroll at Apr 18, 2017,
#10
nastytroll

What YOU need, my friend, is a bedroom set actually made of semi automatic firearms. Then you can say, "There's no .50 cal on my nightstand, my nightstand is made of .50 cals!!! FEAR MY NIGHTSTAND!"
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#11
Quote by nastytroll
Safe? Is anyone really safe?  Hate to break it to you but this is a frame of mind,   Should I sleep with the .22 caliber on the nightstand or the .50 caliber on the nightstand?  Both are capable of killing the home intruder, yet the .50 is capable of killing him while he's hiding behind your neighbors refrigerator, 
Same applies to amps, Sure I can get the job done with the little guy, But I really feel the need to reach out and touch you,  
Some Like the feel of a smaller less  destructive piece, whereas others feel the need to leave a path of destruction in their wake,  If comfortable with a small amp then by all means buy a small amp,  Does the same job, just not as big a boom and may take a few more rounds to finish the job


That's why I used to sleep with an open knife in my hand.
Just a teenage girl who loves playing guitar way too much, if that's even possible.

I live for my girlfriend. <3
#12
I'm not sure I understand why you want to go with minimum wattage. Is it reduced cost? 

I get small and cute and all that, but if you're working with at least a 1x12 sized cabinet, why *not* have more power available, especially if you're gigging? 
The Carvin Nomad, for example, is around 40 lbs all up with a Celestion V30. It's a real two-channel amp (gain and clean), has 50W of EL84 power, and it's compact. And it's around $650 new. 

I have a couple of 5W EVJrs, one with the full Mercury Magnetics modification, and in a quiet room I've got no problem with what it can do. But you do lose bottom end when you crank them. For single-note style leads, you're okay, but for rhythm or anything using the bottom strings, not so much. It's not a matter of loudness (though the Carvin is very loud when you need it to be) -- it's more about the ability to maintain the whole spectrum of sounds at a given volume. 

I generally want to make sure that I have plenty of horsepower, not just the bare minimum. 
#13
Quote by dannyalcatraz
nastytroll

What YOU need, my friend, is a bedroom set actually made of semi automatic firearms.  Then you can say, "There's no .50 cal on my nightstand, my nightstand is made of .50 cals!!!  FEAR MY NIGHTSTAND!"

I have attack cats. 
#14
Hippos are arguably better. They never expect hippos.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#15
15 watt as in the Tiny Terror is in most cases loud enough to gig. I've played with big band orchestras with it.
Btw, think about the eq - you can set the treble to bright and use the guitar tone knobs.
In sone cases even 5w tube might be enough, I have a Marshall Class5 that is loud to cut above a drummer. Some people actually prefer lower wattage amps as they can get power tube saturation at lower levels.
#16
Quote by dannyalcatraz
nastytroll

What YOU need, my friend, is a bedroom set actually made of semi automatic firearms.  Then you can say, "There's no .50 cal on my nightstand, my nightstand is made of .50 cals!!!  FEAR MY NIGHTSTAND!"



Hey there Mr. Lawyer, make sure that is legal in his state (or Country) before recommending a semi-auto Nightstand.  

Now, here in Ohio, this wouldn't be a problem. But in Kalifornia or NY, there might be some issues. 


Now, back to the amp, I've seen 18w tube amps work well in a band situation. Even if micing, I would want to hear the amp so I wouldn't go less than 18. 
#17
If you're going to mic it, then it need a to be as loud as the lead singer, who also sings into a mic. If the mic fed into the PA can handle the singer, it can handle the amp. It's common sense.
#18
Micing, I am fine with my Mesa Blue Angel @ 18 watts...I can't even get it above 4 without it being too loud onstage. 
#19
Quote by Jeffh40
Hey there Mr. Lawyer, make sure that is legal in his state (or Country) before recommending a semi-auto Nightstand.  

Now, here in Ohio, this wouldn't be a problem. But in Kalifornia or NY, there might be some issues. 


Now, back to the amp, I've seen 18w tube amps work well in a band situation. Even if micing, I would want to hear the amp so I wouldn't go less than 18. 


As long as it isn't full-auto or equipped with a suppressor, it should be legal in all 50. Well...maybe not at a .50 cal, but a smaller caliber, for sure.

Of course, I could be wrong, so check with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Furniture.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#20
It depends on the particular  amp and how much clean headroom you need. I would say 15 watts tube is fine if you don't need clean headroom, and 30 watts and up if you do.

I would stress that you really need to test an individual amp within context to be sure - the relationship between perceived volume, wattage and specs is  not at all consistent from amp to amp. 
#21
The most important aspect of your amp is "can you stand on it" if you can't stand on it then forget it.

Those low watt amps are for studio work and home/rehearsal, get something with a little more power depending on your style of music, not every place is going to have a good PA or monitors.
I had a Fender Princeton which I believe was 22 watts, that was enough to play with a drummer.

I'm sure someone already said all that.
Also Bugera = Bheringer = Bheringer City (China) not necessarily a bad thing but there's a reason Bugera's are priced so low
#22
Quote by diabolical
15 watt as in the Tiny Terror is in most cases loud enough to gig. I've played with big band orchestras with it.
Btw, think about the eq - you can set the treble to bright and use the guitar tone knobs.
In sone cases even 5w tube might be enough, I have a Marshall Class5 that is loud to cut above a drummer. Some people actually prefer lower wattage amps as they can get power tube saturation at lower levels.


That's the point of the 7 watt switch on the TT. What I don't know about is mids. You can control trebble and bass with it, but I don't know about boosting or scooping mids.
Just a teenage girl who loves playing guitar way too much, if that's even possible.

I live for my girlfriend. <3
#24
Quote by diabolical
not really, the tone control is not precise, you might need an eq pedal if you don't like how it sounds, but it sounds good
Sometimes fewer controls are actually a good thing.


I like it… a lot. I personally think that if the tone knob was replaced with a bass and treble controll like some of the old Orange Amps. With two you can pretty much get all the same sounds that you can with three (as long as it's done right, some amps do, some don't). I think that an EQ pedal woild be good, though it sounds a bit different before and after the preamp (specifically reffering to mids). I can deal, though, for sure.
Just a teenage girl who loves playing guitar way too much, if that's even possible.

I live for my girlfriend. <3
#25
Quote by dannyalcatraz
As long as it isn't full-auto or equipped with a suppressor, it should be legal in all 50.  Well...maybe not at a .50 cal, but a smaller caliber, for sure.

Of course, I could be wrong, so check with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Furniture.

Iowa just passed new gun laws allowing pretty much anything, including concealed carry of .50 cal nightstands (specifically noted in one paragraph of the legislation). Because...cows. 
#26
I was wondering how this wandered into a gun discussion...

Nastytroll....
#27
Quote by dannyalcatraz
As long as it isn't full-auto or equipped with a suppressor, it should be legal in all 50.  Well...maybe not at a .50 cal, but a smaller caliber, for sure.

Of course, I could be wrong, so check with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Furniture.


If those clowns in the California statehouse get wind of this new type of furniture, it will be on their banned list for sure. If a Californian can't even have a removable magazine anymore for their long arms and they have to do a background check to buy ammo, there is no way they will let a semi-auto piece of furniture in the state. 
#28
Quote by 33db
I was wondering how this wandered into a gun discussion...

Nastytroll....

Not a gun discussion, it is a furniture discussion. 
#29
Quote by Jeffh40
If a Californian can't even have a removable magazine anymore for their long arms

I've got that and it's legal.

and they have to do a background check to buy ammo, there is no way they will let a semi-auto piece of furniture in the state. 

Drive to Nevada, make a day of it, bring your friends and a uhaul.

Also if this stuff really bugs you you need to get active in politics, one person (Kamala Harris) wanted all removable magazines banned and all centerfire ammo using guns.
That's pretty much everything.
#30
Quote by Jeffh40
Not a gun discussion, it is a furniture discussion. 

*eyeball roll* furniture with a caliber rating..
#31
Quote by 33db
I've got that and it's legal.


Drive to Nevada, make a day of it, bring your friends and a uhaul.

Also if this stuff really bugs you you need to get active in politics, one person (Kamala Harris) wanted all removable magazines banned and all centerfire ammo using guns.
That's pretty much everything.

My hats off to CalGuns and all the work they do. It has to be an up hill battle over there. Here in Ohio, regulations are easing not tightening so it's all good. 


What I really need is a suppressed nightstand but I don't want to pay the tax stamp. Where is congress at with that Hunter's hearing protection act?
#32
Quote by Jeffh40
My hats off to CalGuns and all the work they do. It has to be an up hill battle over there. Here in Ohio, regulations are easing not tightening so it's all good. 


What I really need is a suppressed nightstand but I don't want to pay the tax stamp. Where is congress at with that Hunter's hearing protection act?

I just want this to be a "shall issue" state, I don't want to go through the 3rd degree with the sheriff.
And yes, Calguns does good work, met my lawyer through that site.

Anyways wayyyy off topic: Orange makes good amps, 22 watts was good enough for playing with a drummer but head room is good to have.
Last edited by 33db at Apr 19, 2017,
#33
Quote by 33db
Orange makes good amps, 22 watts was good enough for playing with a drummer but head room is good to have.


Perfect for home defense.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#35
Quote by CodeMonk
They never expect Honey Badgers either.


But Honey Badgers are vulnerable to catfish...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#36
Quote by dannyalcatraz
But Honey Badgers are vulnerable to catfish...

You have any idea how expensive it is to feed hippos?
#37
Quote by 33db
You have any idea how expensive it is to feed hippos?

Yes.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#38
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Perfect for home defense.

Speaking of home defense, It is really amazing how many amps some up in the search when you google 357 amps. 


Or, I just need an alarm hooked up to a cranked 6505. That will deter anyone. 


Back again on topic, there is a bunch of 18 watt amps out there based on the original Marshal circuit that will work very nicely. 
#39
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Hippos are arguably better. They never expect hippos.


Hippos? Of course you'll need to be financially able to feed hippos they will eat a considerably more than attack cats!

Hippos are mean AF though. Make sure you are respaonsible with them look what happened to Colombia when Pablo Escobar's hippos after he died.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pablo-escobar-hippo-problems-in-colombia-2016-7
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#40
The problem I find relying on hearing your amp back through the monitors is that unless you have a great monitor system that can can give multiple mixes to the band, you will be asking to have your amp turned up in the monitors and the singer will be saying he can't hear anything in the monitors but your guitar. I think you should have enough wattage to hear yourself on stage. Also remember that your amps tone will be coming back through monitors that may not be reproducing what you want to hear tone wise. Monitors are there to help everyone hear each other and get balanced (hopefully) so you have to compromise on certain aspects of the volume and EQ settings on the monitors. They aren't there just for you. As others said above, it all depends on your PA and the quality of the monitors and the person running them. I play gigs in clubs of all sizes, some big some small. Some have their own PA and monitors but they are often not the best. At others we use my PA. Personally, I want the monitors so I can clearly hear the other vocalists (we do a lot of harmony). While I do mic by amp or run a direct out the board I don't want to rely on monitors for my guitar sound. Too many variables to go wrong and ruin my night and arguing with the sound guy and other members of the band because I'm not hearing what I want. 
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Apr 20, 2017,
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