#1
Last edited by jimenezmichael368 at Apr 20, 2017,
#2
What are you trying to accomplish? Any money spent on Chinese pickups will surely be a waste.
#3
Quote by jimenezmichael368
Im looking to change the stock pickups on my 90s jackson ps3T has anyone heard of these dragonfire crusader pickups? 


Are you looking just to change pickups or to improve your sound? If the latter, what makes you think these will improve anything? 
#4
What kind of rig are you playing through? Without a decent amp pickups are not going to make much difference.

I would avoid a set of pickups that only cost $44, you'll be better off buying some used brand name pups from eBay etc.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

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Time for primal concrete sledge

#6
Dragonfire's are just rebranded GFS, actually made by someone else I cant remember the name of right now,  Nothing more, As to pickups they're just pole pieces or rails with copper wire wrapped around them in a few different variations, nothing more, So if you feel the need to go out and buy a set of $250 a piece Bare Knuckles, what do you suppose they're made of?  Perhaps the same thing as those cheap GFS? 
Wanna know a secret?   People are stupid and pickups aint rocket science,  I actually used a set of the Dragonfire power rails in a custom build I did awhile back. Sound great, Granted the guitar also has a $450 dollar Graphtech Ghost Hexpander Piezo system and I use a very high end tube amps,  But other than that there's nothing at all wrong with its $50 dollar pickups, Cant tell the difference between those and a $500 dollar set,  Although I'm sure there's many here that would disagree with me, But then again they could be Logo Whores and believe that logo makes them sound better,  
Unfortunately that amp your using wont make anything sound good, 
#7
I would disagree that you can't tell the difference between low end and high end pickups, though I will say that quality and price are not directly related. Some inexpensive pickups do sound quite good, and some "boutique" pickups are definitely overpriced.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#8
Quote by jimenezmichael368
Evilnine
I have a line 6 spyder amp

You're not going to get any noticeable improvement swapping pickups and playing through that amp. The amp is the tonal foundation, pickups are more for fine adjustments, and those particular amps are notoriously bad. I really recommend you save up for a better amp (though what amp I'd recommend will depend on more information about what kind of music you play, what your budget is, where you are, etc.)

That said, you're not going to get a better amp for $50, so if there's no possibility of starting an amp fund in the foreseeable future, I guess it wouldn't hurt to try a pickup swap. (As long as you're competent enough with a soldering iron to install them yourself, because paying someone to do so would probably cost more than the pickups and would start pushing you into territory where you should be saving for an amp.) I think they're unlikely to be an improvement at all, and I know there won't be an appreciable difference through that amp, but if you're really determined to go for a pickup change without any improvement in the rest of your rig at least these would be less wasteful than putting in a set of, say, Bareknuckles or Antiquities. (Again, if you're installing them yourself and know how to do that; if you don't, you could end up going from a functional guitar to a giant paperweight, and if you pay someone you're really wasting money that could do much more good spent elsewhere.)
#9
I need to have a plan before I go swapping pickups. For starters, I'll want to have listened to the guitar through a much higher-end amplifier. Second, I'll want to have listened to the pickups on a guitar *in person* before selecting a specific set.  Selecting pickups based on forum opinion or even on YouTube videos is usually a bad idea. And finally, I'll want to know what it is I want to accomplish with the new pickups. 

Don't swap pickups simply because it's the cheapest sound mod you can make to your guitar. 
#10
Quote by dspellman


1. Selecting pickups based on forum opinion or even on YouTube videos is usually a bad idea. And finally, I'll want to know what it is I want to accomplish with the new pickups. 

2. Don't swap pickups simply because it's the cheapest sound mod you can make to your guitar. 


1. Agree, but this has its limitations. How many pickups does Dimarzio alone make? What are the chances that someone has one of the more oddball sets in the middle of Podunk, NC? Sometimes you gotta take a leap, and forums/YouTube can help (though I agree with what you've said before, buying what the consensus recommends everytime breeds mediocrity).

2. Agree completely.

TS, don't waste your money at this point. Those pickups may sound better than what you've got, but the amp is first on the chopping block.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#11
Quote by dementiacaptain
1. Agree, but this has its limitations.  How many pickups does Dimarzio alone make?  What are the chances that someone has one of the more oddball sets in the middle of Podunk, NC?  Sometimes you gotta take a leap, and forums/YouTube can help (though I agree with what you've said before, buying what the consensus recommends everytime breeds mediocrity).


Excellent point. 

I rarely swap pickups. In one case the guitar had Invaders and it sounded SO bad that I ended up putting Tom Andersons on it and stuffing the invaders (they'll go with the guitar when it leaves) in the case pocket. In another, a set of "Duncan Design" fake hot rails sounded pretty bad and I replaced them with real Hot Rails. In most cases I'll have heard the pickups I want to use in another guitar. And in a few cases, I've listened to the recommendations of a tech or a musician I trust. But 90% of the guitars I own have their original pickups. 

I recently noticed a Moonstone Eclipse on eBay from about 1980. Only 81 were ever built. Hippie Sandwich style guitar, neck-through with body wings of maple burl top and bottom and a mahogany core. Current value around $3 to $4 thousand, condition depending.  I tracked down the second owner, who'd replaced the very-difficult-to-source Bartolini Actives originally on the guitar with SDs. "Oh, they sounded fine. I just figured that whatever was on the guitar originally would be mediocre and that putting a set of SDs on it would upgrade it because they're aftermarket. And I didn't want to replace a battery now and then."  

As we always say, "It's your guitar..." but in this case the guy lost a solid $800-1000 at resale time by replacing and then losing the original pickups. Some "upgrade." 
#12
nastytroll
LysanderSpoon
As for the amp any recommendations? Im into more like rock, grunge. Punk. On some occassions a bit of metalica, black sabbath. Acdc.
I need something more like just to play at home. Like 15 w to 30w. Or if any pedals that you recommend that can take these tone variences.
Last edited by jimenezmichael368 at Apr 22, 2017,
#13
Budget?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#17
Quote by dspellman
In another, a set of "Duncan Design" fake hot rails sounded pretty bad and I replaced them with real Hot Rails.


Maybe I'm being too cynical, or maybe I just really don't much like Hot Rails, but I notice you didn't clarify whether the "real" Hot Rails sounded any better...

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
jimenezmichael368 

You might be able to find a used Jet City JCA 20 or JCA 22 in that price range.  Maybe a used Peavey Valveking 112.  I'm sure there are other options out there.  Those are the two I could think of off of the top of my head.  

If you saved up a bit more, your options would increase quite a bit.  You've got time to save, and you should do so.  A little here and a little there stacks up over time.  Make sure what you get is what you really want.  It's always a bummer making an impulse buy only to find a few months later that you're not all that happy with it anymore.  
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#19
Quote by Dave_Mc
Maybe I'm being too cynical, or maybe I just really don't much like Hot Rails, but I notice you didn't clarify whether the "real" Hot Rails sounded any better...


You're not being TOO cynical, and I've discovered that I'm not a big fan of Hot Rails either, and they're no longer in the guitar. They *did* sound better than what was in there before, but honestly, I've been playing with a third pair of single-coil size humbuckers since the HRs were installed. 

I just thought that was a story for another day   
#20
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#21
Check out Panama Guitars Conqueror 5w.  Occasionally there's some B-stocks for like 330.  Would be worth saving up for.  I have one and it's such a killer amp with a FANTASTIC sound

As for pickups....  I don't know how much I'd trust those... can't go wrong IMO with seymour duncans or something of the nature.
#22
Quote by dspellman
You're not being TOO cynical, and I've discovered that I'm not a big fan of Hot Rails either, and they're no longer in the guitar. They *did* sound better than what was in there before, but honestly, I've been playing with a third pair of single-coil size humbuckers since the HRs were installed. 

I just thought that was a story for another day   


hahahahaha

EDIT: the funny thing about it (I have the neck version- it came stock in the guitar) is that it actually sounds quite decent split. bit of a consolation prize, though- if your main aim was single coil tones there are better pickups for that, but I guess just for balance I should point out that it's not all bad.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Apr 23, 2017,
#23
Quote by CHalbach


As for pickups....  I don't know how much I'd trust those... can't go wrong IMO with seymour duncans or something of the nature.

There's no magical benefit to buying expensive pickups; it's all the same basic magnet, wire, bobbin, and you'd be surprised at how little those cost in bulk. What you're paying for with the better known commercial winders is a lot of advertising used to convince you to BUY their products, and a lot of layers of profit taken by the brick and mortars (and the corporations, if online) that sell them.  Remember that it's possible to get a very good set of pickups on a $130 guitar, and someone is making a profit on that $130 guitar and paying for shipping, manufacturing, raw materials (and a profit for the manufacturer) in the process. 
#24
Quote by jimenezmichael368
nastytroll
LysanderSpoon
As for the amp any recommendations? Im into more like rock, grunge. Punk. On some occassions a bit of metalica, black sabbath. Acdc.
I need something more like just to play at home. Like 15 w to 30w. Or if any pedals that you recommend that can take these tone variences.

Jet City will do that. Sometimes Musicians Friend will have them as a stupid deal or in one of their amp sales for around $300, or you could look for a used one. You can also find used Peavey Valvekings in the $200 range if you're patient; those would really need a boost to get to Metallica territory, I think, but if you could find one under $250 you could get a Joyo Vintage Overdrive, set volume all the way up, gain very low, and tone to taste, and still be under your budget.
#25
dannyalcatraz Like Bare Knuckles. A little too pricey compared to DiMarzio.

If I were you I would save for a new amp. Buy a used 6505+ combo amp or something. Something I need to do myself since I am ampless ATM. You can get them for around $350+.
#26
nathandavis87

Well, with the post-Brexit decline of the purchasing power of the pound, Bareknuckles have become a fair bit cheaper.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#28
They shot themselves in the foot. Not that they're alone in that...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#29
I hope the Dragonfire pups are OK because I just ordered a pair about a week ago to put on an LP Black Beauty clone (3 pickups). I already installed a Stew Mac Golden Age pup in the neck position (nice pickup) and am planning on replacing the middle and bridge with the Dragonfire's. Got my fingers crossed. 

I agree with Dspellman (as I find I often do). While I was working with a luthier who winds his own pickups (and sells them for incredible prices), I got to watch them being made and saw that with just some basic knowledge, patience and a modern pick up winder you can make a custom pickup coil in about 15-20 minutes (depending on how many winds you want) and double that for a humbucker (two coils). It's not exactly a magic formula. It's the knowledge of what pickups sound like using different gauges of wire and the number of winds on the bobbin. Like a lot of gear I am sure that there are people who have developed their own special method of making pickups through much trial and error and have settled on certain wire gauges and winds for their pickups but I can't see it making a huge difference above a certain price point. I'm not talking about a very cheap $15 Chinese set on EBay,  but I can't see why Gibson 57 Classic (PAF) cost $150 when a similarly wound GFS Fat Pat cost $35-40. Is there really a big difference in sound? I think the difference is not as big as we have been led to believe. 
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Apr 24, 2017,
#30
Dragonfires are good pickups. I have a set in my LTD. Although the only reason they got swapped was because they had a set of lifeless EMG HZs in there from the factory. 
They are not cheap chinese crap. 
That said, I agree with the above people. Changing pickups and still using the Line 6 amp will get you nothing. The Spiders don't care what pickups you use, they will all sound the same. Dump the Spider first. 
Harmony: Stratocaster
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A steadily growing supply of pedals
#31
Quote by Rickholly74
I hope the Dragonfire pups are OK because I just ordered a pair about a week ago to put on an LP Black Beauty clone (3 pickups). I already installed a Stew Mac Golden Age pup in the neck position (nice pickup) and am planning on replacing the middle and bridge with the Dragonfire's. Got my fingers crossed. 

I agree with Dspellman (as I find I often do). While I was working with a luthier who winds his own pickups (and sells them for incredible prices), I got to watch them being made and saw that with just some basic knowledge, patience and a modern pick up winder you can make a custom pickup coil in about 15-20 minutes (depending on how many winds you want) and double that for a humbucker (two coils). It's not exactly a magic formula. It's the knowledge of what pickups sound like using different gauges of wire and the number of winds on the bobbin. Like a lot of gear I am sure that there are people who have developed their own special method of making pickups through much trial and error and have settled on certain wire gauges and winds for their pickups but I can't see it making a huge difference above a certain price point. I'm not talking about a very cheap $15 Chinese set on EBay,  but I can't see why Gibson 57 Classic (PAF) cost $150 when a similarly wound GFS Fat Pat cost $35-40. Is there really a big difference in sound? I think the difference is not as big as we have been led to believe. 


they definitely sound different. you can just use your ears to figure that ou.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#32
Quote by AcousticMirror
they definitely sound different. you can just use your ears to figure that ou.

Different enough to be worth the price difference is something people can reasonably debate over--although I think more in terms like "is a vintage PAF good enough to be worth $600+ for a pickup vs. a current-production Gibson '57 Plus at $165 per or a Duncan '59 at under $200 a set" than "is a vintage PAF better than a GFS vintage-style humbucker"--but yeah, I can't imagine saying there's no detectable difference in the sound at all.
#33
Vintage PAFs go for $600 each?

Now I really don't feel bad paying 1/3 of that for custom winds.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#34
Quote by LysanderSpoon
Different enough to be worth the price difference is something people can reasonably debate over--although I think more in terms like "is a vintage PAF good enough to be worth $600+ for a pickup vs. a current-production Gibson '57 Plus at $165 per or a Duncan '59 at under $200 a set" than "is a vintage PAF better than a GFS vintage-style humbucker"--but yeah, I can't imagine saying there's no detectable difference in the sound at all.


well it depends. is that vintage pay 600 because it's an actual vintage piece and limited supply? then you are paying for the fact that it's limited.

gibson pickups all suck ass. every one of them so that's not hard to beat.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#35
Quote by AcousticMirror
well it depends. is that vintage pay 600 because it's an actual vintage piece and limited supply? then you are paying for the fact that it's limited.


yep bingo
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
AcousticMirror

Yeah- if i have something vintage that got modified, and I'm looking to return it to original condition, that makes 100% sense.

Otherwise...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#37
i mean right now the difference between the best pickups you can possibly buy and just random pickups is like 100 bucks.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer