#1
Since the days of youth I wanted to do biamping like John Entwistle and Geddy Lee had done at one brief point.

Massive cabinets and power amps were all that eluded me in the past. Well, then there is money and transport of course.

Forgetting about all of that, going on with life, and returning to playing I let go of biamping, but did want to put a similar rig to John's together.

John had an Ashdown RPM-1 Preamp, Digitech 2120 and StudioQuadv2, a TC Electronics programable EQ, and 2 Ashdown RPM1000 and 1 RPM600 Power Ampifiers (plus 1 RPM1000 in reserve).  This means that his performance wattage was 2600watts.

I looked it up and decided I would keep what I like of my stuff (Genz Benz GBE600 Preamp and Yamaha PB-1 Preamp) Baltic Birch Neo-X cabinets, and integrate some of his, such as the Digitech 2120 and Studio Quad, which are still languishing in the Vault Rack awaiting 'someday'. (Common people, non-bass players would approach me about how much they were enjoying the tone, so I was reticent to change too much of what I was doing.)

Getting involved with a local act I awoke months later having accumulated a Rig that I used at Schlitterbahn which was 2 Neo-X 400's on side wash, and 2 GBE1200's pushing 2 Neo-X 212's and 4 Neo-X 112's.  (The sound guy said "I am calling my bass player in my band, he is going to DIIIIIIIIIE when he sees this!)

This was a soul enriching 3000watts of dual vectored thrust.

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/Sliide90027/pictures/gear/general/1409041



Since I prefer the GBE600/NeoX400 Preamp, this rig gives me 2 backup preamps on stage.  Everything else is slaved through power and effect Return inputs.

While the Schlitterbahn gig topped out at 3000 watts, by placing the GBE600 in the rack as shown in the pic, and running it as a 8 ohm 300w slave to the NeoX[v2](tolex cab) on top of the two combo amps, that is a 3300watt (900w Wash/2400 Backline) array that Jeff Genzler, the designer of the gear, called "a nice arsenal".

I reached and exceeded the Wattage of my Forebearer Bass god!  And my hearing is in tact!


Other notes:
Festival Gig with ShuttleMax 12.0 and 4 12"s of NeoX, and excluded from the Mix, was said to have savaged the 2600watt PA and rocked the field.  Volume was maybe 10-11 o'clock

American Bank Center Expo Center - 2400 Watts of GBE and NeoX - Two 4x12 Towers - Volume was probably 8-9 o'clock.  Lots of compliments on tone that day.

American Bank Center Arena (10k seats) -  2400 Watts of GBE and NeoX - Two 4x12 Towers - Volume was probably 9-10 o'clock defeating the slapback coming off the back wall.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
#3
Got an Ashdown RPM1 for sale if you're interested.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#4
John one got away from me recently for about 325 on ebay.

I really was not too interested since I have decided that I am not going to biamp, which a device like that with a subharmonic setting in the eq really deserves.

I suppose Mr. Entwistle had some hearing damage from the loudest rock band days and said he had to feel the bass, which is why he kept biamping, from what I read.

If there was more money and a larger van.......

I do know that I have been really inspired by the tone of the GBE600 Preamp sections, so my emulations of Mr. Entwistle's Rig will be very conceptual in application.  I certainly do not have an actual CF Buzzard to make tone with.

Also, the PB-1's that I have 2 available to use, are still quite viable to helping me get close to what I love about my tone, but not quite.  It is nice to have them around as a friend of mine with a studio did a shoot out on Bass through it, an Avalon SP737, and a Neve Channel strip.  He said the $75 PB-1 cleaned up the field, beat them all on a flat setting.

So, take heart, and send me a private message in two months.  You never know.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
#5
Sliide90027 Are you in the UK? I'm in North Derbyshire, as I've moved on to a Markbass the RPM1 can go for £225 ovno it is in good nick, I've been thinking of putting it in a local music store on a commission sale.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#6
It's a good thing your hero wasn't Ace Frehley:



Outdoing that would be very expensive!
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#7
Fatal Gear - I did out do him.

He has only 1000 Watts.  I have 3300 watts

While in the past it took 2 times more watts to produce the same volume of bass to guitar, I still beat Ace, as all I needed would be 2000 Watts to his 1000.
I would still plow him under with far fewer speakers too.

Had a guitarist boss who had 6 412's and was Ohm mismatched on 2 SS 100 watt Crate Heads running 3 cabs each.  I was running just one of the NeoX Combo amps and one external NeoX 112 cab, and it nuked him.  He fired me for being too loud, because his rig could not produce any body of tone as he was melting is power transistors.

Ace's operation has the count correct.  2 Cabs per Head. (I got the guitarist in Corpus to get a second cab to my initial inline 412 stack, and he really began to love his Marshall even more than before.  I made him a 12/2 SOOW power cord to feed his Marsh, and he refused to be without it, because he swore the tone was effected.)

I would still roast him, and Jeff Genzler would say definitely as " The power section of the GBE 1200 amplifier is rated to deliver full power into a reactive load with a 45 degree (leading or lagging) power factor phase angle. This is one important reason why all Genz Benz amplifiers sound so big! " per the Tech Manual.

I am not pretending that I know what this means much less able to defend it. (snicker snicker) But I would devastate that array.

Just the math proves it out.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
#8
The fact that those cabs could be a proper square, and aren't, bothers me way more than it should.
#10
Quote by Sliide90027
Fatal Gear - I did out do him.

He has only 1000 Watts.  I have 3300 watts

While in the past it took 2 times more watts to produce the same volume of bass to guitar, I still beat Ace, as all I needed would be 2000 Watts to his 1000.
I would still plow him under with far fewer speakers too.

Had a guitarist boss who had 6 412's and was Ohm mismatched on 2 SS 100 watt Crate Heads running 3 cabs each.  I was running just one of the NeoX Combo amps and one external NeoX 112 cab, and it nuked him.  He fired me for being too loud, because his rig could not produce any body of tone as he was melting is power transistors.

Ace's operation has the count correct.  2 Cabs per Head. (I got the guitarist in Corpus to get a second cab to my initial inline 412 stack, and he really began to love his Marshall even more than before.  I made him a 12/2 SOOW power cord to feed his Marsh, and he refused to be without it, because he swore the tone was effected.)

I would still roast him, and Jeff Genzler would say definitely as " The power section of the GBE 1200 amplifier is rated to deliver full power into a reactive load with a 45 degree (leading or lagging) power factor phase angle. This is one important reason why all Genz Benz amplifiers sound so big! " per the Tech Manual.

I am not pretending that I know what this means much less able to defend it. (snicker snicker) But I would devastate that array.

Just the math proves it out.

You have to remember that the picture shows only one rack of amps.  IIRC, KISS used about seven of those colossal Marshall amplifier towers, so multiply the picture times seven.  And I was really going for how much more those Marshalls must have cost them.

You'd also have to compete with Gene's fourteen or so Ampeg SVTs.   
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#11
Well Fatal, I was going by Watts.  Mr. Entwisle had more sizable stacks, but those are apples and oranges.

Gene dumped the SVT's
" Where a lot of times the older ampegs I have to turn it on an hour, two hours before the show. By the end of the show, because we drive it really hard, we drive the amps really hard, the tone is changed because those tubes are so hot and the capacitors are so hot that it doesn't sound as good. "

Thermodynamics is a Bitch.

My friend Andy Fuchs some years back was telling me how every SVT on the Sting Tour came in via UPS for Bench Time.  They all FAILED at one point or another.  Keep amps off bass speaker cabinets.

I was also reading how many of the cabs on the stage for Kiss where not used.

When I opened for Pat Travers and Molly Hatchet They had 4 SVT's on stage for their performances, but Pat's Bassist brought his own Tech21 with him for his Tone.

So, if Gene used 14 SVT's at 300w @ that is 4200watts to my 3300, and the GBE Technology might be big enough sounding to give him a good run for the money.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
Last edited by Sliide90027 at Apr 25, 2017,
#12
Soviet, the floor in my room is not even to begin with.

I do not own the house so it is what it is.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
#13
Quote by Sliide90027
Fatal Gear - I did out do him.

He has only 1000 Watts.  I have 3300 watts


But wouldn't you need 10x1000 watts to be twice as loud as 1000 watts. also there is a difference between loudness and volume.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
Last edited by John Swift at Apr 26, 2017,
#14
John I did not go into the ethereal pet debate of loudness v. volume.

I exceeded Entwistle and have over 3x the power depicted in the photo of Ace.

Perhaps loudness is only captured by the visual effect given to eyes.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
#15
So Gene's not using this anymore?

(Invalid img)

20 SVTs on top of 20 8x10 cabinets?  

What a sellout!!!
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
Last edited by FatalGear41 at Apr 26, 2017,
#17
Stages are portable things.  They can and do buckle
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
Last edited by Sliide90027 at Apr 28, 2017,
#18
Quote by Sliide90027
John I did not go into the ethereal pet debate of loudness v. volume.

I exceeded Entwistle and have over 3x the power depicted in the photo of Ace.

Perhaps loudness is only captured by the visual effect given to eyes.

This is why so many people get it all wrong because true facts are stifled, we were conned into buying bigger higher wattage amps without really understanding about how much you would have to increase wattage to double you accoustic power. I bought a Gauss 200 watt 15" speaker in the 1970s which was the biggest let down ever this was before we were taught about the importance of loudspeaker efficiency over all the audio spectrum and why cabinet design was also very importment in getting the optimum performance out of Bass orientated loudspeakers, But and a big but is the difference between understanding the difference between loudness and volume of sound.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#19
Quote by John Swift
I bought a Gauss 200 watt 15" speaker in the 1970s which was the biggest let down ever.

Did your back ever forgive you?  I remember Gauss back in the 70's.  They were the heaviest bass speakers I've ever encountered.  I think they were designed to survive the nuclear apocalypse.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#20
It was in a folded horn cab which made it even heavier, quite frankly after all the blurb about assembled in 'clean air conditions' I was glad to let it go due to not noticing any noticeable improvement over my previous gear.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#21
I used to operate and repair a PA with 2 Sub Cabs from the 70's Made by Dieter Fust who made George Jones' PA.

It was Dieter having these cabs returned to his Shop drooling and caressing these personal creations of his made with 11 ply baltic birch that made me take notice of BalticBirch.

They had 2 18" Gauss speakers, rear loaded in a Conch configuration where there was no a right angle in the whole  sound path.

I remember Gauss claimed that you could just plug these in to 110v with a lamp cord and the Voice Coils would not melt.

So, the brilliant Grammy Nominated Guitarist/Band Leader/PA Designer had me running these 4 18" Gauss drivers with Half of a Peavey CS800.  That was 2Ohms and infinite Wattage hunger.

Needless to say I was replacing Power Transistors every Night for a while, as the monsters reached down the speaker wires and yanked those things out of the Amp, until I ignored the prior engineers dismissal of Heat Sink paste as a repair requirement.  Then I was replacing the Transistors every other night.

I could never go forward with Biamping after these cabs, and also after the folded W 18" Cerwin Vega with an 8x10 on top crossed over at 100hz driven by a Crown MicroTech 1000.  It was huge,practically took the roof off of the Warehouse I was showcasing in, but it was not going to be something I was ever going to move.

I suppose that my previous experience with Claire Brothers Audio running sound for Petra when I opened for them 5 times moved BiAmping to a novelty for me.

The Stage volume of the 2 Meyers Cabinets per side with me in the Mix was so magnificent that I turned off the MicroTech and waived my cabinet off the stage by the Union Hands. 

It was just my basses, the Yamaha PB-1, ADA TFX4, and the Boss DE-200 for my 5 openers. These were defining experiences for me, not hard to believe when later my friend doing a shoot out between the PB-1 and his Neve Channel Strip had the PB winning with the better tone.
Ibanez BTB 1006 Fretless and 405 (no Barts)
456 & 455(w/Barts)
Genz Benz NeoX400 112T & NeoX 112T cab.
Digitech BP-8 (x2)
Yamaha PB-1
Boss: SYB-5, PS-2, OD-20, EQ-20, PH-3,BF-3, CE-20, DD-20
Morely A/B
#22
Not surprised you burnt out the power transistors, Peavey claimed they'd work into 2 ohms but any knowledgable retailer would advise against it especially for bottom end use.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn