#1
Hey guys, Im about to finish my pedal rig with all my effects but at my church unfortunately they dont allow amps and the best sound and unique sound comes from an amp ... Theres no other way, a hood guitar player will know that. I was wondering if buying a preamp pedal like the giggity of voodoo laba will be a good enough solution? I dont want to buy a cab sim tho because is too much simulation sound and it will degrade the sound of the guitar ... Therefore I was intending to use the PA speakers as my only speakers. What should I buy anyway tho? Dont wanna talk about multieffects here guys ... Just real stuff and solutions to my effects rig that I have.
#2
Quote by Jeanpr002
. Theres no other way, a hood guitar player will know that. 

Ca'mon man... You realize that there are a ton of gigging pros, dare I say legends, that use all digital to get their "amp tone".  Fractal has been doing it for years.  Kemper is kicking ass and now even Line 6 is in the game with Helix.

You'll find that solid state amp sims don't take pedals all that great.  So while you have a board and want to use it, you'd probably be better with a multi-effects that has amp and cab sims.

Also, if you don't use an cab impulse/sim then you're pre-amp pedal will sound terrible.

can you use an amp if it's not hooked up?  if its just the volume level they're concerned with looking into load boxes that can Di out into the mixer/PA.  Two Notes Torpedo Live, Marshall se1000, Radial's, Rivera's. etc.
'16 Gibson LP Standard T, '95 Fender MIM Strat
Helix Rack, Jetcity JCA50H w/ JCA24s+
#3
Jeanpr002 I might get some flack here for this, but the Tubemiester 5 is great and has a great little DI. I use it clean, with my pedal board handling everything I need it to. I don't think I've played a show with it where it didn't get complicated. In my experience, a church that really cares about their performance is also going to have a good sound guy, in-ears, or stage monitors, something like this would be more than acceptable.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Hughes-Kettner/TM5H-TUBE-MEISTER-5W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head.gc

It's definitely not my Splawn, but I built a pedal board around both amps so that I can handle whatever i need to handle.
Splawn Street Rod
H&K Tubemeister 5
Line 6 G90 System

Gibson SG Standard
Godin Radiator
Dillion 653 GA/3CT
Seagull Coastline s6
New Music on Spotify
#4
DirtFarmer well they just dont want an amp because of the space so what should i buy if Im going directly to the mixer with my pedal effects? Thats the queation....
Also,if i consider to buy an amp combo like the fender hot rod deluxe III, that is a tube amp and probably the one that im gonna buy soon, can I connect it to whichever d.i box and it will transmit the sound of it without producing sound through the speaker cab of it because they dont wanna hear any sound coming from the altar?
#5
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#6
Quote by Jeanpr002
can I connect it to whichever d.i box and it will transmit the sound of it without producing sound through the speaker cab of it because they dont wanna hear any sound coming from the altar?

Just make sure whichever DI box you buy is a load box.  Something has to absorb the power from the amp or you'll damage the amp.  The load box lets you crank the tubes to get that sound but then has a cab sim so you don't hear the guitar cab but instead have a line out to the PA to play at whatever level you need.
'16 Gibson LP Standard T, '95 Fender MIM Strat
Helix Rack, Jetcity JCA50H w/ JCA24s+
#7
Jeanpr002 Are they not willing to put the amp in a back room with long cable runs? Or do you have a back room to access in the first place? Any location that is relatively isolated from the stage. Even just behind/underneath the stage, with some acoustic proofing to reduce the sound and reflections. I keep my amp in a back room at my Church building. Any Church body that wants a professional sounding guitar needs to have capabilities to work with physical guitar amps, either in an iso room, iso box, etc.

As far as amp sims, the Tech 21 Sansamp Character series are my go-to suggestion. You NEED cabinet simulation as well as amp simulation, as the speaker response applied to the signal is integral to having a proper guitar sound. The Tech 21 units come with cab simulation. You can use a load box with your tube amp. Some load boxes will send the signal to the internal speaker but also give you a signal (typically with a speaker sim curve applied) at a much lower level to be used by a sound board. Some load boxes will completely reduce the signal, requiring you NOT to connect it back to the internal speaker. But again, you need speaker simulation whichever way you go.
Last edited by Will Lane at Apr 26, 2017,
#8
Been doing this for a while at church with great results.  Buy a tech 21 fly rig.  I use the original fly rig 5.  Sans amp in the unit sounds just like a fender.  Run output of fly rig to input of a good direct box.  I use a Radial Pro DI 1.  Run output of DI to house mixer via xlr cable.  Use the send (next to the input jack on the Radial) to send your guitar signal to a powered mixer so you can hear yourself.  I use a Galaxy powered spot monitor on a mic stand in front of me.  Works great and everybody is happy.
#9
I also lead P&W so i don't like a boom stand in front of me so I use a wireless headset as well as wireless system on guitar.  I have total freedom of movement.  I have the expensive Shure wirelsss guitar system but prefer the Line 6 G10 system.
#10
Bob Sherwood

What is it about the Line 6 you prefer over the Shure?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#11
I've used any of the Tech21 Character series pedals direct to the PA, and they sound amazing. Currently I am using one of their FlyRigs, which sounds magnificent direct to the PA. 
Dave @ Seymour Duncan
#12
Quote by Jeanpr002
Hey guys, Im about to finish my pedal rig with all my effects but at my church unfortunately they dont allow amps and the best sound and unique sound comes from an amp ... Theres no other way, a hood guitar player will know that. I was wondering if buying a preamp pedal like the giggity of voodoo laba will be a good enough solution? I dont want to buy a cab sim tho because is too much simulation sound and it will degrade the sound of the guitar ... Therefore I was intending to use the PA speakers as my only speakers. What should I buy anyway tho?  Dont wanna talk about multieffects here guys ... Just real stuff and solutions to my effects rig that I have.


So much fail in the quote, above. You have opinions, but no no real idea what you're talking about. 
I think some of the above statement might have been accurate a dozen years ago, but not these days. 

Nonetheless, you need a preamp of some kind. 

Cheapest would probably be a used Pod XT bean (they're showing up for well under $100 on my craigslist these days), and then simply turn off the cab and amp sims. 

There are tube preamps out there, used (I have three: a Carvin Quad-X, a Mesa Tri-Axis, and an Egnater M-4), and you can run direct into a board with one of those. 

There are simple load boxes that run between your tube amp and the mixer for the PA. Most of the better ones have some kind of cab simulation available that you can leave on or turn off, but you'll get most of the sound of your tube amp (including the power section). My favorites are the Palmer and the Two-Notes Studio, both of which DO have cab sims that can be turned off. 

ALL of the pedal setups are simulating something (amp, cab), so you're no better off than you would be with a multiFX like a Pod, Helix, Axe, Kemper, Amplifire, etc.  
Last edited by dspellman at Apr 26, 2017,
#13
Quote by Jeanpr002
DirtFarmer well they just dont want an amp because of the space so what should i buy if Im going directly to the mixer with my pedal effects?   Thats the queation....
        Also,if i consider to buy an amp combo like the fender hot rod deluxe III, that is a tube amp and probably the one that im gonna buy soon, can I connect it to whichever d.i box and it will transmit the sound of it without producing sound through the speaker cab of it because they dont wanna hear any sound coming from the altar?


If it's really a tube amp, you'll need to run a load box to absorb the power that would normally be going to the speaker. You need to know, however, that virtually all load boxes change the sound of the amp in some way; it's a product of interrupting the circuit from the output transformer to the voice coil of the speaker, and that's part of what makes the overall sound. The other thing that will change the overall sound is the fact that you'll be running into speakers that are completely different from guitar speakers (which usually don't have much frequency response below 100Hz or above 4Khz,and which usually have a pronounced mids bump), so you DO want to have some kind of cabinet simulation going on. 

I have 15 tube amps, but when I work with a P&W group, it's almost always a gig that requires running direct into the board. I've used an HD500X for a while, and now a Helix. I've never had anyone complain about the sound of the guitar. My playing? Different story. But the guitar sound is just peachy. 
#14
Quote by Bob Sherwood
I also lead P&W so i don't like a boom stand in front of me so I use a wireless headset as well as wireless system on guitar.  I have total freedom of movement.  I have the expensive Shure wirelsss guitar system but prefer the Line 6 G10 system.

I don't think you'll like the G10 system quite as much when you move away from the group a bit. I'm using the older Line 6 G90, and it's got good range and great clarity. I think my favorite setup is one of the Lectrasonics, but that's a unit that requires a serious budget. 

Are you running BOTH guitar and vocal mike on the same wireless unit? Which one might that be? Or are you carrying two separate packs? Are you running an IEM as well?   

My current dream rig would be to be able to run my Variax guitars wireless. Well, you can, of course, if you're just using the quarter-inch jack, but if you have a VDI cable running between the Variax and a Line 6 compatible product (HD500, Helix, etc.), the VDI cable carries magnetic pickup and Variax electronics information separately, the Helix provides power to the guitar, and you can put guitar model, alternate tunings in a user preset along with amps/cabs/FX and change everything in one stomp. I think that requires quite a few channels, and Line 6, if anyone, can put something together, but they haven't yet. 
#15
I like the Line 6 over the Shure because the transmiter plugs directly into the guitar.
#16
A man with an argument is never at the mercy of a man with an experience.  The fly rig has a sans amp included which serves and the pre amp...speaker/amp emulator.  I've been using this for two years with great success.  My headset does have a body pack which transmits to the receiver in the sound booth.  The g10 line six plugs directly into the guitar with no body pack.  They advertise a range of 50 feet.  I am never more than 20 feet away from the receiver which is on my pedal board so the distance is not an issue.  If I ever have to be more that 50 feet away I would use the Shure.  
#17
Quote by Bob Sherwood
I like the Line 6 over the Shure because the transmiter plugs directly into the guitar.

Understood. 

It seems to me that they (wireless manufacturers)  should be able to make all packs a LOT smaller, you know? But I think it's cheaper for them to continue to use garage door technology rather than to redesign. I have a feeling that Line 6 is jogging hard in that direction, but keeping it a bit under wraps*. They certainly have the technology, but I think the fact that this is a low-volume product has been delaying it as a priority. When they drop it at a NAMM, it will force Shure and Sennheiser and Lectrasonics to get off their butts and follow suit.

*Line 6 got its name from that secrecy. The company was originally founded by keyboard engineers who began doing project work for other manufacturers and who wanted to keep the other things they were working on secret. There were only five lines in their phone system, so when folks from the "other manufacturers" paid the company a visit to check on their projects, the receptionist would announce over the intercom that there was a "call for Mister So and So on Line 6." That alerted everyone to stash or cover up the secret project stuff until those people left the building. That secret project got the nickname, "The Line 6 stuff" and that became the new company's name. 
Last edited by dspellman at Apr 26, 2017,
#18
Tech21 sansamp GT2 (Fender/Marshall/high gain amp) or Tech21 para driver & DI pedal.. are good option - http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/gt2.html
I have Washburn guitars 'Maverick Series' and bass 'Bantam Series' and a few pedals and amps, but man I wish to have more patience and drive practicing my playing, if it's equal to the modding itch, then I'm golden.
#19
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't something like a Boss Micro-BR, Korg Pandora or Line 6 POD also work for the OP's needs?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#20
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't something like a Boss Micro-BR, Korg Pandora or Line 6 POD also work for the OP's needs?

You are correct, sir.