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#1
is it their fault when things go bad, even if the state has been manipulating them, or if they are ignorant or generally unintelligent?

Does the public deserve to not be able to afford to survive because they as a majority either voted for or apathetically enabled the ruling party to dismantle the NHS?

Do they deserve to have their freedom violated because they didn't assemble against the state when it started to restrict it?

Asking for a friend/because I'm bored
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
Last edited by Banjocal at May 10, 2017,
#2
nah

edit: well sorta. idk. i tend to lean towards a sense of pity for idiots rather than blame. what about the people that didn't vote for terrible policy? are they to blame as well for not revolting or some shit?

i kinda feel like they are responsible (reasonable people), whereas the people that vote for shit are just idiots

edit2: by idiots i mean misled people and by reasonable people i basically mean class conscious individuals so that's clear
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
Last edited by Burgery at May 10, 2017,
#3
Honestly the British public deserves all its gets as this point. They've been shitting on the people lower than themselves for years so let's see the middle classes finally feel some pain.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#4
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Honestly the British public deserves all its gets as this point. They've been shitting on the people lower than themselves for years so let's see the middle classes finally feel some pain.

So, you want to feel the pain then?
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#5
Quote by slapsymcdougal
So, you want to feel the pain then?


I'm paying half my wage straight into rent in a tiny house share. I'm hardly middle class.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#6
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'm paying half my wage straight into rent in a tiny house share. I'm hardly middle class.

What else would you call a professional with shares in the family farm?
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#7
bourgeois pig tbh
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
#8
Quote by slapsymcdougal
What else would you call a professional with shares in the family farm?


Culturally middle class, yes, not economically middle class. The two things are different in the UK.

The shares amount to an annual dividend once a year of around £600 and go straight into my savings. That's a nice little windfall but it's not going to propel me into a middle class lifestyle all of a sudden.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#9
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Culturally middle class, yes, not economically middle class. The two things are different in the UK.

The shares amount to an annual dividend once a year of around £600 and go straight into my savings. That's a nice little windfall but it's not going to propel me into a middle class lifestyle all of a sudden.

Still kind of skirts around the point.

How is that going to prevent you from feeling the pain you're wishing on your parents?
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#10
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Still kind of skirts around the point.

How is that going to prevent you from feeling the pain you're wishing on your parents?


I'm completely independent from my parents. Anything happens to them won't affect me financially, in the current situation.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#11
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'm completely independent from my parents.  Anything happens to them won't affect me financially, in the current situation.

Not really talking about financially.

I mean, you're talking as though - for example - privatisation of the NHS won't affect you. Only the middle class. Somehow. Even though they're the ones with the jobs that probably already have private health insurance to some extent.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#12
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Not really talking about financially.

I mean, you're talking as though - for example - privatisation of the NHS won't affect you. Only the middle class. Somehow. Even though they're the ones with the jobs that probably already have private health insurance to some extent.


For most of my teens and early 20s I lived in a little middle class town that always voted for the conservatives. It was the typical place where everything was comfortable and people reaped the benefits of British society with none of the drawbacks. Most people would use the NHS, be kept safe by the local police station, use local polish labour to get good quality work done etc. All this happened at the expense of other parts of country being down the shitter, because we are so close to London.

Now the local hospital is on thin ice, the local police station is closed and going to be turned into luxury flats, and a lot of the things people are taking for granted down there are probably going to go away. I'm just saying it'd be nice to see those people suffer a bit for once instead of it all being on the working class. They're suffering anyway.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#13
Quote by EndTheRapture51
For most of my teens and early 20s I lived in a little middle class town that always voted for the conservatives. It was the typical place where everything was comfortable and people reaped the benefits of British society with none of the drawbacks. Most people would use the NHS, be kept safe by the local police station, use local polish labour to get good quality work done etc. All this happened at the expense of other parts of country being down the shitter, because we are so close to London.

Now the local hospital is on thin ice, the local police station is closed and going to be turned into luxury flats, and a lot of the things people are taking for granted down there are probably going to go away. I'm just saying it'd be nice to see those people suffer a bit for once instead of it all being on the working class. They're suffering anyway.

So the solution is more suffering.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#14
Quote by slapsymcdougal
So the solution is more suffering.


Go back and read my first post. I'm not proposing any sort of solution. I just think it's appropriate that the retards who voted for Brexit and the Tories should finally feel some negative repercussions for their democratic decisions.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#15
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Culturally middle class, yes, not economically middle class. The two things are different in the UK.
nobody else goes around making distinctions like this, you're obviously middle class whether you hate yourself for it or not
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#17
Quote by EndTheRapture51
we know you like the bbc article that says you're not middle class but... you're middle class my dude
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#18
Quote by K33nbl4d3
we know you like the bbc article that says you're not middle class but... you're middle class my dude


I literally said that in my post...can you read?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#19
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I literally said that in my post...can you read?
damn you got me

I'm blind so i was just guessing that your post was you drawing an irrelevant and arbitrary distinction to disassociate yourself from your obvious entirely middle class identity
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#20
Quote by K33nbl4d3
damn you got me

I'm blind so i was just guessing that your post was you drawing an irrelevant and arbitrary distinction to disassociate yourself from your obvious entirely middle class identity


You can have a working class income with a middle class background and upbringing.

Ain't that fucking hard to understand, and even the BBC recognises it as a distinct and numerous group. You're just being an idiot.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#21
Quote by EndTheRapture51
You can have a working class income with a middle class background and upbringing.

Ain't that fucking hard to understand, and even the BBC recognises it as a distinct and numerous group. You're just being an idiot.
this is good stuff, I'm have to remember that calling you middle class sets you off
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#22
Quote by K33nbl4d3
this is good stuff, I'm have to remember that calling you middle class sets you off


I've have never denied it? I am simply not on a middle class wage. Not a challenging concept

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#23
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Go back and read my first post. I'm not proposing any sort of solution. I just think it's appropriate that the retards who voted for Brexit and the Tories should finally feel some negative repercussions for their democratic decisions.

I doubt there will be many, tbh.

Closing local hospitals and relocating specialist services tends to improve treatment, and the police station is not what made the people there safe anyway. I really doubt closing it would lead to a significant increase in crime.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#24
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'm hardly middle class.
today just isn't your day is it?
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#25
Quote by K33nbl4d3
today just isn't your day is it?


if we're going to do petty quote mining...

Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'm paying half my wage straight into rent in a tiny house share. I'm hardly middle class.

Culturally middle class, yes, not economically middle class. The two things are different in the UK.


Quote by slapsymcdougal
I doubt there will be many, tbh.

Closing local hospitals and relocating specialist services tends to improve treatment, and the police station is not what made the people there safe anyway. I really doubt closing it would lead to a significant increase in crime.


People will complain if services decrease in quality, waiting times increase, or if they have to drive 20 minutes to the nearest hospital.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#26
Quote by EndTheRapture51
if we're going to do petty quote mining...


People will complain if services decrease in quality, waiting times increase, or if they have to drive 20 minutes to the nearest hospital.

Won't happen.

Seriously, they may complain, but their lives will not be adversely affected by these things.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#27
Quote by EndTheRapture51
if we're going to do petty quote mining...
i already quoted that one, though

i can quote you what i said again if you want?
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#28
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Won't happen.

Seriously, they may complain, but their lives will not be adversely affected by these things.


As they and their parents grow older, they will be.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#29
Quote by EndTheRapture51
As they and their parents grow older, they will be.

No, the closure of a shitty local hospital and police station won't decrease quality of care or waiting times, or lead to a sudden increase in marauding Vikings.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#30
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, the closure of a shitty local hospital and police station won't decrease quality of care or waiting times, or lead to a sudden increase in marauding Vikings.


I don't understand where you are coming from on this matter, sorry.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#31
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I don't understand where you are coming from on this matter, sorry.

It's pretty straightforward.

Local hospital closures rarely decrease the quality of a service; they just move it.

Closing rural and semi-rural police stations does not lead to sudden upticks in violent crime, burglaries and so forth, because the police station itself was not actually preventing them in the first place.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#32
Quote by slapsymcdougal
It's pretty straightforward.

Local hospital closures rarely decrease the quality of a service; they just move it.

Closing rural and semi-rural police stations does not lead to sudden upticks in violent crime, burglaries and so forth, because the police station itself was not actually preventing them in the first place.


I understand your point about police stations but am confused about hospitals. I don't think a hospital closure is likely to happen, more likely long term erosion of the service, but crime isn't the same as illness. Closing a popular hospital will just move the ill people to another hospital and put extra strain on that hospital, increases waiting times, decreasing bed space etc. etc., right? Or wrong?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#33
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I understand your point about police stations but am confused about hospitals. I don't think a hospital closure is likely to happen, more likely long term erosion of the service, but crime isn't the same as illness. Closing a popular hospital will just move the ill people to another hospital and put extra strain on that hospital, increases waiting times, decreasing bed space etc. etc., right? Or wrong?

It depends.

I mean, my local (370 bed) hospital closed to inpatients quite recently, but it's inpatient services were moved to a new site, and outpatient services to an ambulatory care facility nearby. So, it's moved inpatient care significantly away(it'd probably take me an extra hour by public transport now, because I'd essentially have to dog-leg the route), but it's no longer in a dilapidated Victorian shithole. 

The same thing happened with 2 other hospitals in Glasgow(OK, they're not as old, but they were every bit as shithole-y and dilapidated), and the children's hospital moved to this site as well.

As far as patient outcomes goes, this kind of centralisation can improve things significantly. As much as anything else, you often have access to more specialties on-site, which makes the coordination of complex care simpler.

But if you are just closing a hospital and going "alea iacta est" and waiting to see what happens, then yea, that is fucked up.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#34
Quote by slapsymcdougal
It depends.

I mean, my local (370 bed) hospital closed to inpatients quite recently, but it's inpatient services were moved to a new site, and outpatient services to an ambulatory care facility nearby. So, it's moved inpatient care significantly away(it'd probably take me an extra hour by public transport now, because I'd essentially have to dog-leg the route), but it's no longer in a dilapidated Victorian shithole. 

The same thing happened with 2 other hospitals in Glasgow(OK, they're not as old, but they were every bit as shithole-y and dilapidated), and the children's hospital moved to this site as well.

As far as patient outcomes goes, this kind of centralisation can improve things significantly. As much as anything else, you often have access to more specialties on-site, which makes the coordination of complex care simpler.

But if you are just closing a hospital and going "alea iacta est" and waiting to see what happens, then yea, that is fucked up.


In the area I'm talking about there used to be basically a care home type thing for people who's conditions weren't so bad that they needed to be in the hospital but they still needed some sort of care short to medium term. My grandad was in that place whilst he was on his last legs and going in and out of hospital as he worsened and recovered and eventually passed.

However now that place has been shut down due to funding cuts. That's a whole load of beds that will now either be taken up in the hospital, or decrease patient quality of life or risk of being readmitted because they can't get the correct level of care at home, in my understanding.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#35
Quote by slapsymcdougal
"alea iacta est"


freakin' nerd
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#36
Quote by Banjocal
is it their fault when things go bad, even if the state has been manipulating them, or if they are ignorant or generally unintelligent?

Does the public deserve to not be able to afford to survive because they as a majority either voted for or apathetically enabled the ruling party to dismantle the NHS?

Do they deserve to have their freedom violated because they didn't assemble against the state when it started to restrict it?

Asking for a friend/because I'm bored

Lets simplify it, If people are too stupid to stop sticking their hand in the fire, or expect someone else to stop them, can they be blamed for their burnt hand?
I say unless they are mentally deficient, retarded, whatever the appropriate word is these days, yes.

In other words barring any organic/genetic brain damage then yes they can be blamed, because it is still possible for them to learn.
This is what happens when you want others to do things you should be looking after, so you can be blamed and so can they for taking advantage.

You had another factor there, and that is a group willing to take advantage of ignorance.
That is one of the most despicable behaviors there is IMO, there should be a very harsh punishment for anyone in power over others willing to do this sort of thing.
#37
Quote by EpiExplorer
freakin' nerd

*laugh* I like how he kind of threw it in there under the radar though.
#38
Does this have anything to do with the UG Forum Mod elections of 2016?
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#39
My favorite bumper sticker says, "In an age of information, ignorance is a choice." We all have everything we need to make informed decisions. Being uninformed or misinformed (as adults) is almost always the result of our own choices. We are responsible for our votes.
Death to Ovation haters!
#40
Quote by PatchworkMan
My favorite bumper sticker says, "In an age of information, ignorance is a choice." We all have everything we need to make informed decisions. Being uninformed or misinformed (as adults) is almost always the result of our own choices. We are responsible for our votes.

For a given value of informed, maybe.

I mean, if 2 equally reputable economists are making opposing predictions regarding potential results of an election, are you really in a position to determine which - if either is - correct?
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
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