#1
Greetings. 

In the past month I have been learning guitar the right way. I got my practice routine which I do every day, then jam a bit, write some of my own stuff and my target is to eventually learn to play the lead guitar of Necrophagist's Stabwound. ( A long way to go, but a man gotta have his goals.) 

My every day play routine

Practise: 3 Mins Down/alternate picking with metronome. 1-2-3-4 across all frets and strings, scales(Pentatonic, Blues, Natural Minor.)  across different positions every day and a spider technique. 

Jam: Rhythm metal, some "Solo" improvisation, writing my own stuff and looking for new songs to learn. 

Now, based on that, what should I add in my routine to play Necrophagist's-Stabwound eventually?  How long do you assume it will take  if I practice every day? 

Cheers. 
#2
Quote by roguecrab
Greetings. 

In the past month I have been learning guitar the right way. I got my practice routine which I do every day, then jam a bit, write some of my own stuff and my target is to eventually learn to play the lead guitar of Necrophagist's Stabwound. ( A long way to go, but a man gotta have his goals.) 

My every day play routine

Practise: 3 Mins Down/alternate picking with metronome. 1-2-3-4 across all frets and strings, scales(Pentatonic, Blues, Natural Minor.)  across different positions every day and a spider technique. 

Jam: Rhythm metal, some "Solo" improvisation, writing my own stuff and looking for new songs to learn. 

Now, based on that, what should I add in my routine to play Necrophagist's-Stabwound eventually?  How long do you assume it will take  if I practice every day? 

Cheers. 

With 3 minutes of practice, it'll take you forever.

Ditch jamming daily. Once a week, maybe. Practice more. Focus on the song. Take a riff, play it perfectly at half speed, then start getting faster, until you can play it with flawless articulation at full speed(or better).
#3
Thread was moved to forum: Musician Talk
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#4
First of all, you need to ditch the jam. 'Jamming' is for fun, not for practice, so you need to decide which one you're doing early on.

Your exercises, add the major scale into your exercises, you could do with getting rid of the pentatonic and the blues scales, for what you want to do, they're pretty pointless. Add some sweep picking exercises, learn the major and minor arpeggios in their three string, five string and six string variations. You need to be looking at two handed tapping (look into tapping arpeggios, and incorporating your right hand into your scale exercises, Kirk Hammett tapping isn't gonna cut it), as well as legato.

Last, but definitely not least, you need to add Stabwound into your practice routine. Really slow it down, look at every technique, every phrase and break it down, only getting faster when you get it perfect. 
#5
there is only one thing you can do. play at 25% speed. then move up to 40% or 50% once you have that down. then to 60% or 70% speed....keep practicing until you reach 100% speed. 
#6
Keep your goals flexible; every guitarist has started out with certain music preferences only to discover that these change, often a lot!
It is more than likely that by the time you were capable of playing "Stabwound", you would long have left off ever wanting to do so, and were enjoying playing jazz, or bluegrass, or who knows what... Just don't burn any stylistic bridges on you path to major chopdom.  
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#7
Quote by CelestialGuitar
First of all, you need to ditch the jam. 'Jamming' is for fun, not for practice


Disagree. Jamming is an essential way to learn improvisation and actually incorporate technical ideas in musical context. Practicing scales ad nauseum will never teach you how to improvise the way actually playing over a backing track or something would.
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#8
Quote by theogonia777
Disagree.  Jamming is an essential way to learn improvisation and actually incorporate technical ideas in musical context.  Practicing scales ad nauseum will never teach you how to improvise the way actually playing over a backing track or something would.

Equally, I'm a classically trained musician, I'm in a band that's getting somewhere in the same vein as Necrophagist in that it's ultra tight and polished to the utmost degree, I'm also a professional musician in my own right, I have never had to improvise over a backing, I've never been expected to in my field of work, and it definitely hasn't harmed my playing in any way as I've been able to focus on improving my technique so I can play the pieces I compose. Jamming is essential to improvisation, but in today's world, especially when you're trying to learn what the OP is, improvisation isn't essential.
#9
Quote by CelestialGuitar
Equally, I'm a classically trained musician, I'm in a band that's getting somewhere in the same vein as Necrophagist in that it's ultra tight and polished to the utmost degree


lol

I'm also a professional musician in my own right


Wow. You must be the only one here!

I have never had to improvise over a backing, I've never been expected to in my field of work, and it definitely hasn't harmed my playing in any way as I've been able to focus on improving my technique so I can play the pieces I compose. Jamming is essential to improvisation, but in today's world, especially when you're trying to learn what the OP is, improvisation isn't essential.


A life without jam sessions as a social activity seems pretty sad. And how do you play with other musicians that you don't know if you don't learn to improvise? Like if you meet a famous person like Eric Johnson or Steven Seagal or Brent Mason and he wants to jam on Folsom Prison Blues or something with you but you have never jammed on a 12 bar blues before so you miss out on that opportunity? You'll never have a good time in life that way. I feel bad for you and it's no wonder why you are such a dreadfully boring person and unable to think outside the box. You listened to much to the music teachers and not enough to the music and look where you are now? Truly sad. Truly sad, indeed.
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#10
Quote by theogonia777
lol


Wow.  You must be the only one here!


A life without jam sessions as a social activity seems pretty sad.  And how do you play with other musicians that you don't know if you don't learn to improvise?  Like if you meet a famous person like Eric Johnson or Steven Seagal or Brent Mason and he wants to jam on Folsom Prison Blues or something with you but you have never jammed on a 12 bar blues before so you miss out on that opportunity?  You'll never have a good time in life that way.  I feel bad for you and it's no wonder why you are such a dreadfully boring person and unable to think outside the box.  You listened to much to the music teachers and not enough to the music and look where you are now?  Truly sad.  Truly sad, indeed.


Yes, I'm not the only professional musician here, no doubt about that, no need for the hostilities. Absolutely ridiculous.
#11
Quote by CelestialGuitar
I'm a classically trained musician, I'm in a band that's getting somewhere in the same vein as Necrophagist...

I can't even...
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#12
Quote by CelestialGuitar
I'm in a band that's getting somewhere in the same vein as Necrophagist



#13
i mean, he's not wrong. improvisation really doesn't help you in the real world and it's a bad habit to treat it as the same as other activities in your practice schedule

although, personally, i don't think i've used a practice schedule in the last, like, 6 years. all that timed "x many minutes of this" exercise stuff was nice at the very early stages of learning techniques, but what really hammered in my understanding of them was creating etudes and learning music that utilized them in context

all your "exercises" should be in a musical context if possible, TS. i think that you're trying to structure your practice schedule in such a way as to learn techniques and slowly chip at this song on the side until you have the chops to play it. like some others in this thread have said, you should approach it totally in reverse - ram yourself into brick wall after brick wall trying to get this song down super slow and speed it up slowly as you go.

beyond that, don't use a tab outside of checking your own work when necessary. put the song in Transcribe!, slow it as far down as you can, and figure it out, one note at a time. it sucks. it's gonna be boring. it's gonna be frustrating. you're gonna hate the song by the time you learn it. but you'll get so much more mileage out of your practice with this approach.

especially when you grow out of your metal phase
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#14
Quote by theogonia777
Disagree. Jamming is an essential way to learn improvisation and actually incorporate technical ideas in musical context. Practicing scales ad nauseum will never teach you how to improvise the way actually playing over a backing track or something would.


Not only that, it's essential to keeping morale up when first learning. Retention in any instrument is problematic because people don't choose to play guitar because they want to have all the scales learned. It's important to work hard AND have some kind of break in between so that you're not associating guitar playing as some lifeless exercise. Militant practice of that degree is really only a necessity to those striving to master the instrument. Most people don't mind falling above the line of proficient.
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#15
Quote by PlusPaul
I can't even...


You can't even what? I don't even agree with CG completely since jamming is fun and beneficial, but he is a classically trained musician, and he's in a metal band. So I don't even know what you're trying to imply.

That being said, jamming indeed isn't essential to learning Stabwound in particular. I'd recommend TS to learn easier DM and TDM songs first, and work his way up to Necrophagist that way. So start by learnin stuff like Death etc. first before you tackle the really technical stuff like Necrophagist.
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#16
improvisation really doesn't help you in the real world/QUOTE]

Sure it does. Some people play music like jazz and blues that is based heavily around improvisation (you should try a session night at a local Irish pub if you really want a good time). Improvisation is also highly important for doing session work. It's not always going to be some old guy producer handing you a page of sheet music and telling you to play it. Sometimes they just play the track and tell you to just go with it. And if you can't improvise, then that's a session gig lost.
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#17
Quote by Hail
improvisation really doesn't help you in the real world/QUOTE]

Sure it does.  Some people play music like jazz and blues that is based heavily around improvisation (you should try a session night at a local Irish pub if you really want a good time).  Improvisation is also highly important for doing session work.  It's not always going to be some old guy producer handing you a page of sheet music and telling you to play it.  Sometimes they just play the track and tell you to just go with it.  And if you can't improvise, then that's a session gig lost.

Equally, some people like to play Technical Death Metal, like the OP does. If you're implying I said 'durr even bl00z and jaazz guitarist write they own stuff hours in advance improvisation is 3bade', then you're just fighting a strawman. Improvisation is key to those genres, yes, however, I do not play jazz, nor do I play blues, nor do I take session gigs were improvisation is required, I'm a composer through and through, and that translates very well to genres that are highly composed/produced and set in stone, like Technical Death Metal, Power Metal, Symphonic Metal and even modern pop, Post Hardcore and Alternative. This thread is about how to get to a point where you can play Stabwound, and there's no argument that if that's your goal, you need to be drilling technique hard.
#18
If you really want to learn stuff like Necrophagist, go a step down and practice/learn songs of similar styles first. Try songs from the various styles of Death Metal (especially Tech-Death but Melodic Death Metal like In Flames can't hurt either) and maybe Progressive Metal songs. Practice your picking as well and brush up on your theory. With fast and complex music, it can help to digitally slow it down. I also recommend training your ears and making your own tabs (it really helps with the ear training and to have a good reference to the songs). One day you'll be able to play Necrophagist songs correctly. 

I don't know how this became a debate on Improvisation and jamming but let's try to get back on topic. Improvisation/Jamming isn't really needed in styles like Tech-Death but it's good for coming up with riffs and parts ...
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#19
Quote by RonaldPoe
If you really want to learn stuff like Necrophagist, go a step down and practice/learn songs of similar styles first. Try songs from the various styles of Death Metal (especially Tech-Death but Melodic Death Metal like In Flames can't hurt either) and maybe Progressive Metal songs. Practice your picking as well and brush up on your theory. With fast and complex music, it can help to digitally slow it down. I also recommend training your ears and making your own tabs (it really helps with the ear training and to have a good reference to the songs). One day you'll be able to play Necrophagist songs correctly. 

I don't know how this became a debate on Improvisation and jamming but let's try to get back on topic. Improvisation/Jamming isn't really needed in styles like Tech-Death but it's good for coming up with riffs and parts ...

I agree with this. Make sure to have interrim goals - preferably songs rather than techniques, since playing a song probably gives a greater sense of achievement. Otherwise it will feel like a very long way to go.
#20
That got off topic fast. He asked what he can do to improve his technical skill in order to play a very specific song, not what he can do to make him a more creative musician in terms of improv and writing.

Really the best thing to do to get up to speed is play at least a few parts of the song, but slow it down a lot. If theres any guitar pro tabs for this song you can lower the speed within guitar pro and play with the tab at any speed. If this band has some more songs that you like and you know will have easier parts to play then maybe learn them before you tackle this one.

It may take months or years, but you will notice improvement in speed with dedication. I tried learning scarified by Paul Gilbert years ago, but never got the speed up 100%, but before I did manage to play it fully i lost interest and found new music anyway, but i was getting better over time. Likewise for you, the thing to do first is learn the notes and the patterns, then work on speed.
Last edited by GuitarHawk99 at Jun 1, 2017,
#21
^ Tbf, he did mention jamming as part of his routine. However, if the goal is to play a specific song, jamming isn't going to serve any purpose in that regard except to prolong warm-ups.

Otherwise, agreed. How are you going to play the song if you're not even touching it? Slow down and make sure you can execute the parts at a constant tempo, then slowly (in 1-2 BPM increments) build up to tempo.
#22
If you only want to learn one song as a guitarist some people have given you some good advice in this thread. If you actually want to learn the guitar keep jamming for hours. You may learn techniques along the way that help you learn the song. You may learn that you love a certain style of music through the guitar. Or, god forbid, you may actually learn how to play the guitar with others. 


Cant have that with the nerdy metal heads who know how to play 10 stupid difficult songs but when you ask em to jam in A you get a blank look or a solo that they already know.
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#23
Quote by Zigler9
If you only want to learn one song as a guitarist some people have given you some good advice in this thread. If you actually want to learn the guitar keep jamming for hours. You may learn techniques along the way that help you learn the song. You may learn that you love a certain style of music through the guitar. Or, god forbid, you may actually learn how to play the guitar with others. 


Cant have that with the nerdy metal heads who know how to play 10 stupid difficult songs but when you ask em to jam in A you get a blank look or a solo that they already know.


can't learn to analyze music if you don't know any music

keep in mind we're music theory people here. you learn music by frame of reference, which comes from experiencing the methodologies of other songwriters rather than locking yourself in an echo chamber where you subconsciously play the same licks over and over again without realizing that's all you know how to do

i think jamming is a given. everybody does it. but there's no focus to that. it's the difference between writing in your journal and writing an essay for class. both are significant towards developing literacy, but one is regimented and designed to push you, while the other is just meddling in your comfort zone
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Last edited by Hail at Jun 4, 2017,
#24
Don't ditch jamming. If you've played guitar for ~1 month, learning Necrophagist is long term goal, not short term. You need a lot of easier goals before that. Keep practicing and you'll be able to play the song in 3 years. 
#25
Quote by ChasenPipo
Don't ditch jamming. If you've played guitar for ~1 month, learning Necrophagist is long term goal, not short term. You need a lot of easier goals before that. Keep practicing and you'll be able to play the song in 3 years. 


if he slows it down, learns it by ear, and goes slow, instead of looking at a tab and giving up, i think he can do it in a few months, at least really slowly. it's not that hard of a song, honestly, especially if he just learns the rhythm sections.

aiming for the stars is how you progress. the actual goal isn't to learn a necrophagist song, it's to learn the techniques they use and moves they make subconsciously by constantly exposing yourself to the music and breaking it down slowly and methodically. by the time you can proficiently play a track like this, you'll basically have a big catalog of in-context exercises for sweep picking, alt picking, etc.

then the next song will come faster, and faster, until you can learn simple songs by ear on the first or second listen.

it's frustrating, it seems counterintuitive, you won't get immediate results, but if i were to start from scratch again, that's exactly the approach i'd take. i guarantee i'd get to where i needed to be much faster and would feel significantly more satisfied with my progress.

otherwise, you do what most of us do, and one day you pick up the guitar and feel like you can't do anything right, because we meddled around with stuff but never fully invested everything into learning something beyond our limits. i remember the first song i really broke down and did that to was sequoia throne by protest the hero, like 7 or 8 years ago. since i put in that work, though, i could probably figure it out in like 30 minutes even though i haven't played guitar in like 4 years.
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#26
theogonia777 how is he the one not able to think outside of the box, when you are the one who cant imagine having fun in a way that's different from yours?
#27
First of all, I'd like to say I've ready all of your replies. And I appreciate them.  What I should have mentioned is what Hail  said. Stabwound is a long term goal. I want to learn to play guitar in general. I thought of approaching the techniques of the song first, and then use them to play it. Apparently I was wrong, so I've been doing both. Learning the song slowly, and mastering the techniques in the meantime. 

As for jamming. Jamming is not really a practice routine per say, but more of a routine in general. I enjoy playing, jamming and improvising and I'll keep doing that simply because it's fun. It's even more fun when I apply the techniques I learn on my "sessions". 

Other than that, I started sweep picking, which is going shit, but I will improve. Some time. 
I've grasped the basics and moving to advanced two handed tapping. 
My scales have gotten a lot better, and so did my improvisation. 
And finally, I feel much more confident playing guitar now. 

Thank you everyone.