Who has had it worse in America: African Americans or Native Americans

Poll: Who has had it worse?
Poll Options
View poll results: Who has had it worse?
African Americans
5 23%
Native Americans
17 77%
Voters: 22.
Page 1 of 2
#1
America is the story of discrimination against two groups of people: black people and indians.

Which group of people got the rawest deal in American history?

“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#2
oh boy




#5
i would say native americans, because they are still going through tough shit today, especially with the recent protests 

african americans have the same rights as anyone else in the U.S today, and are completely assimilated as far as modern western culture is concerned

both went through slavery and such, but as a whole, native americans were never thought of as true equals, even during times where african americans held political positions in the early stages of the freedom laws 
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
There shall be a stop to this madness. The battle is not over. My tasty licks aren't going anywhere.

Quote by The_Blode
^ I've just realised if you say Simple Plan's 2011 effort "Get Your Heart On!" really fast in a Southern American accent, it sounds gross. . .like sexual gross!

Quote by Necroheadbanger
Hello.
I'm looking for professional bongo-ists and triangle-ists to make a Progressive Technical Brutal Death Metal band
(will be called AxOxJxLxAxIxVxXxUxWxZxQxUxRxWxGxJxSxAxLxKxMxNxHxUxGxAxAxWxVxCxBxZxVx)
(Don't even ask what it means)


https://soundcloud.com/95dank



#7
Is it worth playing this game? Every group took it in the ass at some point in history, these are just some of the last to hold the hot potato, so to speak. I don't think it's very good for anyone to compare wounds in this realm, just doesn't accomplish much.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
#8
this is a truly stupid thread
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#9
Quote by bradulator
America is the story of discrimination against two groups of people: black people and indians. 

Your poor students
#10
Quote by Rossenrot
Your poor students

Limited time, limited resources.

I mean, you can't start with the full fist, have to go for a couple of fingers first.
#11
Quote by Rossenrot
Your poor students


don't worry white people are third
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#12
Quote by Rossenrot
Your poor students

did you just assume their socioeconomic status?
Check out my band Disturbed
#13
me

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#14
yes
You are now using UG Black.
You are now using UG Classic.


Listening to: A bunch of forced listening by my composition teacher... some great stuff by Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Schubert, Liszt...


GTA V! ... the 120th game of the franchise.
#15
Quote by bradulator
America is the story of discrimination against two groups of people: black people and indians.

Which group of people got the rawest deal in American history?


The white man for having to listen to this crap for eternity.
#18
Quote by K33nbl4d3
this is a truly stupid thread

Is it worse than my Hung Fu thread?
#19
There are more sucessful, wealthy, famous African Americans in the U.S. than Native Americans, we still have not had a Native American POTUS so...
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#20
Or if you want to be brutal about it, African Americans as slaves had value, Indians were just "in the way".
#21
Quote by bradulator
America is the story of discrimination against two groups of people: black people and indians.


It's not. IOW, your premise is flawed. America is also the story of discrimination against spics, wops, micks, pollacks, germans, czechs, chinks, jappos and any other "not us" group of people, to include race, origin, religious belief systems, sexual preferences and virtually every other major or minor defining characteristic.

Most of the blame rests on Brits, French, Spanish and Germans who brought the colonial system and "manifest destiny" to America along with a deep-seated disrespect for anyone who wasn't them. And most of that blame belongs to the Catholic church that encouraged that thinking at the time and to Judeo-Christian values that really need to be re-thought.
#22
K33nbl4d3 This thread should be just about how stupid the premise is. Like what's worse, losing your left nut or your right one?
#23
Quote by dspellman
It's not. IOW, your premise is flawed. America is also the story of discrimination against spics, wops, micks, pollacks, germans, czechs, chinks, jappos and any other "not us" group of people, to include race, origin, religious belief systems, sexual preferences and virtually every other major or minor defining characteristic.

Most of the blame rests on Brits, French, Spanish and Germans who brought the colonial system and "manifest destiny" to America along with a deep-seated disrespect for anyone who wasn't them. And most of that blame belongs to the Catholic church that encouraged that thinking at the time and to Judeo-Christian values that really need to be re-thought.

jappos is my favorite
#24
Quote by dspellman
It's not. IOW, your premise is flawed. America is also the story of discrimination against spics, wops, micks, pollacks, germans, czechs, chinks, jappos and any other "not us" group of people, to include race, origin, religious belief systems, sexual preferences and virtually every other major or minor defining characteristic.

Most of the blame rests on Brits, French, Spanish and Germans who brought the colonial system and "manifest destiny" to America along with a deep-seated disrespect for anyone who wasn't them. And most of that blame belongs to the Catholic church that encouraged that thinking at the time and to Judeo-Christian values that really need to be re-thought.

The new narrative is how important, and how much a part of the creation of America Islam was.
#25
The point is not how it's worse - the point is it's bad period!
My Current Mains
- 1996 Fender Jag-Stang with EMG Pickups
- 1998 Fender Jaguar with Cool Rails
- 1982 Hondo Paul Dean II (DiMarzio Super II X2)
- 2010 "Fender" Jazzmaster (Home built)
- 2013 Squier VM Bass VI (stock)
#26
Quote by imgooley
K33nbl4d3 This thread should be just about how stupid the premise is. Like what's worse, losing your left nut or your right one?
The left one, no contest. That's not an absurd question at all.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
#27
Quote by seanlang01
The left one, no contest. That's not an absurd question at all.

I would give my left nut for the answer to that most pending question.
#29
Quote by 33db
The new narrative is how important, and how much a part of the creation of America Islam was.


It's a narrative, but the creation of America is an ongoing story of immigrants. It's never stopped.

There are more Latinos in the United States than there are Canadians in Canada. If they had their own state it would be the sixth largest. There are more Armenians in Glendale, CA than there are in Armenia. There are twice or three times as many Canadians overstaying their Visas in the United States than there are Mexicans (including Guatemalans, Colombians, Salvadorians, etc.) doing the same. Chinese wealth is rebuilding downtown LA (and San Francisco and other coastal cities) via the EB-5 visa program (each million dollars invested is required to produce 10 new jobs). Stand by, because Indians (from India) are expanding their use of the EB-5 and other visa programs as well, and have vast wealth to offer to produce new investments and new jobs in the US.

Islam is a religion, not a nationality. Trump's fear-mongering has targeted a religion and roiled the fear that the uneducated in the US have about Yet Another Not Us. He's trying to appear to stem the Yellow Peril (oh, sorry, that was the Chinese arriving to build the railroads a hundred fifty years ago, or the Japanese taking over the Orient seventy years ago, or the Commies taking over the world via VietNam fifty years ago... I've forgotten which) coming into the US. He's picked six of the, what, fifty or so? Islamic countries, and only the ones that he doesn't do business with. The Saudis, who have admitted (finally) that they financed Al Qaeda and the attack on the twin towers, are just fine, and get $115 Billion worth of military aid (it was an old program on hold during the Obama admin) and he'll hold a glowing globe with them and fail to acknowledge that the core of the Islamic religion is in Mecca and other sites in Saudi Arabia. But they're okay.

He's trading on fear. Tons of folks who are islamics have been at the forefront of advances in electronics, medicine and so much more. But he's targeting "radical Islamic Terrorism." Why that particular terrorism, I'm not sure, except that stupid people fear it. An even half of all terrorist activities in the United States have come from the extreme Right -- white supremicists, anti-government groups, etc., by actual count. And yet Trump cozies up to those folks. Most people in the US have no idea what an Islamic looks like; white rednecks have simply targeted anyone brown (ish). Anyone "not them."

Look, the creation of "America" involved a lot of people, but was led by slave owners from Virginia. They created the Electorial College so that no group of special interested folks (read: abolitionists who were already more than active in high-population northern cities) could take over democratic elections. In short, they wanted to have their population of slaves count as population, even if they didn't have a vote. Just as the Republicans are currently bum-rushing whatever legislation they can, good or bad, through the House and the Senate ("elections have consequences") while they have a majority, so also the Virginia founding fathers gerrymandered the constitution to favor themselves, particularly in the presidential election. That's why we've had democratic elections everywhere but for President and why we ONLY have an electoral college election for president. It was set up that way for slave owners. And it worked. You'll notice that something like eight out of the first ten presidents were from Virginia. Republicans love it, because it gives outsized political influence to a few small states that have low-income, low-education folks that they control, and in states where they could rig voter registration requirements that would eliminate specific chunks of voters (mostly non-republicans). Note that ONLY the Republicans, in recent years, have won electoral college elections where they could NOT win the democratic election.

In the US, the other fear is fear of losing your job. Fact is, we have a large number of jobs going wanting because 1. people aren't trained or skilled enough to do them, 2. people are unwilling to move to where the jobs are and 3. people aren't willing to accept wages that some industries want to pay.

Believe it or not, Chinese manufacturers are actually interested in moving jobs TO the US. In some industries, over the last decade, labor costs have risen up to 30% per year. One Chinese textile manufacturer noted that In the U.S., land, electricity and cotton are all much cheaper, so his production cost per ton of textiles is 25% cheaper. Chinese investors have noted that there are selling points for relocating to the US: better air, safer food, straightforward access to funding and a government that doesn't intervene.

The issue? Chinese investors note: "We face pressure in the U.S. because we cannot find skilled workers. Most of the people have not worked in this [field] before in their lives." There is a strong argument for a strong argument for investment in training and education for more China-based jobs to move to America. As one investor put it: "Education—tradesman education. You have to make sure that you have enough educational power in the States, more or less, to bring up this entire industry."

"Making coal great again," --bringing back coal jobs in the US isn't the answer and never was.

Immigration isn't the problem -- it's part of the solution, honestly. That and trade education and a willingness for people to go where the jobs are.
#31
dspellman
A couple of things.
First; the idea of Islam being an important factor in the creation of this country.

The article states that many of the imported slaves were Islamic, of course they didn't mention who was selling the slaves.
But the real motivation here is to legitimize the religion in this country, even raise a level above the previous narrative, nothing in the early documents suggest Islam was a factor in bringing forth the nation as we know it.

For me, religion is a very dangerous thing, like a loaded, fully automatic weapon in the hands of a child, I think how I feel about religion, and of the "religion of peace" in particular, is fairly well documented by now.
The insertion of a new narrative troubles me deeply, I suspect we will hear more of this idea in the near future.

Second; when did the Sauds ever admit to 9/11?

Lastly; I do not have a problem with legitimate immigration, that is people that go through the process to become citizens and have the intent of assimilating to a significant degree.

What I have seen is illegal immigration driving down wages, and creating micro countries within the US filled with people that have little intention of assimilating, and some that are frankly very hostile.
Illegals don't just "pick fruit" any longer, they are every where, even in high paying skilled labor.

This subject is very extensive in nature, not really fit for discussion on a forum IMO, there are too many factors and too many people waiting to derail or inject their own brand of stupidity and ideological differences.

The thing for me, I was raised overseas, never really felt like an American, and I had a terrible time fitting in here in the US after attending international schools in different countries.
I still don't really feel it's "my country", though I was born here, what bothers me is the manipulation I perceive, and the lack of cohesion in the people.

So it is a strange thing that I feel protective of something that I do not belong too, and which is mostly a myth.
#32
both experience major problems that can't necessarily be shared with each other

native american suicide rates are off the fucking charts
black incarceration rates are off the fucking charts

pick your poison
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#33
Quote by ImNeverSalty
shitposting at its finest 

You haven't read my "kung fu master pulls military helicopter with genitals" thread yet I take it.
#34
Quote by Baby Joel
both experience major problems that can't necessarily be shared with each other

native american suicide rates are off the fucking charts
black incarceration rates are off the fucking charts

pick your poison

Suicide is a choice, the incarceration of blacks was disproportionate and heavy handed.

A Tale; I went down to Gulf Port Mississippi with a very hot looking woman whom I was "dating", she had a court date, caught with 1/2 gram of meth on her while driving drunk.
While waiting in the court room a black man was brought out, he had been caught with a joint.... yes a single joint of weed, it was the second time he had been caught with a small amount of marijuana.
He got 7 years.

The hot white girl I was with got probation, served in California, not Gulf Port.

I couldn't believe it.
#35
Quote by 33db
Suicide is a choice,
stopped reading here lol

bye
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#37
The worst deal in the entire nation is listening to fucking idiots who (1) see all of humanity in terms of the group they belong to instead of as individuals, and (2) obsess over events that happened centuries before they were born. 

Some facts:

Individual Native American nations fought among themselves over land and power just as much as all of the European nations. When the first English settlers arrived in what is now Massachusetts, one group of Native nations enlisted them as allies to wage war against a different Native nation. The Spanish only beat the Aztecs because they formed a coalition of all the Native nations the Aztecs had defeated, and that coalition defeated the Aztecs. 

Africans were enslaved by other Africans, and sold to Arabs, who then sold them to Europeans. There's enough blame to go around for the fate of those Africans who ended up slaves among ALL the people involved. But the one group of people responsible for the capture and transport of slaves that are the most responsible are the African tribal chiefs. Without them, there's no way that the Europeans could have captured any slaves. 

The main cause of death of Native Americans, from all nations, was contagious diseases. At the time, no one on the face of the earth had a clue about how diseases were transmitted. To the few in here who can actually read entire books, I suggest you read the book 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus, by Charles C. Mann.  

I don't give a flying fuck what some people in my great-great-great grandfather's generation did you your great-great-great grandfather's generation. I never owned any slaves, and you were never forced to pick cotton. 
#38
Quote by 33db
You haven't read my "kung fu master pulls military helicopter with genitals" thread yet I take it.

I didn't bother because of the thread title but since you mentioned it I'll take a look. 
#39
Quote by 33db
The new narrative is how important, and how much a part of the creation of America Islam was.

It wasn't important at all. The Arab slave traders used it as their excuse for trading in Negros, but they'd have found another excuse if Islam wasn't available. The Africans imported as slaves might have been forcible converted to Islam under a choice of, "Accept Allah or we'll cut your head off". The vast majority of slaves brought over from Africa, if they still believe in any religion have crossing the Atlantic, followed the religions of their tribes. 

The only other significant contribution made to the formation of the United States was to give President Jefferson an enemy to fight in America's first foreign war, the Barbary Pirates. 
#40
Quote by Evilnine
There are more sucessful, wealthy, famous African Americans in the U.S. than Native Americans, we still have not had a Native American POTUS so...

We've also never had an African AMERICAN president. We had a mulatto who was born in Kenya. 
Page 1 of 2