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#1
So I had Kiesel build me a custom Aries 7. I used one of their own promo shots as a reference for the color I wanted. They told me it was an aqua caliburst with a black burst on the outside.

Now, I can't figure out how to post a picture in this thread, it says that it's the wrong format. So hopefully someone can help me if you guys wanna see pictures.

Nevertheless, the guitar from the reference picture is a natural/yellow color in the middle, transitions into a thin green then transitions into an aqua then the black burst.

The guitar I got is light blue in the middle and gets gets darker blue as it works its way out. There's no black burst.

Now they did refund me the cost of the black burst because they said its either not there or done soo poorly that they couldn't tell if it was even there. But they won't rebuild/refund because they claim that the reason they are a different color is because I went with a lower quality poplar burl top than the one from the reference photo.

But a few days later I found that same finish on another guitar that was swamp ash (back) and the yellows and greens were there.

I made post in their Kiesel Facebook group page with pics, got over 900 comments, 95% of them people saying the guitars were wildly different colors and that Kiesel should make it right.

This is a really long story and I'll check back a couple times a day to answer questions about details and I presume you guys will wanna see pics, hopefully I can get that figured out.
#3
Try a photobucket or imjur account, and post photos from it.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#4
If you can, open the posted image in a new tab, copy the url, and paste it between the image brackets. I upload all my photos to Facebook and do that.

I really want to see this so I can declare with certainty how they did you wrong. Cause thats messed up.
Last edited by Liaztraht at May 31, 2017,
#5
If they already admitted that it's not right, it falls to them to make it right or refund you, to your satisfaction. Unless they told you ahead of time that the top wood you chose was going to mess with the finish, which I doubt. If I ordered a custom color and then it wasn't that custom color, a refund for just the color upcharge would not satisfy me (I ordered a guitar in a certain color, not a guitar and a paintjob). I wonder if a credit card dispute is possible here. 

Not the first thread like this I've seen about Kiesel, unfortunately. I've held off on a Vader 7 build because of all the poor service I've heard about. Kiesel are going to run themselves into the ground if they keep acting like it's not their job to get customers what they paid for. A custom shop that won't do the job they promise for every customer must think they have suckers for clients. 
#7
Why did you delete the Facebook thread? You should also post on their company review site. They can't delete those.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#8
Sounds like standard operation for Kiesel. Look at the 25+ page thread on another 7 string oriented forum.
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#9
this is what happens when a company does not have a standard way of doing things, specifically, finishes.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#10
Pictures...pictures...

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#12
Quote by DarthV
Sounds like standard operation for Kiesel. Look at the 25+ page thread on another 7 string oriented forum.


It's probably destined to start another 25 page thread here.
In the end, these always turn out to be miscommunications somewhere along the line, and the threads become "he said, she said" and when you investigate them, there turns out to have been something vital left out of the thread that makes a big difference. It'll be interesting to see how this hagfest turns out.

I've got seven Carvins (not Kiesels) and will be ordering a VM7 at some point in the next 12 months. I've met Jeff at NAMM and told him that I'd be ordering, and that if he screwed up my order, I'd drive down the 15 (I'm two hours away in LA) and club him like a baby seal.

That aside, almost all of Carvin/Kiesel's issues in the past twenty-something years that they've had the custom order process have been related to the paint shop. For years they had a master there who did stunning, amazing work in no time at all. When he left, Carvin had a period of time where new painters were being....I dunno....trained? And order times slipped, sometimes months, and some really sad paint jobs made it out the door. Then, nearly as quickly as things had gone to hell, they were back again and paint jobs were once again spectacular. Every now and again, someone doesn't pay attention to the order sheet and there's a glitch in a switch. I got a guitar with a phase switch where I'd ordered a bridge add-in switch. It took about 15 minutes to right that, and most of that time was spent looking for the solder.

Jeff has really modernized and extended the offerings, but it's still a family business with long-time employees. They're getting more orders now and have had to add people, and the increased pressure has them stepping on their dicks (it's a midwestern farming community colloquial phrase not to be taken literally unless you're a horse or a bull that can actually DO that) occasionally. The internet being what it is, two incidents like this can sound like the CDC has lost control of ebola and it's taking over the world.

I would absolutely NOT rule them out of my shortlist when considering a custom (and in fact, I'll be ordering up within the next 12 months). But this ain't my first time ordering. A phone order is followed up by an email and then a snail mail and then another several phone calls, with requests for photos before shipping. It's the non-stupid way to do customs. They may spit in my pickup cavity, but they haven't screwed up yet. And they know the club is in the trunk of my car for when they do .
#13
the safest thing to do is never order anything from them that is an option 50 and can't be returned.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#15
despellman, have you read the thread over there? Obvious design flaw that Kiesel is not addressing and blaming their customers (bridge saddles almost maxed out leaving almost no room for adjustment). They had trem mount issues with Vaders as well. Or the guy who ordered a lefty and received a righty guitar. Kiesel said he hadn't ordered it that way, until invoice was posted

I wouldn't expect every single guitar to be perfect, but if there's an issue the manufacturer has to own the mistake and fix the problem. Doesn't seem that's how it works right now with Kiesel.

Kinda chuckle at this $3500 K7 review:



Inlay issue, side dots mis-aligned, fretboard issues, ding in the headstock, string ferrule issue and a chunk missing out of the nut. Read the back & forth between the owner and Kiesel. Why the hell would anyone want to deal with that BS? I wouldn't expect that many issues from an Indo built $500 guitar let alone a custom shop job that costs as much as a Suhr or EBMM BFR. And I have seen a messed up neck on a brand new EBMM. They also fixed the issue ASAP.
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
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Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
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Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#16
Quote by Ippon
OP created an account to whine and then bails.

*waiting for pics*


to be fair i've seen this guitar...and it's hard as balls to post pics these days. photobucket has turned into some kind of horror.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#17
I have never actually played one but some of the images I have seen have been pretty unforgivable. The issue doesn't seem to be their quality because I'm sure they have made thousands of A+ quality instruments that have satisfied customers, the issue appears to be their quality control and how they deal with complaints.
#18
Quote by moksdrunk
This is the reference photo

Use imgur, photobucket is a swamp of ad related crap and clunky AF.
Also the URL must end with the photos extension example www.wtf.com/picture.jpg

Also "Facebook" that's why they won't take it back, they would have to take back over 900 guitars.
Last edited by 33db at May 31, 2017,
#19
Quote by moksdrunk
.

Nevertheless, the guitar from the reference picture is a natural/yellow color in the middle, transitions into a thin green then transitions into an aqua then the black burst.

The guitar I got is light blue in the middle and gets gets darker blue as it works its way out. There's no black burst.

Now they did refund me the cost of the black burst because they said its either not there or done soo poorly that they couldn't tell if it was even there. But they won't rebuild/refund because they claim that the reason they are a different color is because I went with a lower quality poplar burl top than the one from the reference photo.


That sounds like an incredibly complicated paint job.
I have a guitar that's something like your description (haven't seen your photo):



But mine's a maple quilt, started with their dark dye job (then sanded back) on the raw wood. This was done by an outstanding painter, and I really haven't seen them tackle one like it since. The yellow on the inner end is nearly metallic. Do you know what the wood is for either your reference photo (still haven't seen it) or the burst you've seen since then?
#20
Quote by DarthV
despellman, have you read the thread over there? Obvious design flaw that Kiesel is not addressing and blaming their customers (bridge saddles almost maxed out leaving almost no room for adjustment). They had trem mount issues with Vaders as well. Or the guy who ordered a lefty and received a righty guitar. Kiesel said he hadn't ordered it that way, until invoice was posted

I wouldn't expect every single guitar to be perfect, but if there's an issue the manufacturer has to own the mistake and fix the problem. Doesn't seem that's how it works right now with Kiesel.


As you say, these are issues that can easily be handled via good customer service.
#21
Quote by dspellman
As you say, these are issues that can easily be handled via good customer service.

Which seems to be missing with Kiesel right now.

And damn, your Carvin looks amazing!
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#22
Quote by DarthV
Which seems to be missing with Kiesel right now.

And damn, your Carvin looks amazing!


Thanks, on behalf of the guy who painted it.
Kiesel seems to be producing mostly seriously good guitars. When they don't, their customer service department doesn't seem to understand how best to handle these issues. One of the curses of a family-owned business is that they don't necessarily accept "coaching" well, nor are they particularly flexible, push comes to shove.
#23
Just make sure you actually understand what options you are getting, make sure you have no options 50s and inspect your shit really carefully in your 10 days.
but i've seen the op's guitar and it's nothing like the reference photo. kiesel needs to learn how to say no when it comes to finishes.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#25
Quote by Roc8995
If they already admitted that it's not right, it falls to them to make it right or refund you, to your satisfaction. Unless they told you ahead of time that the top wood you chose was going to mess with the finish, which I doubt. If I ordered a custom color and then it wasn't that custom color, a refund for just the color upcharge would not satisfy me (I ordered a guitar in a certain color, not a guitar and a paintjob). I wonder if a credit card dispute is possible here. 

Not the first thread like this I've seen about Kiesel, unfortunately. I've held off on a Vader 7 build because of all the poor service I've heard about. Kiesel are going to run themselves into the ground if they keep acting like it's not their job to get customers what they paid for. A custom shop that won't do the job they promise for every customer must think they have suckers for clients. 


Agreed.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#26
Quote by 33db
I'm confused was a pic of the guitar in question ever posted?


Not so far.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#27
Ok guys, sorry I'm back. I created an Imurjur or whatever it's called and uploaded the pictures.

As you may have guessed I'm not super computer savvy. This post is a test run and I hope it works. Hopefully this will link you to the pictures.

If I'm not mistaken the first picture is the guitar I found after the fact, the middle picture was my reference photo, specifically the guitar in the right, and the last picture is the guitar they shipped me.

https://imgur.com/gallery/wlTgf

*crosses fingers*
#28
I saw it on FB , it's a sweet guitar but the color didn't turn out like he wanted/visioned , maybe different wood with same color = different color than the picture  , not sure ?... never ordered a new Kiesel but just bought m first Carvin used TL60 with Fischman Pezio bridge and if is a beauty , perfect in everyway but maybe the original owner wanted a different color and it came in this way  ?? but I'm happy ....  I would avoid a Option 50 guitar 
#29
Ok, it appears to have worked and the photos are in the order I described. Sorry that you guys have to leave this site to see the pictures. Maybe someone a little slicker with the internet can post them from my link?

I should mention that their customer service guy took this issue up with Jeff himself twice and Jeff somehow doesn't see a problem. At this point I'm pretty sure I'm stuck with the guitar.

Also, I didn't delete the post I made in the Kiesel group. If it's gone, they deleted it. I did however leave the group.

As I said before I'll be swinging through here at least once a day and would be more than happy to elaborate or answer questions.
#30
another thing I don't like on Kiesel / Carvin is no serial number , nothing , zip and notta ....... I can email G&L with a serial number and have all the  build info including to where it was shipped to and who it went to and who actually built , assemble and inspected the guitar ...... absolutely no marking on a Carvin what so ever
#31
Here you go. Definitely not what you paid for. Still beautiful but not right.





#32
Fumble fingers
Quote by Fumble fingers
I saw it on FB , it's a sweet guitar but the color didn't turn out like he wanted/visioned , maybe different wood with same color = different color than the picture  , not sure ?... never ordered a new Kiesel but just bought m first Carvin used TL60 with Fischman Pezio bridge and if is a beauty , perfect in everyway but maybe the original owner wanted a different color and it came in this way  ?? but I'm happy ....  I would avoid a Option 50 guitar 


I used the same wood (poplar burl) from the reference photo with the exception of the quality of the top wood. I was assured that the quality of the wood would only affect the amount of burl eyes not the color. Then they told me that's why the color was different because the burl eyes affect how the caliburst works BUT then I found a picture of the finish in swamp ash with no burl eyes.
#33
moksdrunk

Damn- not only is that not even close, the reference photo is for one of their own products and they STILL screwed it up?

Bad Kiesel!
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#34
Quote by moksdrunk
Ok guys, sorry I'm back. I created an Imurjur or whatever it's called and uploaded the pictures.

As you may have guessed I'm not super computer savvy. This post is a test run and I hope it works. Hopefully this will link you to the pictures.

If I'm not mistaken the first picture is the guitar I found after the fact, the middle picture was my reference photo, specifically the guitar in the right, and the last picture is the guitar they shipped me.

https://imgur.com/gallery/wlTgf

*crosses fingers*


It worked. Yup, you're right -- it's not the same paint job. You need to do whatever you need to do with customer service at Carvin/Kiesel to resolve it. Nothing will happen in the Court of Forum Opinion. Not a damned thing. There's no advice we can give you, no commiseration we can offer that will change the color of that guitar. Deal with them, or deal with your credit card company, or take them to small claims court or armwrestle with Jeff. Git 'er dun.
#36
Quote by Fumble fingers
another thing I don't like on Kiesel / Carvin is no serial number , nothing , zip and notta ....... I can email G&L with a serial number and have all the  build info including to where it was shipped to and who it went to and who actually built , assemble and inspected the guitar ...... absolutely no marking on a Carvin what so ever


Really? That's new. I have serial numbers on every one of my Carvin guitars. In fact, I have a black guitar with paint that covered all of the neck and body wood. I sent them my serial number and they told me it was a solid mahogany neck and body guitar. The serial number has variously been stamped into the surround on the output jack or onto the fretboard itself. Some have it on the control cavity plate, and some bolt-necks have had it on the neck plate. There's not a lot of information available from their serial numbers, nor is their serial numbering system logical in any way. They may have changed recently, but it's been there from the 1970's through the mid-2000's at least.

Last edited by dspellman at May 31, 2017,
#37
Quote by dspellman
Really? That's new. I have serial numbers on every one of my Carvin guitars. In fact, I have a black guitar with paint that covered all of the neck and body wood. I sent them my serial number and they told me it was a solid mahogany neck and body guitar. The serial number has variously been stamped into the surround on the output jack or onto the fretboard itself. Some have it on the control cavity plate, and some bolt-necks have had it on the neck plate. There's not a lot of information available from their serial numbers, nor is their serial numbering system logical in any way. They may have changed recently, but it's been there from the 1970's through the mid-2000's at least.


good to know , I don't think mine does but your picture shows it , I'll look mine over better tonight and see if it has one on the plate , mine has the double output jacks with the Fishman , I'll look closer tonight when I get home from work
#38
Where I work (won't mention names due to job security and emplyment agreements, but it's manufacturing wood products for a much larger customer base than guitars) if we sent out our product even slightly the wrong color, and the customer wasn't happy, we would replace it if needed, and whatever else the customer would need to be happy, things like free upgrades or extras. Even before becoming a part of a large corporation. No matter what business, small or large, the customer needs to comes first. And we're selling $30k+ products.

One of the best mottos to have in a custom business is "We are building customer's dreams".
#39
If the guitar they sent you the last of three pics you posted I think you got the nicer looking guitar. I like the way the bottom pic looks much more than the other two. But that doesn't change the fact that you didn't get what you wanted. That's wrong.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
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