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#1
Hi,

The clean sound of my guitar needs to be preserved but I'd like to add the slightest WARM crunch to it, so I'm looking for a pedal (analog) which will allow me to control crunch very well so that it only 'kisses' my guitar sound, something airy and natural.
I might turn it up once a while too.

Currently I'm using a RAT clone distortion for this but the problem is that I can't get the slight crunch I want, it's either no crunch then I turn the knob a little it's TOO MUCH crunch, I need finer control..

And if this pedal also had a expression pedal option, that would be the cherry on the cake !
A tone knob on the pedal would also be a nice bonus.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks !
#2
An overdrive would do the trick. Expression pedal might be a tough thing to get with an overdrive or clean boost though. Perhaps you can add a volumepedal
#3
Alright but I would prefer not to use a volume pedal.
Also, skip the expression pedal for now.
I just mentioned it because it would be nice if I could modify the crunch level while I'm playing.
The most important part for me is the crunch control so I can really dial it in the way I like, which is just a tiny warm bit of 'dirt' on my guitar sound.
Can you give me any model names of pedals which would give me the fine control I'm looking for ?

Thanks.
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 3, 2017,
#4
A TS-9 can be dialed way back to get a slight crunch or turn the drive down to zero and turn the volume up on the TS9 until the amp starts to break up naturally. 
#5
Thanks, I've checked it out and this is indeed what I'm looking for, it has the precise control I want even on low levels
I will go to my local guitar shop to try it out.
If you know of other models which can also achieve my goal, I definitely want to hear it
Maybe something that sounds even warmer than the ts-9 ?
It doesn't matter what brand or price, or if it's a tone booster, distortion, overdrive, tube screamer, etc, as long as it gets the job done.
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 3, 2017,
#6
You can adjust volume control on guitar to vary dirt as well.
#7
Consider these low/medium gain ODs:

Boss BD-2 Blues Driver
Magnetic Effects Satellite
Keeley Katana Blues Driver
ThorpyFX Peacekeeper
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#8
I sometimes use a very small amount of crunch, and, as has been noted, a lot of OD pedals will do it. The one I use most is a Sansamp Character British, which has a very wide tonal range, but the Digitech Bad Monkey is also good (mine most definitely does not suck tone), with a compressor to make them less touch-sensitive.
#9
What amp do you have? Perhaps a boost pedal would work to drive the preamp a little harder? Not all boosts are completely transparent tonally, the xotic ep boost thickens up the low end a bit, that and some high end roll off might fulfil your want of 'warmth'?

What's your budget? A tube screamer, blues driver, blues breaker v1 [marshall pedal], or a timmy might fit the bill, although something like a klon clone [wampler tumnus, ehx soul food] might be right up your alley. Klon's are generally thicker in the low mids, and blend clean tone in with the drive - giving just a bit of crunch and grit on lower gain settings. It's got a much less compressed feel compared to a tube screamer because of this.

Another one I just thought of is the maxon od820 - it's basically a tubescreamer with a little more low end but, like the klon, on low drive levels it mixes in some dry, undistorted signal.
RIP Gooze

cats
Last edited by mulefish at Jun 3, 2017,
#10
My Wampler Super-plextortion has 3 gain stages. Perfect for what you describe.
Dean Icon PZ
Line 6 Variax 700
Dean V-Wing
Dean ML 79 SilverBurst
MXR M 108
H2O Chorus/Echo
Valve Junior (V3 Head/Cab and Combo)
VHT Special 6
Phonic 620 Power Pod PA
Wampler Super Plextortion
Line 6 Pod HD
#11
my mooer rat tone does low gain pretty well maybe yours is faulty or has the wrong value pot or something.

that being said, an overdrive is probably what you want, as the people above have said- although my rat will do it, it wouldn't be my first choice, either.


Quote by mulefish

What's your budget? A tube screamer, blues driver, blues breaker v1 [marshall pedal], or a timmy might fit the bill, although something like a klon clone [wampler tumnus, ehx soul food] might be right up your alley.


yeah pretty much.
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#12
Hi,
Thanks for all the suggestions, I will check them out. Hopefully I can find some youtube videos of these pedals being used on low gain.
Whatever sounds most natural/transparent I will buy.
I'm not too keen on using a booster to drive my amp's preamp harder because I think it will also add volume.
If nothing sounds natural enough, I might try to split the guitar clean sound, send one through a crunch, and combine the clean/crunch signals again to send to the amp. That's just an idea I had yesterday, don't know how the result would be.
I'd like to preserve the clean sound as much as possible, my guitar already sounds warm, open and natural. Almost like an acoustic even, I like it.

What do you think about the spliting idea ? Has it been done before ?
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 4, 2017,
#13
gerardi.david
The splitting thing can be done, but there are also pedals that can do that internally. I think the Way Huge Pork Loin does.
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#14
Quote by gerardi.david
Hi,
Thanks for all the suggestions, I will check them out. Hopefully I can find some youtube videos of these pedals being used on low gain.
Whatever sounds most natural/transparent I will buy.
I'm not too keen on using a booster to drive my amp's preamp harder because I think it will also add volume.
If nothing sounds natural enough, I might try to split the guitar clean sound, send one through a crunch, and combine the clean/crunch signals again to send to the amp. That's just an idea I had yesterday, don't know how the result would be.
I'd like to preserve the clean sound as much as possible, my guitar already sounds warm, open and natural. Almost like an acoustic even, I like it.

What do you think about the spliting idea ? Has it been done before ?

This is what the klon's do. It's also what the maxon od820 does. The clean/od mix, as well as the amount of drive, is controlled by the single drive pot in these cases.

There are a few other pedals that do this, it''s especially common on bass ods.

Several others do it too. For instance, the voodoo labs sparkle drive is similar to the 820, but has a seperate blend pot.
RIP Gooze

cats
#15
gerardi.david 
Quote by gerardi.david
Hi,
Thanks for all the suggestions, I will check them out. Hopefully I can find some youtube videos of these pedals being used on low gain.
Whatever sounds most natural/transparent I will buy.
I'm not too keen on using a booster to drive my amp's preamp harder because I think it will also add volume.
If nothing sounds natural enough, I might try to split the guitar clean sound, send one through a crunch, and combine the clean/crunch signals again to send to the amp. That's just an idea I had yesterday, don't know how the result would be.
I'd like to preserve the clean sound as much as possible, my guitar already sounds warm, open and natural. Almost like an acoustic even, I like it.

What do you think about the spliting idea ? Has it been done before ?

As already noted, some pedals already have the dry-wet mix, and the Sparkle Drive seems very popular. I have a Boss LS-2 line selector, but I use it for blending clean and reverb. It is probably the most all-round useful pedal I have. I tried it for mixing clean and fuzz, but it wasn't the kind of sound I'm was looking for: I'm sure it would work well for blending clean and OD
#16
I've checked out a few pedals already on youtube but no one plays them on the levels I want to hear The thing is, I have a good clean sound and I have a good distortion sound. I'm looking for a pedal that can give me that in between sound. Where the clean is still the main sound but adding on a mix of slight distortion + fuzz, aka crunch. But warm sounding and just a tiny bit without changing the clean.
I know it's impossible to preserve the clean 100% but I want to find the pedal that gets me as close as possible.
So a pedal that does the blending thing does seem right up my alley.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I will listen to all of them.
The sparkle drive sounds nice ! I'm digging the tube screamer-ish sound, it comes close to what I'm after.. does anyone know of other tube screamer models that also do the splitting ?

Bye
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 4, 2017,
#17


Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#18
I've already seen these 3 videos, not the sound I'm after. Seems like a tube screamer fits the bill for me, it's just a question to find the best one that sounds most natural.
Thanks anyway !

Dave
#19
Ok, TS clones I've enjoyed include:

T-Rex MAB OD


Visual Sound Jekyll & Hyde V2 OD/Dist dual pedal


Visual Sound Double Trouble dual OD (both TS)


TrueTone Jekyll & Hyde V3 OD/Dist dual Pedal


TrueTone VS-XO dual OD (TS & Nobels)


Dr. No Drive-O-Matic
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#20
Lots of tubescreamer clones exist. On the cheaper side, look at the ehx east river drive, joyo vintage drive, biyang od10, mooer green mile, bbe green screamer etc
Some more fleshed out alternatives include the timmy, way huge green rhino, truetone vs-xo.

Tubescreamer isn't what I think of when I think of transparent overdrive though....

This video is pretty interesting I think, although it doesn't do the timmy justice...
RIP Gooze

cats
Last edited by mulefish at Jun 4, 2017,
#22
Quote by gerardi.david
Hi,

The clean sound of my guitar needs to be preserved but I'd like to add the slightest WARM crunch to it, so I'm looking for a pedal (analog) which will allow me to control crunch very well so that it only 'kisses' my guitar sound, something airy and natural.
I might turn it up once a while too.

Currently I'm using a RAT clone distortion for this but the problem is that I can't get the slight crunch I want, it's either no crunch then I turn the knob a little it's TOO MUCH crunch, I need finer control..

And if this pedal also had a expression pedal option, that would be the cherry on the cake !
A tone knob on the pedal would also be a nice bonus.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks !

Ernie Ball just released an Expression pedal overdrive. 
#23
Quote by gerardi.david
I've checked out a few pedals already on youtube but no one plays them on the levels I want to hear The thing is, I have a good clean sound and I have a good distortion sound. I'm looking for a pedal that can give me that in between sound. Where the clean is still the main sound but adding on a mix of slight distortion + fuzz, aka crunch. But warm sounding and just a tiny bit without changing the clean.
I know it's impossible to preserve the clean 100% but I want to find the pedal that gets me as close as possible.
So a pedal that does the blending thing does seem right up my alley.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I will listen to all of them.
The sparkle drive sounds nice ! I'm digging the tube screamer-ish sound, it comes close to what I'm after.. does anyone know of other tube screamer models that also do the splitting ?

Bye

Avoid Tubescreamers if you want transparency, they alter the EQ fundamentally of your tone.  I would recommend the Xotic AC Booster or RC Booster if you want a transparent light overdrive - they are more transparent.
#24
^ yeah the rc boost is pretty transparent if my cheapo mooer clone is anything to go by. but really any of those ones suggested by mulefish are pretty transparent and can be dialled in to sound close to the RC boost (or vice-versa), apart from the tubescreamer.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#25
Quote by reverb66
Avoid Tubescreamers if you want transparency, they alter the EQ fundamentally of your tone.  I would recommend the Xotic AC Booster or RC Booster if you want a transparent light overdrive - they are more transparent.


I've checked these xotic pedals and they do sound transparent but it's not the sound I'm after..
Ps I play rythm, never any solos.
I'm looking for that warm crunchy sound which I can only describe as distortion + fuzz but on a very low level, just to add some dirt basicly. For stone rock/grunge/indie
The tube screamers seem to come close to that sound
Any other hidden gems you guys know of ?
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 5, 2017,
#26
Here's a thought: can you post a video of what you're trying to achieve?

I ask because you've asked about "transparent" ODs, but don't seem to like them.

I was just reminded of the Arc Effects Klon clone by ibanezguitars44 in another thread. Perhaps that one?
http://arc-effects.com/klone-v2/
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#27
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Here's a thought: can you post a video of what you're trying to achieve?

I ask because you've asked about "transparent" ODs, but don't seem to like them.

I was just reminded of the Arc Effects Klon clone by ibanezguitars44 in another thread. Perhaps that one?
http://arc-effects.com/klone-v2/


Good idea, I will post a video if I hear a guitar sound that comes close to what I want.
I don't have a song immediately on the top of my head..
In the meantime I just played and recorded with my phone, a short part of hurt - johny cash
You'll hear me kick in my pedal I currently use for the sound I'm trying to explain
It's nice, but it's already on minimum - I want a pedal where I can reduce the crunch even more so, and also more transparency to preserve the clean better.
The recording is: 2xclean verse, 4xwith pedal, 2xclean again
you can listen here: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0HM0MEytav1
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 5, 2017,
#28
seems like a clean boost is what you want to me based on your recording. as i mentioned a T-Rex Crunchy Frog has a TS style overdrive and a seperate clean boost function. it has a blend knob to regulate the amount of overdrive in the signal as well. you may also want to look at something like an MXR 10 band EQ which has a volume slider to add a little boost and you can eq in the warmth you mentioned. 
#29
gerardi.david

Now I'm puzzled. I can get tones like that with the pedals I mentioned (plus the Klone)- perhaps the issue is your amp and/or settings?

What amp are you playing through? With how much gain, etc?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#30
Quote by gerardi.david
Hi,

The clean sound of my guitar needs to be preserved but I'd like to add the slightest WARM crunch to it, so I'm looking for a pedal (analog) which will allow me to control crunch very well

And if this pedal also had a expression pedal option, that would be the cherry on the cake !


Any suggestions ?

Thanks !

I know somewhere you said never mind on the expression, and I scanned quickly but I'm not sure if anyone mentioned what I'm thinking here

Look into the Moog Minifooger MF boost and MF drive are both designed to be used with an Expression pedal.  The boost pedal option allows you to control your level and gain with an expression pedal.  The MF drive option allows you to change the filter setting.  Both pedals are fairly transparent I think, though they are marketed to provide classic tube amp tones.
"I definitely don’t write all my music in a blackout, like I used to, although I did come up with some good stuff in a blackout."
-Matt Fucking Pike
#32
Quote by dannyalcatraz
gerardi.david

Now I'm puzzled. I can get tones like that with the pedals I mentioned (plus the Klone)- perhaps the issue is your amp and/or settings?

What amp are you playing through? With how much gain, etc?


My amp/clean sound is just fine to me, I don't want to change it
What I want is a better pedal for the 2nd sound you hear in my recording
I know it's subtle but this is what I like, this is my 'in between' sound, I have a nice distorted sound aswell allthough I didn't use it in this recording
I don't like having too much pedals, I just want to nail these 3 sounds and that's all I need really
I've got the clean + distorted sound down, just the in between now and I'll be set
This pedal needs to have the right crunchy sound and should have a very wide range so I can set it exactly the way I like

I will check out all these pedals mentioned here, thanks !
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 6, 2017,
#34
Quote by gerardi.david
My amp/clean sound is just fine to me, I don't want to change it
What I want is a better pedal for the 2nd sound you hear in my recording
I know it's subtle but this is what I like, this is my 'in between' sound, I have a nice distorted sound aswell allthough I didn't use it in this recording
I don't like having too much pedals, I just want to nail these 3 sounds and that's all I need really
I've got the clean + distorted sound down, just the in between now and I'll be set
This pedal needs to have the right crunchy sound and should have a very wide range so I can set it exactly the way I like

I will check out all these pedals mentioned here, thanks !

Even given this you should still tell us what amp you use... Different amps respond differently too different pedals. Help us help you.
RIP Gooze

cats
#35
Quote by mulefish
Even given this you should still tell us what amp you use... Different amps respond differently too different pedals. Help us help you.


Alright, I'm not using anything fancy though, for practice at home I'm using a 25 watt Peavey transtube amp (solid state 1x8) which is what you heard on the recording.
Had it for 10 years and it only sounds better over the years..
In my band I use a 60 watt Peavey 5150 full tube amp (2x12) from '85 I think, I just bought it second hand.
Even thought it's often labeled as a metal amp I've found it has a sweet tone for rock aswell.
Both amps are similar so what works on one amp, I know will also work on the other, they both sound warm and full.
I'm only talking about their clean sound, I don't like the lead channels.

Dave
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 6, 2017,
#36
After listening to your clip, I think there's a lot of low gain overdriven and boosts that can do what you want. Check out any of the klones. Arc effects, rockett, ehx soul food, sampler tumnus, etc.

Also check out the Timmy. Or the Xotic rc booster. Or a tube screamer.

I think most pedals marketed as a low gain drive could get pretty close for you. Just down to your preference which is best.
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


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#37
Quote by gerardi.david
Alright, I'm not using anything fancy though, for practice at home I'm using a 25 watt Peavey transtube amp (solid state 1x8) which is what you heard on the recording.
Had it for 10 years and it only sounds better over the years..
In my band I use a 60 watt Peavey 5150 full tube amp (2x12) from '85 I think, I just bought it second hand.
Even thought it's often labeled as a metal amp I've found it has a sweet tone for rock aswell.
Both amps are similar so what works on one amp, I know will also work on the other, they both sound warm and full.
I'm only talking about their clean sound, I don't like the lead channels.

Dave

to say that any given pedal will sound the same thru your amps is a bit of a stretch.  a solid state practice amp with a 8" speaker won't sound the same as your 5150 2x12 nor will they react the same. you really don't hear a difference between the 2?
#38
Quote by monwobobbo
to say that any given pedal will sound the same thru your amps is a bit of a stretch.  a solid state practice amp with a 8" speaker won't sound the same as your 5150 2x12 nor will they react the same. you really don't hear a difference between the 2?


I'd say the big tube amp has a more natural response/sounds even warmer and obviously there a big volume difference but I'm equally happy with the tone I'm getting out of the small amp, many times I'm even surprised how good it sounds.
I usually put it on the table right in front of me to hear it better
The pedals I'm using translate well between the amps.
For the money, I've found Peavey puts other equally priced amps to shame when we're talking tone.
Plus they're build to last and age well.
But everyone has his own personal experience ofcourse..
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 6, 2017,
#39
Part of the reason why people use boosts to provide that slight crunch you desire is because of the way that these pedals push the amp harder driving it's front end. The way that a tube amp responds to this is very different to the way a solid state amp does. Boosting a tube will cause it to compress and overdrive, whereas solid state components don't respond as gracefully. Solid state circuitry generally stays clean until suddenly it gives way into [generally nasty sounding]. I don't know how that peavey responds when it's clean channel is pushed [it might give way into relatively pleasant sounding overdrive depending on design], it might even be your favourite tone ever, but I can guarantee it won't react like your tube amp.

A clean boost probably won't do it for you on the transtube, even if it might be perfect for the 5150.

Tube screamers are often ran with the gain on min and the level at maximum to provide some slight clipping, but mainly a volume boost to push the front end of a tube amp much like a boost [they also cut a lot of low end]. A tube screamer variety, or a more transparent version like the timmy, xotic ac boost etc might be a good middle ground solution, allowing you to boost your tube amps front end as well as providing more stand alone gain on the solid state.
RIP Gooze

cats
#40
Quote by mulefish
Part of the reason why people use boosts to provide that slight crunch you desire is because of the way that these pedals push the amp harder driving it's front end. The way that a tube amp responds to this is very different to the way a solid state amp does. Boosting a tube will cause it to compress and overdrive, whereas solid state components don't respond as gracefully. Solid state circuitry generally stays clean until suddenly it gives way into [generally nasty sounding]. I don't know how that peavey responds when it's clean channel is pushed [it might give way into relatively pleasant sounding overdrive depending on design], it might even be your favourite tone ever, but I can guarantee it won't react like your tube amp.

A clean boost probably won't do it for you on the transtube, even if it might be perfect for the 5150.

Tube screamers are often ran with the gain on min and the level at maximum to provide some slight clipping, but mainly a volume boost to push the front end of a tube amp much like a boost [they also cut a lot of low end]. A tube screamer variety, or a more transparent version like the timmy, xotic ac boost etc might be a good middle ground solution, allowing you to boost your tube amps front end as well as providing more stand alone gain on the solid state.


You're right the preamps won't react the same when pushed.
In an ideal world, I'd like to find a pedal that I can just set and forget for both amps, and one that doesn't have to push the preamp to get the tone I want, so it should have a master volume so I can avoid that happening.
Sure an expression pedal would be a nice addon for those occasional freakouts but I can live without, most of the time it's set and forget.
Guess I'll have to do some more youtube'ing and go to a shop to test the pedals I like.

Thanks for the help!
Last edited by gerardi.david at Jun 6, 2017,
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