#1
Hi there
I am a electric guitar player . i use troy stetina books for learn playing . i want to compose instrumental rock music
I dont know about harmony in music . must i learn jazz harmony for rock music ? also i dont know about music form in instrumental music
#3
I dont Know what i looking for how i should start for music copose i learned music theory (scales . modes. Intervals . chords and ... )
#4
Suggest you type "how to write my own songs" into google and look at the links there like this one 

https://blog.sofasession.com/how-to-write-a-song-in-10-easy-steps-beginners/

But I can tell you, because I have worked with loads of musicians over many years that they all do it differently, and in a different order and often with one person writing the word and the other writing the music, but you only want to write instrumental rock? 

So, I would suggest this way might work and I am sure others will have there own ideas on how to do this

1. Choose a scale and a rhythm (e.g. Am and 4/4)
2. Write a riff using notes in the scale - I assume you know what a riff is - if not listen to Deep Purple Smoke on the Water which is the most famous rock riff of all time.
3. Write the "answer riff" - this is like the second part of the riff, the first is a question the second is answer.
4. Work out what the backing chords need to be given the notes in the riffs
5. Write a drum track - you may need a drummer to do this - it may be better to do a basic drum track first, or at least think of one while you write the riff or the chords (you can also do the chords before the riff if you like)
6. You could write a melody before or instead of the riff - same thing really - and may be put a harmony on it - putting harmony is really a minor thing.
7. Arrange it in sort of verses, choruses and bits in between
8. Go round in circles changing it untill it's something you like


And by the way, remember that many famous musicians a) did not have any formal music education and did it all by ear, and b) the rules need to be broken for innovation.c) it's a good idea to use a DAW like Reaper or even Garage Band to record drum and chord backing tracks and write a riff / melody over it.

And forget about Jazz (unless you want to write Jazzy Rock), if you are going to learn about a particular music type to help with instrumental rock then learn about classical music and about, perhaps more importantly, about blues.
Last edited by PSimonR at Jun 4, 2017,
#5
If you want to write music, you first need to come up with an idea. You may get this idea by just noodling around on your guitar or humming a melody or by listening to music that you like and trying to come up with something that sound similar. And sometimes you just start hearing something in your head.

Theory itself doesn't tell you how to compose music. It's just a way of giving names to musical concepts. But when you know what these musical concepts are, it becomes easier to figure out what's happening in other people's music.

But yeah, as I said, first you need an idea and you just need to find inspiration from something.

If you want to write rock music with some jazz influences, only then I would suggest learning about jazz harmony. But most rock doesn't use "jazz harmony" in it. Learning about it won't of course hurt you but it's probably not the most beneficial thing for you to learn.

Songwriting is also a skill that you need to practice. You just need to start writing. It's the same as practicing guitar. You can't get good if you don't practice. You don't learn to play guitar just by reading books. Similarly, you don't learn to compose just by reading books. Of course reading books will also help but playing the guitar and composing are both practical skills, and the only way to learn it is to do it.

I would also suggest learning songs by ear. You want to develop your ears so that you can hear sounds in your head and play the sounds that you are hearing. If you can't do that, it will be very difficult to achieve what you are after.

Do you have an idea of what kind of music you want to write? I mean, is there a band whose sound you like? Start with analyzing one of their songs and figure out what's happening in it.

Figure out the song structure (intro, verse, chorus, etc). This way you will know approximately how many parts you need to come up with to write a full song (it's usually not more than three or four different parts if it's a 3-5 minute song). Then focus on each part and what's happening in it. There's probably some kind of a riff that repeats over and over again behind the vocal melody. Do the different parts of the song have different riffs? When it comes to harmony, how do the different parts differ from each other? (For example, if the verse is in the key of C major, is the chorus also in the key of C major or does it modulate to some other key? And if the verse starts with a C major chord, does the chorus also start with a C major chord or maybe an Am or F major chord?) What about rhythm? Do the chorus and the verse have a similar groove or does the groove change (what I mean by "groove" is about where the accents are placed)? Maybe the verse is based on a riff and in the chorus there are just long power chords (or vice versa)? How do the transitions between the sections work? Maybe there is a short pre-chorus that works as a link between the verse and the chorus (for example if it's a calm verse and a louder chorus, maybe the pre-chorus works as a crescendo)? Are there any dynamics (for example is the chorus louder than the verse) and how are these dynamics achieved (for example drums may not play in the verse and only play in the chorus, or maybe the verse uses clean guitar tone and the chorus uses distorted guitar)? How does the melody work? For example does the chorus use higher register and the verse lower register? Is there some repetition? What's happening in the lyrics (considering that you want to write a song with vocals) in different sections?

Those were just examples of things that you could pay attention to. But in the end, don't overthink it. These are just things that could help you when you are stuck and they will give you a better understanding of how a song is constructed. The more songs you analyze, the more similarities you start noticing in them.

Theory knowledge means nothing if you can't apply it. And what I mean by "applying it" is that you should be able to recognize concepts that you have learned in actual music. For example if you have learned about chord functions but can't tell if a song has a I-IV-V-I progression when you hear it or play it, then you haven't actually learned it properly and you really don't have the knowledge to apply it to actual music. To learn theory properly, you need to learn it "practically". What I mean is that you don't just learn some abstract explanations of how music is supposed to work, but find those concepts in actual music. So if you learn about something, you should try to find that concept in a song. When you can do that, then you can say that you have learned it.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#6
You can start composing music any time you like. It will probably be slow and frustrating without any knowledge of your instrument or music theory, but the creative process tends to be slow and frustrating even for people who are very good at it. Learning music theory and harmony will help you greatly in putting out more music more quickly that sounds more like what you want. It's time consuming to study other music and work out the patterns and apply them to your own compositions, but that's basically how any good songwriter develops, whether or not they pursue it in an academic setting.

And if you want to get into harmony proper, you'll need material a bit more involved than most rock. Most rock music is little more than a bass line and a vocal melody, with the guitar adding only texture rather than actual harmony. Unless you study up on stuff like the Beatles, ELP, Zappa, Yes, and other progressive music, you're not going to find much interesting harmony in rock. And those artists definitely had non-rock influences that guided their approach to composition, mostly classical music. You don't have to be well-versed in classical or jazz to do interesting things with rock, but it does help a lot to have some experience with the basic aesthetics of other musical styles.

But that's all regarding harmony in a strict sense. It sounds like you're at a level where you need to get the basics first. Learning how to label the notes and chords has to come before analyzing how they all fit together. 
Last edited by cdgraves at Jun 4, 2017,
#7
Thank you very much
I like instrumental music like steve vai songs and...
And my goal is write a song like that
#8
Quote by broken-spades
Thank you very much
I like instrumental music like steve vai songs and...
And my goal is write a song like that

ok yes then you'll want to learn jazz and classical harmony. Fortunately, those are the musics from which our concepts of Harmony derive, so there are a great many resources on how to apply both to guitar.
#9
I suggest you begin with Diatonic harmony..it is based on the major scale and the chords it produces and how they work together...it is usually broken down so you begin the triads ( 3 note chords) and then move to (4 note chords) .. If studied well you will begin to see the how chord progressions are formed and the logic used to create them.

I strongly suggest you begin to study songs that use some of these progressions. Early Beatles tunes are a good source of material and other songs around that same time period.

Now you will discover that even simple songs use chords that go out of "Key" within the song structure..at that point you may search google for answers on this if the harmony studies you are working with don't address it.

I would also begin to look for a very good teacher..one that can demonstrate concepts for you and guide you should you find certain parts of the material beyond your grasp at the moment..like certain terminology..diminished. dominant and other such terms. If you are really serious about learning this type of stuff a good teacher is worth every penny and then some.
play well

wolf
#11
Quote by broken-spades
Thank you i learning electric guitar for 1 years is it enough for compose song ?

You compose a song as soon as you compose  a song. Don't worry about it being awesome. There are plenty of compositional skills you can practice even with terrible music. 

Themes, development, and structure are the real nuts and bolts of composition. You can work on those skills long before you get to understanding how harmony fits in with them.
#12
Quote by broken-spades
Thank you i learning electric guitar for 1 years is it enough for compose song ?

Probably not enough to compose Steve Vai style songs because they are pretty heavily focused on technical guitar playing (but I wouldn't suggest trying to compose a Steve Vai style song as your first song). But composing "a song" doesn't really require playing technique. It just requires enough knowledge of music, so that you can translate the ideas in your head to actual sounds. But it's possible to do without playing any instrument - you don't need an instrument to write a song. All you need is a musical idea and a way of performing/recording that idea (this means, record your playing/humming, use Guitar Pro/Tux Guitar/tab to notate the idea, use standard notation, use piano roll notation, or whatever you like - the point is to get the musical idea out of your head).

Songwriting and playing are two different skills, and somebody may be a really skilled player but has never written a song. Then again, somebody may write great songs but is not that good at playing their instrument.

So just start writing. There's nothing to stop you from doing that. Just start experimenting with things and if you find something that sounds cool or if you start hearing a melody (or a riff, chord progression, rhythm, whatever) in your head, use that. That's really all you need to start composing. After you have an idea, the next question is what should come next. Should the idea repeat? How many repeats is enough? What should come after that (maybe a whole another section or maybe a variation of the first idea)? Use your imagination and ears. Try to think about the sounds that you would like to hear next.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Jun 7, 2017,
#13
broken-spades Songwriting is, in my opinion, something learned over time. The best way of learning to write is to listen to any type of music - most musicians only make a small portion of the types of music they listen to. The basic methods of songwriting process posted here before are a good start, but I'd suggest that for a really good song, 99% of the cases it won't be your first. You'll learn from your mistakes over time.
Dunlop CBM95 Mini Crybaby -> (EHX Silencer) -> Ibanez TS9DX -> Seymour Duncan Palladium -> (EHX Silencer) -> Caline 10 Band EQ -> MXR Phase 90 -> Boss TR-2 Tremolo -> Visual Sound H2O
#14
I remember my first steps towards songwriting... pretty terrible. I archived all of them, though, and sometimes, I recycle old ideas that didn't make it into a song for my new compositions. Just keep composing, and if you have enough space on your harddrive / cassette tapes / sheets of paper, try and record some and come back to it later. Worked for me.

Also, an understanding of basic music theory - say, major and minor scale - would be helpful. Don't know anything 'bout Steve Vai (never heard of him before to be honest), but knowing music theory won't hurt Perhaps Jazz is a bit overkill for a beginner, though.