#1
This is a story about a snafu in World War II when a newspaper apparently spilled the beans about a military secret that could have caused the war in the Pacific Theater to last a lot longer, and cause a major increase in US casualties. 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-battle-of-midway-press-leak-20170605-story.html

So you have to wonder (at least I wonder) how many operational military secrets would modern day "journalists" reveal to our enemies in the name of "the peoples' right to know"? Does Freedom of the Press extend to revealing operational military secrets that could cost the lives of American military personnel? 
#2
Quote by gerdner
that could have caused

lol.

It's this mentality alone that causes wars. Paranoia, "limited" resources, and access to weapons. There's no secret to it at all. Any other reason is just an attempt to grasp at straws.
Ах, так вы не пьете и не курите?
Хорошо для вас: вы здоровым умрете!
#3
Quote by Zaphikh
lol.

It's this mentality alone that causes wars. Paranoia, "limited" resources, and access to weapons. There's no secret to it at all. Any other reason is just an attempt to grasp at straws.

So tell us, what's it like on your planet? Are the unicorns really as tame as they look? 
#4
Oh, lemme tell you what, there's no place like Florida. At all.

Most unicorns can be found on those cheesy dating apps like Tinder and Grindr.
Ах, так вы не пьете и не курите?
Хорошо для вас: вы здоровым умрете!
#5
Quote by Zaphikh
Oh, lemme tell you what, there's no place like Florida. At all.

RIP Lard
#6
Quote by gerdner
This is a story about a snafu in World War II when a newspaper apparently spilled the beans about a military secret that could have caused the war in the Pacific Theater to last a lot longer, and cause a major increase in US casualties. 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-battle-of-midway-press-leak-20170605-story.html

So you have to wonder (at least I wonder) how many operational military secrets would modern day "journalists" reveal to our enemies in the name of "the peoples' right to know"? Does Freedom of the Press extend to revealing operational military secrets that could cost the lives of American military personnel? 


Dafuq? Truman was a hack that had no reason to do what he did, the war was finished. And whistleblowers led to our guy Trump getting elected, so wtf bro.

"Secret US military coup" geez, can't let this get out, oi?
.
#7
Lard lives.
Ах, так вы не пьете и не курите?
Хорошо для вас: вы здоровым умрете!
#8
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You are now using UG Black.
You are now using UG Classic.


Listening to: Pink Floyd


#Ziggy2017
#9
I've always found the use of and development of cryptology in WW2 particularly fascinating. Most notably the Turing machine (or more accurately the polish bombe) and it's ability to decrypt the enigma encryptions. I think it should be fairly obvious to anyone who knows anything about military tactics that it's a bad idea to let your enemy know your military secrets. That said, I'm sure the press would love to report this stuff regardless of the consequences as long as it made them money. Freedom of the press shouldn't extend to revealing military secrets that clearly and obviously put american citizens in danger.

Quote by Fat Lard
Truman was a hack


I don't know why this is so agitating.
Quote by Hal-Sephira

We all have the rights to be mad

So does you
Last edited by Victory2134 at Jun 5, 2017,
#10
Quote by Fat Lard
Dafuq? Truman was a hack that had no reason to do what he did, the war was finished. And whistleblowers led to our guy Trump getting elected,  so wtf bro.

"Secret US military coup" geez, can't let this get out, oi?

Truman was a Senator at the time this happened. He wasn't picked as FDR's running mate until 1944. The secret military "coup" was breaking the Japanese military code. And that was a "coup". 
#12
We need to round up journalists and execute them. It's the only reasonable thing to do.
#13
Quote by Fat Lard
Never say bad of Mr. President

That I can agree with. Coco Jambo 4 life

WHAT A
HORRIBLE
NIGHT TO
HAVE A
CURSE.
#14
The WH is giving the intel out for free to Russians or anyone else.
Why worry about journalists?
#15
Quote by My5Fingers
The WH is giving the intel out for free to Russians or anyone else.
Why worry about journalists?

The White House was ACCUSED of giving secrets to the Russians. There is a world of difference between an accusation and an actual fact. It is the Executive Branch of government who decides what information is and isn't secret. If the Commander in Chief determines that information classified as "Secret" is already known by an adversary, then the Commander in Chief can change that classification. 
#16
Quote by gerdner
The White House was ACCUSED of giving secrets to the Russians. There is a world of difference between an accusation and an actual fact. It is the Executive Branch of government who decides what information is and isn't secret. If the Commander in Chief determines that information classified as "Secret" is already known by an adversary, then the Commander in Chief can change that classification. 

And naturally, he makes that determination... how? "Hey Vlad, did you know Jimmy fingerblasted Jenny during maths yesterday? You didn't? Well, you do now, boy howdy!"
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#17
Quote by gerdner
The White House was ACCUSED of giving secrets to the Russians. There is a world of difference between an accusation and an actual fact. It is the Executive Branch of government who decides what information is and isn't secret. If the Commander in Chief determines that information classified as "Secret" is already known by an adversary, then the Commander in Chief can change that classification. 

He's referring to the meeting the president had with the Russians in the White House recently.  Remember, the one where he didn't allow any american journalists in the room, but rather a Russian journalist and then ended up bragging about classified information, and therefore revealing some, probably inadvertently.  He then made matters worse by revealing it was Isreali intel during a press conference.  He admitted the whole thing.  This happened like two weeks ago... 

To your point about the President having authority to declassify- what about  if, hypothetically speaking of course,  the  "Commander in Chief" didn't have the mental ability to help himself from revealing anything that comes to mind at a given moment during meetings or on social media...  then what? What do you do then ? Is his authority to declassify information a proper justification for negligence? 

 
#18
Quote by reverb66
He's referring to the meeting the president had with the Russians in the White House recently.  Remember, the one where he didn't allow any american journalists in the room, but rather a Russian journalist and then ended up bragging about classified information, and therefore revealing some, probably inadvertently.  He then made matters worse by revealing it was Isreali intel during a press conference.  He admitted the whole thing.  This happened like two weeks ago... 

To your point about the President having authority to declassify- what about  if, hypothetically speaking of course,  the  "Commander in Chief" didn't have the mental ability to help himself from revealing anything that comes to mind at a given moment during meetings or on social media...  then what? What do you do then ? Is his authority to declassify information a proper justification for negligence? 

 

I was referring to a meeting in which the President confirmed "secret" information that the Russians already knew through their own intelligence agencies. That's the one where he claimed it was the Israelis that was the source, even though it wasn't, because everyone would assume it was the Israelis anyway. And the Israelis were OK with that, because they understand how the game is played. 

It's just another one of those situations where the fake news media has to paint everything Donald Trump does in the worst possible light because they can't accept the fact that Hillary lost. And bleeding heart snowflakes can't accept it, either. So they believe any bullshit the fake news media throws at them, as long as it makes the President look bad. 
#19
Quote by gerdner
And bleeding heart snowflakes can't accept it, either. So they believe any bullshit the fake news media throws at them, as long as it makes the President look bad. 

I am watching from afar  - I can tell you, the Whitehouse  appears to be in shambles  - they can't even keep their own story straight.  Trump says one thing, his press corps says another, then they reverse course, then he reverses again. Then they appear like deer stuck in headlights when faced with the contradicting statements they themselves have been providing days earlier.  It's mind boggling - to everyone out here.  Even Fox news, who trumpets Republicans, pun intended,  has basically turned on them and appear dumbfounded by the deluge of contradictions and lies...which I never thought I would see in my lifetime. 

If anyone seems overly sensitive it's Trump himself -  he's a man-baby throwing tantrums.  So it always makes me chuckle when the alt-right starts throwing terms like snowflake around - You elected the biggest snowflake of them all - he blames everyone else for your problems - the Chinese, the French, Mexico, Europe, immigrants - everyone is taking advantage of the US  and are responsible for everything bad that's happening. Apparently the US is so weak that anyone can trick it into a bad deal. The Climate change Accord is another example, a voluntary agreement with terms dictated by the US itself is then attacked as being some sort of international ruse.  It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.  Ok, it's a bit hilarious...

 I would be comforted if Trump actually showed any signs that he understood anything about anything.

I suppose this what you get when you elect a reality TV star  as President.  

  
Last edited by reverb66 at Jun 6, 2017,
#20
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy
Quote by The_Blode
^ I'm sorry your highness I forgot that I'm subhuman. . .

Quote by ErikLensherr
Normani
Normani
Normies
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
#21
Hmm, I dunno, we'd probably be informed if that second scenario were true. I mean, it's not like every journalist is as loose lipped as the president these days.
🤔🤔🤔
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#22
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#23
Quote by EpiExplorer
Hmm, I dunno, we'd probably be informed if that second scenario were true. I mean, it's not like every journalist is as loose lipped as the president these days.
🤔🤔🤔


There is no credible evidence that President Trump gave any genuinely secret information to anyone.
#24
Quote by Evilnine


This reminds me of stories you'd hear about during the civil war. Before Gettysburg, for example, Lee had to rely on information spread by the northern press in order to know the movements of the army of the potomac.
Quote by Hal-Sephira

We all have the rights to be mad

So does you
#25
Quote by gerdner
This is a story about a snafu in World War II when a newspaper apparently spilled the beans about a military secret that could have caused the war in the Pacific Theater to last a lot longer, and cause a major increase in US casualties. 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-battle-of-midway-press-leak-20170605-story.html

So you have to wonder (at least I wonder) how many operational military secrets would modern day "journalists" reveal to our enemies in the name of "the peoples' right to know"? Does Freedom of the Press extend to revealing operational military secrets that could cost the lives of American military personnel? 


A thorough reading of that article would have told you that Nimitz' security was bad enough that the journalist who revealed the code break found the information written in the clear on a sheet of paper with a lot other scribbling on it in a very non-secure area on a supply vessel with no indication of secrecy or classification. The Roosevelt administration was steamed that the information appeared in a newspaper, but there was never any finding of treason. The Japanese never read the newspaper account wherein it was published, and they changed the code a short while later in a normal rotation.

Most feel that if an investigative reporter can unearth the information, so can a spy. In an age and at a time when privacy is non-existent and electronic snooping at a consumer level is pretty darned good, security agencies need to up their game. It's not just journalists who can get people killed -- the president himself is a blowhard who performs de facto declassification to show off what he's privy to. Unfortunately, he ignores protocol when he does so (checking with security before) because he's ignorant of the fact that simply having the information can direct people to where the information came from, including the original source -- and this can put the spotlight on whole teams of undercover workers who can be targeted and killed. Now THAT's treasonous.

For example -- in the WWII example above, the confirmation that the code had been broken came from a similar source. There were several streams of communication, and only one of them was NOT a decoy. In order to ascertain whether the focus was on Midway, the brass had Midway send, in the clear, a communication that their water distiller had broken down. When that information appeared in a code stream, it wasn't the information itself that was telling, but the code stream in which it appeared that gave the game away.
#26
Quote by gerdner
I was referring to a meeting in which the President confirmed "secret" information that the Russians already knew through their own intelligence agencies. That's the one where he claimed it was the Israelis that was the source, even though it wasn't, because everyone would assume it was the Israelis anyway. And the Israelis were OK with that, because they understand how the game is played. 

It's just another one of those situations where the fake news media has to paint everything Donald Trump does in the worst possible light because they can't accept the fact that Hillary lost. And bleeding heart snowflakes can't accept it, either. So they believe any bullshit the fake news media throws at them, as long as it makes the President look bad. 


Sorry, but that's Fox News throwing as much kitty litter as they can on the shitstorm, and you're believing every word. At least 25 international security agencies have gone on record as having said they have changed the way they interact with the US security agencies based on Trump's tendencies to blurt. The rest haven't bothered to go on record; they've simply shut down communications with the US, period.

If you're watching Fox News for credibility and believing that's real news, you need to rethink. I'll grant liberal-leaning sources like MSNBC are on the opposite side of the bell curve, but if we eliminate Fox News' collection of clowns and MSNBC as balancing one another, there has to be one moderately even-handed news source somewhere in between, doesn't there? Trump has trumped up (pun intended) ALL news sources other than Fox as being "fake" and the right wing snowflakes are sure there's a giant conspiracy among them all to undermine his presidency. In the old days we'd have considered that paranoia. But even Fox News polls show that more folks want Trump impeached than approve of his presidency, and if you include foreign news sources, the "conspiracy" is apparently planet-wide. He lies as a matter of course and at a recent meeting in South East Asia the question Mattis fielded more than any other was, "can we believe *anything* he says?" That makes it a bit tricky for allies to be allies. He routinely claims victories for himself when programs that have been developed deep back into the Obama adminstration finally come to fruition. The parade of items where he claims one thing and the fact checkers point out the lie has become endless, with each one distracting from the previous. He claims the Dems are blocking his appointees when the truth is, he hasn't done his job of appointing people, period. Jobs within the WH that should have been filled in January go wanting because he hasn't done the work, not because ANYONE is blocking him.

His people have done no better. Sessions is out of his mind and hasn't gotten around to replace the justices he's fired wholesale. Price refuses to answer questions about price-fixing and insider trading in the health industry that would have had most folks behind bars by now. They've trashed the current health care system by eliminating the things that make it work, but the only plan they can come up with has Republicans ducking town hall events claiming they're getting death threats. Meanwhile, California is moving toward its own health care system and may ignore any national plan altogether. But that doesn't do much for the Trump states that put him over the top, and it's those states that will be heavily represented among the 24 million who will lose health care altogether. Mitch McConnell, when asked about Trump's promise to "make coal great again" said, simply, "Uh, no." And he represents a coal state. The states that matter have absolutely no interest in burning coal for power, and the trend toward renewable sources has made them cheaper than fossil fuels. Even Trumpian states have moved heavily that direction. Most states plan to ignore Trump's removal from the Paris accord, and will continue to operate as if the accord were in place. Pretty much the only folks who back Trump in his Paris accord action are Regulation-Removing Republicans ("that damned thing was just in the way") and those who profit most from companies who use fossil fuels. It's not about creating jobs; it's about profiting from those companies.

Donald Trump needs NO one to make him look bad. This is a man who so thoroughly does the job on his own that the Dems, bleeding heart libtards, the great press conspiracy, the world-wide deep deep deep whatever can back off and watch the Republican Party, fragmented and self-serving as it is, panic and run for their political lives as at no time in their history, having been the simpering cowards and yes-men who gave up patriotism, heart, justice and the interests of the United States and the people they represent in return for getting their ancient and seriously out of date old man's agenda up for a vote. We will watch as Trump implodes and as the Republicans themselves either impeach or force him to resign before the country sweeps them out of office. There hasn't been a draining of the swamp, there won't be a "wall," health care will be left totally in ruins with no fix at hand, huge amends will have to be made with our allies. There will be no Muslim ban (note that the British terrorists came from None of the countries Trump has targeted).

And with any luck, those "non-college-educated old white men" who tipped the small red states into an electoral college victory will have figured out that just because a politician blathers some BS, it ain't necessarily true. If we have better luck, we'll get the Republican-mandated voter limitations (which have proven to eliminate zero voter fraud and which are targeted to benefit only republicans) removed so that everyone can legally vote. And if we really have good luck, we'll start the process of eliminating the Electoral College, which exists courtesy of Virginia slave owners who wanted to keep abolitionists in more populated northern states from upsetting their farming economy back when. And maybe then we'll have a truly democratic election where one person gets one vote and it actually counts.
#28
Journalism is treason when the Journalists involved expose something that should have been kept hidden from an enemy or places the country in danger because they reported on it. I get a feeling we run close to that line already if we have not already crossed it.
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#29
Quote by dspellman
A thorough reading of that article would have told you that Nimitz' security was bad enough that the journalist who revealed the code break found the information written in the clear on a sheet of paper with a lot other scribbling on it in a very non-secure area on a supply vessel with no indication of secrecy or classification.  The Roosevelt administration was steamed that the information appeared in a newspaper, but there was never any finding of treason. The Japanese never read the newspaper account wherein it was published, and they changed the code a short while later in a normal rotation.

Most feel that if an investigative reporter can unearth the information, so can a spy. In an age and at a time when privacy is non-existent and electronic snooping at a consumer level is pretty darned good, security agencies need to up their game. It's not just journalists who can get people killed -- the president himself is a blowhard who performs de facto declassification to show off what he's privy to. Unfortunately, he ignores protocol when he does so (checking with security before) because he's ignorant of the fact that simply having the information can direct people to where the information came from, including the original source -- and this can put the spotlight on whole teams of undercover workers who can be targeted and killed. Now THAT's treasonous.

For example -- in the WWII example above, the confirmation that the code had been broken came from a similar source. There were several streams of communication, and only one of them was NOT a decoy. In order to ascertain whether the focus was on Midway, the brass had Midway send, in the clear, a communication that their water distiller had broken down. When that information appeared in a code stream, it wasn't the information itself that was telling, but the code stream in which it appeared that gave the game away.

That's a typical 21st century snowflake's reaction. It wasn't the journalist's fault. Besides, it doesn't matter because we lucked out and the Japanese weren't monitoring our news media. 

And of course, you have to turn this into yet another diatribe against President Trump. You just can't accept the fact that the bitch LOST. 
#30
Quote by gerdner

And of course, you have to turn this into yet another diatribe against President Trump. You just can't accept the fact that the bitch LOST. 
well i mean trump got brought up before dspellman even came into the thread. at the very least he's just carrying conversation
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#31
Quote by Baby Joel
well i mean trump got brought up before dspellman even came into the thread. at the very least he's just carrying conversation

First, I was referring to ALL 21st century snowflakes as "you". There's no good second person plural pronoun in English to say "you" and indicate your using it as second person plural. But, to his discredit, sdpellman did leap onto the mere mention. If this was a football game, he'd have been flagged for piling on. 
#32
if it was a football game he'd have been flagged for playing a stupid game

it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#33
Quote by gerdner
That's a typical 21st century snowflake's reaction. It wasn't the journalist's fault. Besides, it doesn't matter because we lucked out and the Japanese weren't monitoring our news media. 

And of course, you have to turn this into yet another diatribe against President Trump. You just can't accept the fact that the bitch LOST. 


I actually don't care that Hillary lost. The right just can't get over the fact that they somehow WON an election -- it was as much a surprise to them as it was to everyone else. But now that they've won they have absolutely NO idea what to do with it and no idea how to govern. Fun to watch, in a macabre sort of way. And, of course, they assume that if you comment on every idiotic thing that Trump does it has something to do with November. The guy is a narcissistic maniac and a compulsive liar, right here, right now, and the whole planet knows it. And you're not denying it.

As for the journalist's "fault." It was the United States Government that made the determination that it wasn't his fault, not my 21st century snowflake opinion. You can whine about it all you like, but everyone who had anything to say about it is dead now, but none of them agree with you. And, luckily, Nimitz' error (it was HIS error, not the journalist's) didn't matter in the end.
#34
Quote by Mad-Mike_J83
Journalism is treason when the Journalists involved expose something that should have been kept hidden from an enemy or places the country in danger because they reported on it. I get a feeling we run close to that line already if we have not already crossed it.


That's not what makes something treason. "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." Opposition to the party in power is not treason (though since there weren't really opposition parties in the early days of the US, some argued that it was). Things that have been exposed by journalists are usually decried as treasonous when it makes the current party in power uncomfortable. But they're not. Revelation of classified documents isn't (it comes under a whole 'nother heading). If Trump actually did what some folks are claiming he did (colluding with the Russians or soliciting the Russians to interfere in the election), it would likely come closer than anything journalists are doing.
#35
This isn't a problem any longer, there are no more journalist, only propaganda distributors.
#36
Quote by gerdner
First, I was referring to ALL 21st century snowflakes as "you". There's no good second person plural pronoun in English to say "you" and indicate your using it as second person plural. But, to his discredit, sdpellman did leap onto the mere mention. If this was a football game, he'd have been flagged for piling on. 


I think "y'all snowflakes" would have worked.

I did leap onto the mere mention (it was a bit more than "mere" before I got here, however). You're correct in that.

What I do NOT understand is the complete and utter failure of the anti-snowflake crowd to provide intelligent and reasoned refutation to any of the points offered; in almost every case the word "snowflake" and often the word "libtard" gets strewn out there and somehow good old Hillary is dragged into the fray. I realize that there are good people who voted for Trump, and that they have legitimate concerns in their private lives that they hoped would be ameliorated by what he claimed he would do. There are also a lot of good folks who hated Hillary and who simply voted *against* her.

But defending Trump eliminates facts, truth and reason so completely that late-night comedians have to work hard to stay more absurd than what comes out of the WH. I feel terrible for Sean Spicer, who finds it increasingly difficult to look his colleagues in the eye while spouting some of this nonsense. What do you suppose his job prospects will be going forward? What will HIS legacy be?

I am NOT sure what to make of the wide range of Republicans who vituperatively and accurately voiced everything that the libtard liberals are currently saying about Trump *before* the election, but who have been biting their tongues in public and applauding politely as some horrendous misshapen executive order gets paraded around Trump's desk. The stress is obviously getting to them, when simple questions like, "What do YOU think about the notion that 24 million people will be without health care thanks to you?" elicit a body slam to the questioner. Questions about ethics? Questions about the 21 times Trump has been on his golf courses (as of May 6th) since becoming president? No president has escaped annoying questions, but none has tried so hard to de-legitimize the press, because when you need them, you *really* need them.

I think there *could* be a balanced, even-handed approach to a presidency with Trump at the desk. I think that he *could* do the work and fill the positions that need filling and make an effort to understand what the hell it is he's talking about ("Sir, we're in Israel, but that's STILL in the Middle East, you realize..."). He could. He might even work toward dealing *with* the opposition, both press and political. But this job is far tougher than he was prepared for, and he gives up a lot of his previous life and he's not willing to put in the work.

I think Howard Stern warned him. Trump thought "'Oh my God, I’m going to be president, and all these crowds love me, and it’s going to be fun.' No f--king idea the shitty life he was gonna have." Stern has famously said, "if he were Trump, he “would create a health crisis and resign over it.”

“He’s sitting in the f--ing White House dreaming about getting to Mar-a-Lago, where he was.”

He's experienced 100 plus days of this. No way HE wants to do this for another three plus years.
#37
Quote by 33db
This isn't a problem any longer, there are no more journalist, only propaganda distributors.


Actually, I'm not sure that you're far off. When TV journalism became Entertainment News and elections became about sound bites and now 140-character tweets, things went seriously off the tracks.