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#1
Hi all

I was hoping someone might be able to advise me. I'm looking at picking up an Epi Black Beauty and found one for around the £220 mark. I've attached a picture from the seller in the next post (I hope) and to my untrained eye it looks legit, but paranoia insists I ask people far more knowledgable than I in this instance! Does this look like a genuine Epi?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Pics:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s264/roundy07/E0FE2601-FFFC-4541-9A11-0E2CBB75CBEB_zpsv8nqvr4s.png
Last edited by roundy07 at Jun 9, 2017,
#2
There are no pictures that I can see.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#4
#6
Looks pretty legit to me. I used to have one of these, nothing stands out as being wrong or different.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#7
Can you get a clearer shot of the headstock (front and back)? Also possibly a shot of the serial number? 
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#8
Epiphones are copies.  Why would anybody want to counterfeit them? The profit is in counterfeiting a real Gibson Black Beauty. The only way to be 100% certain is to buy from a reputable source, but it's highly probable that it's a real Epi. 
#9
Quote by tommymc
Epiphones are copies.  Why would anybody want to counterfeit them? The profit is in counterfeiting a real Gibson Black Beauty. The only way to be 100% certain is to buy from a reputable source, but it's highly probable that it's a real Epi. 



I'm sorry, that's a terrible premise. Epiphones and a lot of lower end guitars get faked quite often and there is still profit in it considering some people (such as yourself) automatically assume that 'oh its a cheap guitar why would you fake it?' and would never even realize that a fake could be right in front of them. Nobody expects it and its easier to fool somebody. Epiphones, LTD guitars, Ibanez guitars and the like are quite commonly faked so asking a question like this is perfectly fair. 
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#10
H4T3BR33D3R  I've never heard of it, but if you know of instances of Epiphones being counterfeited, I'll consider myself corrected. 
#11
Quote by tommymc
H4T3BR33D3R  I've never heard of it, but if you know of instances of Epiphones being counterfeited, I'll consider myself corrected. 

There are years of forum posts, videos on the internet and examples of them all over the place for it to not be a thing. You don't even have to take my word for it. A simple google search would've yielded you the same results. 

There are threads dedicated to finding out if Epiphones are fakes or not on all the Les Paul forums as well and even this site has seen fakes before. 


Here's an example:






Could you tell if that was fake or not? Looks pretty real doesn't it?
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
Last edited by H4T3BR33D3R at Jun 9, 2017,
#13
Quote by tommymc
Epiphones are copies.  Why would anybody want to counterfeit them? The profit is in counterfeiting a real Gibson Black Beauty. The only way to be 100% certain is to buy from a reputable source, but it's highly probable that it's a real Epi. 


People fake epiphone all the time . Check out the website mylespaul . People post pictures of fakes all the time . Besides most of these fakes come from Chinese sellers at aliexpress and most of these sellers don't even pass them off as real .. they list them as no named electric guitars and don't show any pictures of the head stocks because they print epiphone and Gibson on them. They usually sell these fakes for around $200

It appears real OP. I have that same guitar I bought it for $200 , but it had some electrical problems . Not too hard to fix. Try it out well and make sure its all good . Sometimes they have really crappy frets and buzz
Last edited by jedigovnaUG at Jun 11, 2017,
#14
Quote by jedigovnaUG
People fake epiphone all the time . Check out the website mylespaul . People post pictures of fakes all the time . Besides most of these fakes come from Chinese sellers at aliexpress and most of these sellers don't even pass them off as real .. they list them as no named electric guitars and don't show any pictures of the head stocks because they print epiphone and Gibson on them. They usually sell these fakes for around $200

It appears real OP. I have that same guitar I bought it for $200 , but it had some electrical problems . Not too hard to fix. Try it out well and make sure its all good . Sometimes they have really crappy frets and buzz


You know its against the rules to link to counterfeit sites right?
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
Last edited by H4T3BR33D3R at Jun 11, 2017,
#17
Quote by pressureproject
It's odd that anyone would actually make a fake Epiphone.  

Why are 50$ bills more faked than 500$ bills

if you know the answer, you know why Fake Epis are megasellers, compared to Fake Gibsons
#18
Quote by tommymc
H4T3BR33D3R  I've never heard of it, but if you know of instances of Epiphones being counterfeited, I'll consider myself corrected. 


http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/the-fake-epiphone-thread-ii.31153/page-799#post-8239305

nearly 16.000 replies - more than 1.140.000 views
and it is part II

and we've saved the cash of countless buyers
Last edited by paruwi at Jun 11, 2017,
#19
Quote by jedigovnaUG
H4T3BR33D3R

Just making a point that fakes exist.


You can make the point without linking to it.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#20
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
You can make the point without linking to it.

It's more believable this way. I'm not encouraging people to buy them. But since it bothers you that much.. I'll remove it mam
#21
Quote by jedigovnaUG
It's more believable this way. I'm not encouraging people to buy them. But since it bothers you that much.. I'll remove it mam


Good
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#23
Quote by jedigovnaUG
H4T3BR33D3R  No problem mam


If youre trying to be insulting it would help to spell ma'am properly.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#24
H4T3BR33D3R By this point its been misspelled so often that it's an acceptable way of saying it. Either way it gets the point across. No insult intended. Ma'am
#25
Its good to know that you resort to insults just because I pointed out that it was against the rules to post links to illegal guitars.

Either way, have fun misspelling ma'am.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#27
Quote by tommymc
Epiphones are copies.  Why would anybody want to counterfeit them? The profit is in counterfeiting a real Gibson Black Beauty. The only way to be 100% certain is to buy from a reputable source, but it's highly probable that it's a real Epi. 

Quote by pressureproject
It's odd that anyone would actually make a fake Epiphone.  

The logic of "Why would anyone bother to fake an Epiphone?" Is the very reason why these fakes exist in the first place.

Nobody thinks anybody would bother faking one, therefore they assume that all Epiphones are real. People are therefore likely to assume that a fake is real.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#28
Quote by paruwi
Why are 50$ bills more faked than 500$ bills

if you know the answer, you know why Fake Epis are megasellers, compared to Fake Gibsons

Lower profit-per-unit, but higher volume sales.  I get it. 

So a "no-name" Chinese LP that would only sell for $100 on amazon can double the profit by printing Epiphone on the headstock. They could get much more by labeling it a Gibson, but the difference in quality would be more apparent and people are more suspicious.  Going with Epiphone increases the chance of pulling off the deception, thereby increasing sales.  I used to just laugh at the "Made in USA Gibsons" on ali baba. Made in USA and shipped from China for 1/4 the price...yeah, right. Believe that and I'll sell you a bridge in Brooklyn...... 

The reason we pay a little more for an Epiphone is because it's known to be consistent at a certain level of quality.  I'm too lazy to wallow through all the links, but how is the overall quality of the counterfeits? 
#29
Quote by tommymc
Lower profit-per-unit, but higher volume sales.  I get it. 
...........
but how is the overall quality of the counterfeits? 


just like fake $-bills
you'll never get what you pay for
#30
Quote by tommymc

The reason we pay a little more for an Epiphone is because it's known to be consistent at a certain level of quality.  I'm too lazy to wallow through all the links, but how is the overall quality of the counterfeits? 

Totally depends on the seller. Fakes vary greatly from being quarter way okay (but still not good) and others are totally unplayable.

It's a total minefield what you're going to get when you make an order. To the point that you might very well not get the guitar you ordered altogether.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#31
Epiphone make fakes Gibson my friend ,

Yes, it' s a fake 

         


Last edited by Gold_Concept at Jun 12, 2017,
#32
Quote by Gold_Concept
Epiphone make fakes Gibson my friend ,

Yes, it' s a fake 





I get that this is a joke, but it could also count as spam when you keep posting it in threads about identifying fake epiphones, as it contributes nothing of value to the discussion.

Epiphones are legitimate products of the same company that produces Gibsons, but there are counterfeits of both out there, and the reason why counterfeit Epiphones exist is because they are that much harder to spot and people are less likely to suspect that anyone would fake something where the fake isn't going to cost much less than the real deal - and also if it's the same price why would you suspect it? 

This counterfeit trade was especially problematic before Epiphone set up their own dedicated factory, and is what prompted them to do so, IIRC - guitars were being made to the same specification in different factories but certain details would vary, even on the legitimate ones, depending on where they were made, and that made it so hard to tell if they were fake or not. Combine that with the fact that some factories producing legitimate epiphones were also simultaneously producing fakes and it doesn't take much thought to realise the extent of the problem - as much as people doubt that fake Epis exist "because they are already copies", fake Epis are probably the most prolific counterfeit instruments out there.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#34
Quote by Gold_Concept
Epiphone make fakes Gibson my friend ,

Yes, it' s a fake 





Still trolling the forums with stolen pics from the web ?

Do you still own your fake Epi ?
Last edited by paruwi at Jun 12, 2017,
#35
Quote by Blompcube
I get that this is a joke, but it could also count as spam when you keep posting it in threads about identifying fake epiphones, as it contributes nothing of value to the discussion.

Epiphones are legitimate products of the same company that produces Gibsons, but there are counterfeits of both out there, and the reason why counterfeit Epiphones exist is because they are that much harder to spot and people are less likely to suspect that anyone would fake something where the fake isn't going to cost much less than the real deal - and also if it's the same price why would you suspect it? 

This counterfeit trade was especially problematic before Epiphone set up their own dedicated factory, and is what prompted them to do so, IIRC - guitars were being made to the same specification in different factories but certain details would vary, even on the legitimate ones, depending on where they were made, and that made it so hard to tell if they were fake or not. Combine that with the fact that some factories producing legitimate epiphones were also simultaneously producing fakes and it doesn't take much thought to realise the extent of the problem - as much as people doubt that fake Epis exist "because they are already copies", fake Epis are probably the most prolific counterfeit instruments out there.


Got 'im

Quote by paruwi
Still trolling the forums with stolen pics from the web ?

Do you still own your fake Epi ?


×2
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#36
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Totally depends on the seller. Fakes vary greatly from being quarter way okay (but still not good) and others are totally unplayable.

It's a total minefield what you're going to get when you make an order. To the point that you might very well not get the guitar you ordered altogether.

This is why I discourage buying any guitar without trying it first.  The smart thing for the OP to do is try the guitar in question. If it's mail-order from an un-trusted seller, he's taking a risk even if it's not counterfeit. OTOH, other than the ethical aspects of supporting counterfeits, if the OP tries the guitar and it meets the standards you expect from Epiphone (playability, tone, quality of build) how much does the nameplate matter? 

I know this is a little different, but we paid $5k (!) to a reputable dealer for a violin for my daughter. The instrument has labels indicating a 1930's date and Italian builder which the dealer  felt were fake.  From the construction, the dealer attributes the violin to a German workshop and earlier 1920's date.  Ultimately, it doesn't matter because the quality and tone speak for themselves.  The value has been verified by a different assessor.  
#37
Quote by tommymc
This is why I discourage buying any guitar without trying it first.  

What if you want to order a custom shop Carvin but you live in Venezuela?

Trying an instrument before buying it is a luxury most people in the world can't afford.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#38
That still doesn't change the fact that it's better to try it out first if you have the chance to.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#39
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
That still doesn't change the fact that it's better to try it out first if you have the chance to.

Cannot agree more. But my point is that realistically, most people in the world just don't have that opportunity.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#40
Sure but I'm kind of wondering what any of it has to do with identifying the Epiphone as real or not (FWIW I think its probably real but I'd want more pictures).
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
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