#1
I've had jvm410h for about half a year and I've concluded that this is a terrible buzz machine.

I actually prefer playing on my spider IV 150w as its effects sound better in my opinion at least. A comparison: I bought a Boss DD3 delay pedal for the JVM. Either I can't adjust it right or it sounds terrible with gain and distorted sound. Spider IV has this one preset (it has presets for many songs) that I like to use named "Holy wars solo" has delay and distortion mixed together. It sounds good with the spider IV. However if I tried to set the JVM and the DD3 to sound the same, it'd end up sounding like shit.

I can't even understand how Joe Satriani is able to get sounds such as in Always with me always with you, Shine on American Dreamer, a door into summer, Butterfly and Zebra, In My Pocket and (especially) Made of Tears with the JVM.

Soft tones, pure sound. How is it even possible to achieve them with this buzz machine? Should I be buying more effects for the jvm? Why does a spider iv amp sound softer and overall better?
Last edited by Billie_J at Jun 10, 2017,
#3
I'd be curious how you're dialing it in.  Because when I played one I made it sound pretty damned good.  Certainly good enough to make a Spider sound like the toy that it is. 

The JVM is an amp that gets a lot of flak from some people, but others really like it.  I was in a Guitar Center one day comparing high gain heads and went through a bunch of them (already had a 6505+ at that point).  Well, to make a long story short, after playing various Mesas, an EVH 5150 III, Oranges, and several others, the 6505 remained my favorite high gain tone but the JVM came in second.  This was without any pedals, fwiw.

I think the JVM gets criticized by people who are expecting "JCM 800 2203" tone -- but it's just not designed that way.  It is meant to be a more modern sounding amp that doesn't need to be run at 11 to sound its best.  I think you need to spend some time dialing it in, because I didn't hear any ridiculous fizz or buzzing when I played one.  Also, never underestimate the power of a good EQ pedal in your effects loop.  My 6505s are pretty fizzy amps (I might add that the fizz completely disappears in a live setting or a band mix -- it only really bothers me at home).  With an EQ pedal, you can basically make fizz disappear by dialing out the highest highs.  I think that if more people tried an EQ like the MXR 10-band, they wouldn't go through so many amps in search of their ideal tone.

My $.02
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#4
Are you running the delay out front or in the loop ? Agree that you need to rethink settings
#5
what speakers are you using? are you using a boost up front?
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#6
Quote by KailM
Also, never underestimate the power of a good EQ pedal in your effects loop.  My 6505s are pretty fizzy amps (I might add that the fizz completely disappears in a live setting or a band mix -- it only really bothers me at home).  With an EQ pedal, you can basically make fizz disappear by dialing out the highest highs.  I think that if more people tried an EQ like the MXR 10-band, they wouldn't go through so many amps in search of their ideal tone.

My $.02

If I was the POTUS, I would make it a law that every guitar amp comes with a built-in MXR 10-band. Can't imagine my life as a guitar player without one.
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#7
I'm trying to figure out if that's more or less crazy than some of the laws thought up by the current POTUS.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#8
Quote by Dave_Mc
I'm trying to figure out if that's more or less crazy than some of the laws thought up by the current POTUS.

Maybe it isn't in law because it makes too much sense.
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#9
i have never been a fan of the JVM's. and yes,  i have used them. i would tend to say they are a little fizzy. i agree that it is definitely not a 2203.

i prefer the JSX to the JVM, and its a third of the price on the used market. less fizzy, IMO better cleans. and IMO more flexible.

if you want modded marshall 2203 stuff, get a splawn. 

with the delay, as others have mentioned it, where are you sticking the delay pedal? it should be in the loop and NOT out front.
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#10
I have had a JVM 410h for about a year now. I have spent alot of time trying to get the od channels to sound decent and quite frankly have given up. XXX II is much easier to get a good sounding gain out of for sure. Not saying its a complete waste. The crunch channel is ok and handles a 808 nicely. Clean is meh. Shame cause it has a lot of modes to fuck with and 2 separate power channels which is real cool. I am curious about the newer DSL.
#11
Eh, I've always used it (the dd3) through the front input jack

Please do enlighten me as I don't seem to be doing it right

And to earlier questions I'm using Marshall MR1960AV

I honestly have no idea how the fx loop works. Behind the JVM I can see the return and the Send Jack. Next to them is a button with options "+4dBu and -10dBV" and then the mix knob with the dry and the wet side. It's extremely annoying that the manual doesn't explain the fx loop or it does but in Hebrew.
Last edited by Billie_J at Jun 11, 2017,
#12
^^^Yeah, that's probably a big part of your problem, especially if you're running delay most of the time.  That's not to say that a delay pedal CAN'T work up front of the amp; it's just not ideal.  What an effects loop does is allow you to place effects into the circuit AFTER the signal has already been distorted in the preamp.    

If you run effects like reverb, delay, or other time-based effects directly into the amp, it's going to take all of that extra signal and amplify and add gain to every nuance that it sees.  So if you've got a bunch of repeats dialed-in on a delay pedal, for example, it's going to add distortion to all of them and pretty soon they start to stack up and sound like a muddy mess.  It can work, but you have to use much more conservative settings and ideally will probably never get the sound you're looking for.  In the effects loop, you can get pretty crazy with delay settings and yet it'll still come out sounding clear and not add any distortion or muddiness to your sound.  I would think you could find a manual online for your JVM or at least find a few Youtube videos to watch.  The "mix" knob is probably just a control for how much you want the overall sound of all your effects in the loop to come through in your sound.  So say you're playing and you've got reverb, delay, chorus, and whatnot all going at the same time, and together they're a little too intense -- you could simply back off on your "mix" knob and more of the unaffected signal would come through, while muting the effected signal a bit.
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#13
Any idea what the 4dBu and 10dBV might mean and does it matter which one I use?
#14
Quote by Billie_J
Eh, I've always used it (the dd3) through the front input jack

Please do enlighten me as I don't seem to be doing it right

And to earlier questions I'm using Marshall MR1960AV

I honestly have no idea how the fx loop works. Behind the JVM I can see the return and the Send Jack. Next to them is a button with options "+4dBu and -10dBV" and then the mix knob with the dry and the wet side. It's extremely annoying that the manual doesn't explain the fx loop or it does but in Hebrew.

If you're putting the delay in the front of the amp then you're definitely doing it wrong.

You nearly always want to have any delay pedals in the effects loop. The effects loop is a section of the amp between the preamp and the power section that allows you to run effects after the preamp gain stages. This is important for certain effects, as many effects don't sound very good when they're being distorted by the preamp. By putting them after the preamp, the distortion has already taken place before the pedal affects the signal. Thus your effects aren't all distorted and shitty sounding.

It sounds to me from the controls you're describing that your JVM has a parallel effects loop. A parallel effects loop, as the name implies, can be run in parallel with the unaffected signal from the preamp. The advantage this has is it gives you control over how much of the preamp signal is being coloured by the effects in the effects loop. In simple terms, think of it as a master volume for all of your effects. If you turn the mix knob all the way up, what you're doing is essentially making the amp behave like it has a series effects loop, one that when the effects loop is active, ALL of the guitar signal passes through the effects loop and none of it is bypassed. The inverse is true if you turn the mix knob all the way down. It's just a convenient way to adjust the level of all your effects all at once without having to adjust all the levels of your pedals individually.
Quote by Billie_J
Any idea what the 4dBu and 10dBV might mean and does it matter which one I use?

I'm not entirely sure, but it sounds like a switchable buffer for your effects loop.
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#15
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
If you're putting the delay in the front of the amp then you're definitely doing it wrong.

You nearly always want to have any delay pedals in the effects loop. The effects loop is a section of the amp between the preamp and the power section that allows you to run effects after the preamp gain stages. This is important for certain effects, as many effects don't sound very good when they're being distorted by the preamp. By putting them after the preamp, the distortion has already taken place before the pedal affects the signal. Thus your effects aren't all distorted and shitty sounding.

It sounds to me from the controls you're describing that your JVM has a parallel effects loop. A parallel effects loop, as the name implies, can be run in parallel with the unaffected signal from the preamp. The advantage this has is it gives you control over how much of the preamp signal is being coloured by the effects in the effects loop. In simple terms, think of it as a master volume for all of your effects. If you turn the mix knob all the way up, what you're doing is essentially making the amp behave like it has a series effects loop, one that when the effects loop is active, ALL of the guitar signal passes through the effects loop and none of it is bypassed. The inverse is true if you turn the mix knob all the way down. It's just a convenient way to adjust the level of all your effects all at once without having to adjust all the levels of your pedals individually.

I'm not entirely sure, but it sounds like a switchable buffer for your effects loop.


I see but before I do anything stupid I'll ask something.. stupid(?).. So what I'll do now is plug a cable from Send to the pedal's output and from the input to return? And also (never understood what it's supposed to do) what for is the direct out plug in the pedal?

And another question. I heard of "kill dry" which has something to do with fx loop. I have no idea where such an option is and what the hell it actually is and whether I should use it or not. In other words, what are the necessary actions I have to do so I don't break something?
#16
Quote by Billie_J
I see but before I do anything stupid I'll ask something.. stupid(?).. So what I'll do now is plug a cable from Send to the pedal's output and from the input to return? What is the logic in that? The signal itself travels from the input to the output And from there to the amp (if I'm not mistaken). So what is the logic that the amp sends a signal to the output and the pedal sends it from the input to the return? And also (never understood what it's supposed to do) what for is the direct out plug in the pedal?

And another question. I heard of "kill dry" which has something to do with fx loop. I have no idea where such an option is and what the hell it actually is and whether I should use it or not. In other words, what are the necessary actions I have to do so I don't break something?


Ps. Accidentally quoted myself when I meant to edit my reply
#17
I had a JVM for a few years and never got a decent sound out of it, even with speaker swaps, retubing, and setting changes. It's just got a more modern tone, and not that classic Marshall sound.
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#18
Quote by Billie_J
I see but before I do anything stupid I'll ask something.. stupid(?).. So what I'll do now is plug a cable from Send to the pedal's output and from the input to return? And also (never understood what it's supposed to do) what for is the direct out plug in the pedal?

Output of the effects loop is the send. Input of the effects loop is the return. You want the output of all your effects to go to the return of the effects loop. Therefore the send goes to the input of your effects.

Direct out plug in the pedal? Not sure what you mean. Are you referring to the amp's direct out? That output gives you the amplifier's raw preamp signal, which is useful if you want to use the power section from another amplifier, or if you want to reamp the preamp through something like an amp sim. It's got nothing to do with your effects dude.
And another question. I heard of "kill dry" which has something to do with fx loop. I have no idea where such an option is and what the hell it actually is and whether I should use it or not. In other words, what are the necessary actions I have to do so I don't break something?

Honestly, the only way you're going to actually break something is if you do something really stupid like plugging an 18V power supply into a 9V pedal, or plugging your amp's speaker out into one of your pedals.

'Kill dry' is a trendy term use to describe what happens when you turn your effects loop mix knob all the way up, thus making the effects loop signal 100% 'wet'. The difference is that you're mechanically disconnecting the trace that allows the signal to bypass the effects loop. This guarantees that absolutely 100% of the amp's signal will pass through the effects loop.

With kill-dry being active, you're making your effects loop function electronically identically to a series loop.
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#19
Output of the effects loop is the send. Input of the effects loop is the return. You want the output of all your effects to go to the return of the effects loop. Therefore the send goes to the input of your effects.


I'm confused because all the pictures I've seen clearly show that the order is: Send-》 pedal's output and then pedal's input-》 Return

Ps. I think I just misunderstood what you said (facepalm for me) and everything seems to bee good to go.

One last question. If I plugged the cables wrong for example the input of the pedal to send, would it cause something else than the effect not working?
#20
You might get very low output through the amp depending on your mix, it won't mess anything up though.

The send should DEFINITELY go to the input of your pedal, and the return to the output. I don't know what picture you've seen, but this is the correct way to do it.
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#21
I saw Satriani using his version of that amp about a year ago and did not sound good - I had seen him a few times live before and his tone was great, but this time it was bad, really bad. 

Now, it may not be the amp but rather the settings - can you dial the amp loud enough top hit it's sweetspot in the room you play in? Maybe that's the problem. 
#23
Quote by diabolical
I don't know if anyone asked this, but when was the last change of tubes on this amp?

There's no way a JVM would sound worse than a Spider, it has to be user error or failing tubes.

Agreed.  I spent about a half hour with a JVM 210 this afternoon and got all kinds of excellent tones.  I honestly can't understand why people hate on them so much.  Definitely the best amp I played in the store today.
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#24
Quote by KailM
Agreed.  I spent about a half hour with a JVM 210 this afternoon and got all kinds of excellent tones.  I honestly can't understand why people hate on them so much.  Definitely the best amp I played in the store today.


what are you thoughts on a JVM in comparison to a JSX? 

i know they are different, but from my experience with my JSX (had it for a few years and love it) and a few runthroughs with JVMs, everything the JVM could do the JSX could do better for a fraction of the price on the used market.
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#25
Quote by trashedlostfdup
what are you thoughts on a JVM in comparison to a JSX? 

i know they are different, but from my experience with my JSX (had it for a few years and love it) and a few runthroughs with JVMs, everything the JVM could do the JSX could do better for a fraction of the price on the used market.

For the price, I would get a JSX and never look back.  It's been a long time since ive played one, but I remember the cleans being quite amazing-- better than the JVM even.  The brutal tones were almost on par with a 5150 which remains my all-time favorite high gain tone.  Unfortunately I didn't spend much time with the JSX's mid gain tones so I can't compare.  The Marshall has a his upper mid richness though that I really like, and haven't really quite heard in other amps.  The JVM I played yesterday was $1000, which seemed like a good deal to me.
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#26
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


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2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
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---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#27
JSX is an amazing amp, especially for what it used to go for used. They're getting a bit long in the tooth now though, but still might be worth a shot.
The JVM is not a bad amp but for what they want for it, certainly bit overpriced, but isn't that always the case with Marshall?
#28
diabolical

I bought it brand new about 0.7 years ago. I doubt it's broken or anything just personal preference and getting used to the tone. And I finally used the fx loop and it sounded 1000000 times better than plugging the pedal in front.