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#1
Affirmative action also known as Positive Discrimination is an action or policy favouring those who tend to suffer from discrimination, especially in relation to employment or education; positive discrimination. 

personally i think it's a stupid idea surely all discrimination is negative so how can favouring people of ethnic backgrounds be considered non discriminatory, surely choosing people based on their skills, merits and experience regardless of background is a fairer and more ethical approach to inequality.
#2
No.
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#4
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personally i think it's a stupid idea
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#5
Violence has a way of working kinks out in a system. Slow-violence, immediate-violence, it doesn't matter. Words/dialog will fall into place after the punches are thrown. That's all the crowd is looking for. Put on a good show.
#6
Quote by kalypto
Affirmative action also known as Positive Discrimination is an action or policy favouring those who tend to suffer from discrimination, especially in relation to employment or education; positive discrimination. 

personally i think it's a stupid idea surely all discrimination is negative so how can favouring people of ethnic backgrounds be considered non discriminatory, surely choosing people based on their skills, merits and experience regardless of background is a fairer and more ethical approach to inequality.

Look at the stats, "does it work?" is better than a personal opinion.
#7
I agree that it's stupid

Equal opportunities forms on job applications for example always annoy me. They say it won't have any effect on the application, but if they really don't care, why are they asking? I like to fill them in wrong or put "prefer not to say" on everything just to be annoying.
I have nothing important to say
#8
it's a good idea in theory, but has become less and less effective much like most legislation because apparently no body of government has figured out that a lot of complex legislation can't be static. shit needs to be reviewed on the regular.

nothing works anyway. burn it down, knock it over, start again.
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#9
in one sense bringing people up after long periods of oppression or low positive liberty might give people a head start and force integration and/or normalise a particular situation or set of values that was previously treated with said oppressive actions.

in another sense leaving that going for long periods of time, or making it non-contextual or otherwise losing the emphasis of punching up and instead becoming pandering or tokenism might actually begin to undo that and create resentment

there you go pick a side we only have sides haven't you heard politics is like a coin?
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#10
I see how it can be abused, but I do think that groups that have been historically discriminated against need to have some way of elbowing their way into higher education and livable wage positions. However, the current system is flawed enough it needs revision, and this is coming from someone who likely has benefited from it at some point.
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#11
Quote by Banjocal
in one sense bringing people up after long periods of oppression or low positive liberty might give people a head start and force integration and/or normalise a particular situation or set of values that was previously treated with said oppressive actions.

in another sense leaving that going for long periods of time, or making it non-contextual or otherwise losing the emphasis of punching up and instead becoming pandering or tokenism might actually begin to undo that and create resentment

there you go pick a side we only have sides haven't you heard politics is like a coin?

Have you been drinking?
#12
The underlying subtext of affirmative action to the historically disadvantaged is:

I don't expect as much from you as everyone else.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#13
Quote by Xiaoxi
The underlying subtext of affirmative action to the historically disadvantaged is:

I don't expect as much from you as everyone else.

That's the moneyshot right there.

Accepting affirmative action is just like begging, "Ohh please, daddy, shoot more on me, please!!" If you can't see that illustration in your mind, then all is lost.
#15
Quote by Diamond Dave
affirmative action is bullshit.

sure, support the disadvantaged - but the quota-filling social constructionist approach is so absurd I'm surprised its ever been allowed to happen.

Just to be clear- quotas are illegal, at least in the US. Affirmative action has sort of lost its meaning and has become a nebulous concept/umbrella term.
Free Ali
#16
Quote by chrismendiola
Just to be clear- quotas are illegal

*cough*bullshit-stacked-a-mile-high-*cough*-police-*cough*

Damn... allergies...
#17
Yep

IMO "positive discrimination" should only occur outside of the system that is bound to it. If you want an underpriviledged group to get more jobs, don't introduce positive discrimination in the job interviews themselves (e.g making interviews less demanding and less intense for that group), but work outside that system to help that group get more jobs. E.g, create supportive groups that help underpriviledge groups with their job interviews for free. That might be stuff like helping them find more job interviews, help them craft a good resume, help them find out how to best go into that interview and answer questions, help them finding out jobs that suit them more, etc.

Same with others. Do you want more women in Congress? Then don't introduce a quota, but act outside that system to help women get into politics and into those positions of power, with outside support groups, giving them more information, or whatever not.

Of course, this argument only works if there is no negative discrimination and we are only arguing whether we should have positive discrimination or a perfectly egalitarian and just system. If there is already negative discrimination in any of those systems (politics, job interviews, etc), then it is imperative to remove that discrimination before even getting into this argument.
#18
Diversity in the work place is always good so if there's literally nothing else separating two candidates then I'd go for the one that'd increase the diversity of the workplace. It's always good to have more ways of thinking in a team.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#19
Quote by gonzaw
Yep

IMO "positive discrimination" should only occur outside of the system that is bound to it. If you want an underpriviledged group to get more jobs, don't introduce positive discrimination in the job interviews themselves (e.g making interviews less demanding and less intense for that group), but work outside that system to help that group get more jobs. E.g, create supportive groups that help underpriviledge groups with their job interviews for free. That might be stuff like helping them find more job interviews, help them craft a good resume, help them find out how to best go into that interview and answer questions, help them finding out jobs that suit them more, etc.

Same with others. Do you want more women in Congress? Then don't introduce a quota, but act outside that system to help women get into politics and into those positions of power, with outside support groups, giving them more information, or whatever not.

Of course, this argument only works if there is no negative discrimination and we are only arguing whether we should have positive discrimination or a perfectly egalitarian and just system. If there is already negative discrimination in any of those systems (politics, job interviews, etc), then it is imperative to remove that discrimination before even getting into this argument.

Aka take action that is really unlikely to change things.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#20
I might start claiming to be of gypsy decent so I get more job interviews

It's shit because I am a minority, just not one that people care about. If you're gay you get loads of oppression points, being bi just gets you weird looks/ignored if you're lucky
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#21
my brother, who is a 4.0 GPA chemical engineering student, experienced something like this:

basically, he was invited to a 2 hour event hosted by his college where they basically went through all of the different scholarships they had for students. he said that out of all of the scholarships, there were only 2 or 3 that he could be a potential applicant for- the rest were for minorities, transfer students, and women. he busts his ass studying all day, basically having no social life + tutoring his classmates who don't study enough, yet he's the one who's getting shit on while the others are getting handouts. yes, it is discriminatory and fucking ludicrous, sorry PC culture.
#22
Quote by Dregen
my brother, who is a 4.0 GPA chemical engineering student, experienced something like this:

basically, he was invited to a 2 hour event hosted by his college where they basically went through all of the different scholarships they had for students. he said that out of all of the scholarships, there were only 2 or 3 that he could be a potential applicant for- the rest were for minorities, transfer students, and women. he busts his ass studying all day, basically having no social life + tutoring his classmates who don't study enough, yet he's the one who's getting shit on while the others are getting handouts. yes, it is discriminatory and fucking ludicrous, sorry PC culture.
maybe your brother isn't all that impressive after all?

seriously though, sacrificing a personal life in the attempt to make yourself appear better on paper is poop
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#23
jakesmellspoo 

his professors are impressed with him, he's aced a class with a 40-50% fail rate

he's applying for RA and they're heavily considering him as an applicant

he plans to get into a paid tutor program next semester

he was one of the two in his college to get accepted to a summer cancer research program in Texas

i was going to include all of this information in my previous post but abandoned my cynicism for just once expecting some understanding lmao.
Last edited by Dregen at Jun 18, 2017,
#24
Quote by Dregen
abandoned my cynicism for just once expecting some understanding lmao.

And what did you get.
#26
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Diversity in the work place is always good so if there's literally nothing else separating two candidates then I'd go for the one that'd increase the diversity of the workplace. It's always good to have more ways of thinking in a team.

So you're biased and racist, if there's "literally nothing else separating" then I will pick my favorite gender or skin color.

For the record "more ways of thinking" implies intellectual diversity, an idea that is the exact opposite of your usual ranting in threads.
It's funny, because you are exactly the problem you rail against.
#27
Quote by Dregen
33db 

UG is what i got

Naw, the pit trolls are what you got, UG is much more than the pit.
#28
Quote by Dregen
jakesmellspoo 

his professors are impressed with him, he's aced a class with a 40-50% fail rate

he's applying for RA and they're heavily considering him as an applicant

he plans to get into a paid tutor program next semester

he was one of the two in his college to get accepted to a summer cancer research program in Texas

i was going to include all of this information in my previous post but abandoned my cynicism for just once expecting some understanding lmao.
you know i was half joking/being a dick right?

i just don't think you should go about anything expecting something in return. (unless it's explicitly stated like a contract or employment, etc) you'll just end up disappointed.

hope for the best, expect the worst

i also don't like to place the blame on or direct my resentment toward the people receiving "handouts" the issue lies with the system itself and not just when it comes to affirmative action and scholarships if we're talking specifically about college/university.
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#29
Quote by 33db
So you're biased and racist, if there's "literally nothing else separating" then I will pick my favorite gender or skin color.

For the record "more ways of thinking" implies intellectual diversity, an idea that is the exact opposite of your usual ranting in threads.
It's funny, because you are exactly the problem you rail against.


I interpreted his post a bit differently. if I'm in an organization full of people who look and think exactly as I do that would not foster diversity, would it? White men are typically not thought of as a minority group but in this instance they would be and I would want to hire more of them. A group comprised of the same minority may add diversity to other groups that are different from it but it is not inherently diverse.

I think you just wanted a reason to say that etr is biased and racist.
cat
#30
Quote by guitarxo
I interpreted his post a bit differently. if I'm in an organization full of people who look and think exactly as I do that would not foster diversity, would it? White men are typically not thought of as a minority group but in this instance they would be and I would want to hire more of them. A group comprised of the same minority may add diversity to other groups that are different from it but it is not inherently diverse.

I think you just wanted a reason to say that etr is biased and racist.


Exactly. We were recently interviewing for an intern position at my company for the technical team. I wasn't making any of the decisions but I would have liked for a woman to have got the role just so we had some more diverse thinking because the technical team currently 1 woman and about 9 white men. If the candidates are technically equal then I don't think there's any harm in getting someone who's "diverse" in over someone who would just bolster the status quo.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#31
Quote by guitarxo
I interpreted his post a bit differently. if I'm in an organization full of people who look and think exactly as I do that would not foster diversity, would it? White men are typically not thought of as a minority group but in this instance they would be and I would want to hire more of them. A group comprised of the same minority may add diversity to other groups that are different from it but it is not inherently diverse.

I think you just wanted a reason to say that etr is biased and racist.

Lets look at what was posted
Diversity in the work place is always good so if there's literally nothing else separating two candidates then I'd go for the one that'd increase the diversity of the workplace.

A reason? *laugh* The cumulative evidence of ETR"s past post are hard evidence of my statement.
In today's language "diversity" means skin color and sex (or gender) so by saying that "literally nothing else separating two candidates" that implies no further education or experience, that the candidates are "equal" in those terms.

So you're wrong, and you should know this if you been reading any of its post in the past.
#32
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Exactly. We were recently interviewing for an intern position at my company for the technical team. I wasn't making any of the decisions but I would have liked for a woman to have got the role just so we had some more diverse thinking because the technical team currently 1 woman and about 9 white men. If the candidates are technically equal then I don't think there's any harm in getting someone who's "diverse" in over someone who would just bolster the status quo.

^this is what is known as bias, there is no valuation of what the female brings to the table other than she is female, somehow implying that what she thinks is different and of value.

But there is no data in the decision to support this, only the bias of female over male.
#33
Quote by 33db
^this is what is known as bias, there is no valuation of what the female brings to the table other than she is female, somehow implying that what she thinks is different and of value.

But there is no data in the decision to support this, only the bias of female over male.


There's always a bias in when you're hiring one person over others. Do you propose candidates are just randomly selected and placed into jobs?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#34
Quote by EndTheRapture51
There's always a bias in when you're hiring one person over others. Do you propose candidates are just randomly selected and placed into jobs?

No, you have them compete for the position.

Or just flip a fucking coin.
But your company is likely forced by politics to have x number of females/minorities so the point is moot, I just wanted to point out what everyone should already know about you.
And in fact, what you admitted about yourself in previous post. "I may be angry and hateful" and "I wish all Trump supporters would die" that sort of thing, you don't believe in true diversity at all.
#35
Quote by 33db
No, you have them compete for the position.

Or just flip a fucking coin.
But your company is likely forced by politics to have x number of females/minorities so the point is moot, I just wanted to point out what everyone should already know about you.
And in fact, what you admitted about yourself in previous post. "I may be angry and hateful" and "I wish all Trump supporters would die" that sort of thing, you don't believe in true diversity at all.


As long as there is a human making a recruitment decision there is going to be bias. White people will pick other white people etc. You must have missed the part where I said "if there's literally nothing else separating two candidates". I also mentioned diversity instead of picking a woman or a black person. Looks like you're just racist mate.

Also how long are you going to keep bringing up that quote? You're getting incredibly pathetic now. You weren't even a member of the forum when that post was made. Who's multi are you?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#36
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Also how long are you going to keep bringing up that quote? You're getting incredibly pathetic now. You weren't even a member of the forum when that post was made. Who's multi are you?


You can't deflect from what you are.

White people will pick other white people etc

^The definition of racism, you're blind to yourself.
#37
You are a fucking idiot

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#39
Quote by kalypto
why not


because the thread turned into the tire fire I thought it would
Quote by JustRooster
That's a shamanic incantation of truth if I ever heard one.
#40
Quote by Aeolian Harmony
because the thread turned into the tire fire I thought it would

but it's only just getting started come on jump in it's nice and warm
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