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#1
a couple of days ago an entire tower of council flats in london lit completely on fire. many of the people dead will never be identified. the death toll was at first around 7 - 20 people, which is ridiculous given the size of the tower:



this shouldn't be seen as a tragedy, but rather as a crime: the tower was not equipped with proper fire-prevention, and even worse it was completely refurbished with a flammable plastic material which made it a deathtrap since it lit up like a torch in 15 minutes. the material is illegal in the US, and it may even be illegal in the UK. it was chosen in preference to fire-resistant cladding because it was cheaper. many richer properties were being developed in the area and they wanted the block to be less of an 'eyesore'



the survivors are being paid £5500 each and are being allocated homes across London, some hundreds of miles away, some in other high-rise blocks.
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#2
It's gonna be over 100. Worst civilian loss of life since WW2 in our country. Horrible times.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car

bring back UG classic
#3
it's a nightmare
I could barely watch on news when survivors were talking about missing family
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#4
Horrible tragedy. 5500 seems like a pathetic sum to people that lost everything.
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#5
can't see this in any other context than as a consequence of a society and series of governments that have done nothing for inequality
#7
Quote by 33db
Arson?



this guy who lives opposite the grenfell also claims to have seen the fire emerging from the outside
Click here to hear my BOB DYLAN (Blowing in the Wind) out right now May 2k17
#8
Quote by laid-to-waste


this guy who lives opposite the grenfell also claims to have seen the fire emerging from the outside

The thing is, the construction of the cladding essentially makes it a chimney with a flue(well, a large system of chimneys and flues) at the bottom; even a relatively small internal fire - in the right place to spread to the cladding through ducting - would produce a very fast spreading, intense fire on the outside.
Quote by Diemon Dave
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#9
Quote by smb
can't see this in any other context than as a consequence of a society and series of governments that have done nothing for inequality

That really says more about you than anything occurring in reality.

Aside from the possibility of arson sometimes shit just happens, and "inequality" exist for a reason, life is not equal, and it never will be.
#10
Quote by 33db
That really says more about you than anything occurring in reality.

Aside from the possibility of arson sometimes shit just happens, and "inequality" exist for a reason, life is not equal, and it never will be.

You're very keen on that, aren't you?
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#11
Quote by 33db
That really says more about you than anything occurring in reality.

Aside from the possibility of arson sometimes shit just happens, and "inequality" exist for a reason, life is not equal, and it never will be.


seeing as you have demonstrated you have literally no understanding of the situation do you fancy shutting the fuck up on this issue?

it was entirely preventable. do some reading before making more idiot comments.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car

bring back UG classic
#12
Quote by slapsymcdougal
You're very keen on that, aren't you?

I think it's you that is keen on something.
#13
Quote by 33db
I think it's you that is keen on something.

It's called truth.

I know you're allergic to it, but NOMFUP.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#14
Quote by 33db
That really says more about you than anything occurring in reality.

Aside from the possibility of arson sometimes shit just happens, and "inequality" exist for a reason, life is not equal, and it never will be.

fam how can you say shit just happens in this situation. they didn't even have fuckin sprinkler systems. they tried to get the building sorted, and nobody did. this isn't a natural disaster.
Click here to hear my BOB DYLAN (Blowing in the Wind) out right now May 2k17
#15
Quote by laid-to-waste
fam how can you say shit just happens in this situation. they didn't even have fuckin sprinkler systems. they tried to get the building sorted, and nobody did. this isn't a natural disaster.
nah bro, poor people just spontaneously combust sometimes. Nothing we can do
___

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#16
Quote by 33db
That really says more about you than anything occurring in reality.

Aside from the possibility of arson sometimes shit just happens, and "inequality" exist for a reason, life is not equal, and it never will be.

^ think before you post. . .I think I already advised you previously. . .I speak from experience. . .
Now it's over...

Until we meet again...
#17
To be fair to 33db (and why, but you know, for the sake of argument) there's probably a significant proportion of voters that would go for someone who went on the news channels and said "look, sometimes shit just happens"
#18
It's horrible that this is seemingly the result of lazy/irresponsible construction.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#19
the worst part is that the families were given bad advice, told to stay inside by emergency services instead of risking an escape
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#20
Quote by Hydra150
the worst part is that the families were given bad advice, told to stay inside by emergency services instead of risking an escape


Oh, man.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#21
this is pretty humongously shitty.

when you say it wasn't equipped with proper fire prevention, were there no firewalls at all? that was my first thought when i first heard how fast the fire spread.
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#22
Residents have said they didn't have extinguishers, fire exits, sprinklers, a centralised alarm system, proper fire doors etc, haven't heard anything about the walls.

The worst thing for me is reading the blog of the residents association who saw this tragedy coming years ago and no one listened to them

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/
#23
Quote by Hydra150
the worst part is that the families were given bad advice, told to stay inside by emergency services instead of risking an escape


Tbf this is sound advice for 99% of modern flat fires. Each flat should be adequately insulated as to contain the fire to whatever flat it started in, so the emergency services can get in and fight that one fire without having hundreds of people trying to get out. The cladding meant that the fire went up the outside of the building, making it a lot harder to fight and deal with

People need to see jail time over this, manslaughter, criminal neglect, whatever the charge it should be a serious one. The company doing the renovations should have done a risk assessment when installing the cladding, this exact scenario should've been accounted for and measures put in place to prevent it.

This is what happens when you have X amount of private companies carrying out work across the board, nobody is in proper communication with each other and things get missed. This was so easily preventable that it's insane to me that it happened. The tories need to go, they shot down new housing laws that would've prevented this, they've got blood on their hands
friends
#24
Quote by Hydra150
the worst part is that the families were given bad advice, told to stay inside by emergency services instead of risking an escape

Yes I was surprised at this when that woman stated this is what she was told, it seems counter intuitive.
#25
Quote by Bladez22
Tbf this is sound advice for 99% of modern flat fires.

How is staying in a burning building ever sound advice?
#26
The Lakanal House fire in Southwark in 2009 subsequently proved him right. Six people, including three children, died when a fire in the high rise block in which they lived spread from the ninth floor to the tenth and eleventh floors of the building via flammable cladding that had been fixed to the exterior of the block.

Southwark Council subsequently pleaded guilty to four breaches of fire regulations. Labour MP Harriet Harman, whose constituency includes Lakanal House, said that those who had escaped with their lives were those who had ignored fire brigade instructions to ‘stay put’ and fled the building via the emergncy stairs. Those who died were those who obeyed instructions to stay in their homes.

So I have a question about this, was there some Grenfell council that decided to put this cladding on? Who exactly chose this coating to be put on?
In the above paragraph taken from the post SMB made it appears there is some sort of neighborhood council that makes these decisions.

Also the only ones surviving that earlier fire were the ones that chose to leave rather than to stay as they were instructed.

This is odd to me, in the US we are told to GTFO when a building is on fire not to stay.

EDIT: MY guess is the KCTMO made the decision, as they were responsible for the upkeep according to that blog.
http://www.kctmo.org.uk/

If someone there was writing a blog about the power surges, flammable cladding, and expired lighting and fire extinguishers, then it was likely common knowledge for the residents.
Last edited by 33db at Jun 19, 2017,
#27
Quote by Hydra150
the worst part is that the families were given bad advice, told to stay inside by emergency services instead of risking an escape

Only one stairwell, so you'd probably swap some people dying from the fire/smoke to a not-dissimilar number trampled/crushed.

Bad all round.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#28
very sad & shitty.

you can't live in a home which should not have been built
by the bourgeois clerks who bear no guilt

#29
Quote by neidnarb11890
very sad & shitty.

you can't live in a home which should not have been built
by the bourgeois clerks who bear no guilt

" For the stronger we our houses do build, 
The less chance we have of being killed."
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#30
I feel pretty desensitized to most stuff on the news these days, but this was actually really hard to watch. The interviews with survivors and family members were absolutely heart breaking.
#31
Quote by MeGaDeth2314
I feel pretty desensitized to most stuff on the news these days, but this was actually really hard to watch. The interviews with survivors and family members were absolutely heart breaking.

Yep, this one got to me too.
#32
Let's see some wealthy developers planning to do construction in the area put pressure on the wealthy owners of the Grenfell Tower to spruce the place up because they didn't like the look of it, the wealthy owners of the Tower which was already inadequate in terms of fire safety chose to cheap out and use inferior materials to give the building a facelift thereby increasing the fire hazard. Now they want to pay out a measley sum of money to people who lost everything.

Sounds about right, the wealthy not giving a crap about the poor.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
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#33
Quote by Evilnine
Let's see some wealthy developers planning to do construction in the area put pressure on the wealthy owners of the Grenfell Tower to spruce the place up because they didn't like the look of it, the wealthy owners of the Tower which was already inadequate in terms of fire safety chose to cheap out and use inferior materials to give the building a facelift thereby increasing the fire hazard. Now they want to pay out a measley sum of money to people who lost everything.

Sounds about right, the wealthy not giving a crap about the poor.

In the US that would open them to massive litigation as the residents complained multiple times about power surges, fire hazards and the cladding.
In addition this sort of cladding has been in other fires with deaths attributed, and IT'S STILL AVAILABLE FOR USE, one would hope the residents could sue the people responsible, put them in the poor house for a while.

I can't explain my feeling on this, but I got nauseous reading the blather on the web site of the corp responsible for the tower.
http://www.kctmo.org.uk/
#34
Quote by 33db
one would hope the residents could sue the people responsible, put them in the poor house for a while.


Or put them in one of these for awhile.

"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#35
the victims are entitled to a hell of a lot more. i would not be surprised if lawyers are scouting them right now from every angle because they can be liable for fuckin millions
Click here to hear my BOB DYLAN (Blowing in the Wind) out right now May 2k17
#36
Quote by EndTheRapture51
It's gonna be over 100. Worst civilian loss of life since WW2 in our country. Horrible times.

that's not bad going to be fair

but yeah someone or more likely a group of people have a lot of blood on their hands 
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#37
Quote by 33db
How is staying in a burning building ever sound advice?


Don't read the rest of my post then, this is why you're a moron

To summarise though, there's around 100 people per tower block, if there's a fire in one persons flat then having 100 people all stampeding and trying to escape will impede the emergency services trying to get in and fight the fire. Imagine trying to bring a fire hose and equipment up a staircase while 100 panicked people are running down, it'd be a nightmare. Which is why all modern towerblocks are designed to contain fires to the flat they're in. This toweblock would've contained the fire easily had it not had the cladding around the outside

Yes it was a mistake for the 999 phone operators to tell them to stay put in this one scenario, but in 99.999% of other towerblock fires it would've been the best thing to do. And to be fair to the phone operators who gave that instruction they would've had no idea that some dosy cunt wrapped the building in flammable material
friends
Last edited by Bladez22 at Jun 19, 2017,
#38
Quote by Bladez22
Don't read the rest of my post then, this is why you're a moron

Tbf this is sound advice for 99% of modern flat fires. Each flat should be adequately insulated as to contain the fire to whatever flat it started in, so the emergency services can get in and fight that one fire without having hundreds of people trying to get out.


Again, when is staying in a burning building ever good advice?

In the US we don't request people stay in burning buildings, we have fire drills and routes for escape.
Apparently some people think it's a grand idea to trust some twit on 999, the possibility that their council didn't fuck them with inferior building materials and stay put. On the off chance they may "get in the way" of the fire response.
#39
Man I didn't realise people had DIED all I heard about was how Corbyn and May have been like, literally the worst about this state of affairs, and I think it's fair to say that that's what really matters here.
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#40
Quote by 33db
Again, when is staying in a burning building ever good advice?
house fires are supposed to stay contained within houses, each a concrete box with a fire door - they didn't expect the fire to spread on the exterior, and this is why there is controversy about the cladding.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
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