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#1
Hey, I'm doing another thread on amps.

Well, I'm not getting any younger, but I do have the opportunity to embarrass my kids.  

Anyway, I'm looking at light-ish amps and cabs aimed at (this point) djent/deathcore. 

I'm looking at under $1000USD for the Amp+ Cab. I'm looking at lighter options since, again, age is a thing. I'm 36 and don't want to slaughter my back.

Two heads that have come up on my radar have been the Orange CR120 and Randall RG1003/1503 (100W/150W). Possibly considering the CR120C or the 120H + 2 12" cabs sinc the PPC212 is actually 7 pounds heavier than the  CR120C. Also, the Peavey 6505+112C is an option. 

I'd like to have this be capable of gigging if I ever get the nerve and want to be able to use pedals.

I have considered the Carvin V3M/V3Mc, but am not entirely sure that's going to address my goals.


I don't have a time limit. I've thought a MSDI out would be nice for silent recording since I currently work 2nd shift and like to tool around after I get off work. That said, 
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#2
Thread was moved to forum: Guitar Gear & Accessories
#3
Those will all work, even the Carvin.

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#4
I see you own a vypyr, which amp model is your 'go to' for riffing? if it's the 6505, then why buy anything else! In the US, you might be able to buy one of the 120w heads and a good Vintage 30 loaded 2x12 cab if you don't mind going used. But that won't be anywhere near silent for late night use with other people in the house. That's when you just use your current Vypyr with headphones.

And the 6505+ 112 combo isn't that bad of an idea. It's not going to be much heavier than a good quality 2x12 cab. It's the 212 combos that will kill your back, my old 6505 212 weighed about 85lbs :P
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#5
Quote by DarthV
I see you own a vypyr, which amp model is your 'go to' for riffing? if it's the 6505, then why buy anything else! In the US, you might be able to buy one of the 120w heads and a good Vintage 30 loaded 2x12 cab if you don't mind going used. But that won't be anywhere near silent for late night use with other people in the house. That's when you just use your current Vypyr with headphones.

And the 6505+ 112 combo isn't that bad of an idea. It's not going to be much heavier than a good quality 2x12 cab. It's the 212 combos that will kill your back, my old 6505 212 weighed about 85lbs :P

I usually use the 6505 green ("clean"), and occasionally the Rectifier. I look at weights, and depending on the type of clean I want, I never eliminate the 6505.  It's one of those, where the default is the 6505, but before I lock it down, I want to be damn sure it's what I want. I'm basically look at "the amp" as in my holy grail. Signs point to the 6505, but as I'm not in a rush, I want to check to make sure I'm not chasing some wild goose chase. Guitar or pickups are relatively simple: amps are hard when, based on the info I've gathered, is the most critical part of the rig. 

I may be overthinking this. How much does my oldest weight?
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#7
There is a 6505 and a 6505+ that have different tones and then there is the Peavey 5150 which is also a 6505. EVH who designed the amps has an EVH range of 5150IIIs out but they are not the same as the 6505s.

So the deal is really if you want the 6505+ sound for deathcore which is popular as heck, then get the Peavey 6505+ but you will be limited to Peavey's 6505 type of distortion which is distinct. That's the only way to get that tone and many players using it have said this is the holy grail of tone they have been searching for. I also know people with a 6505+ who lament that they can't really do much more with their distortion than get that sound, in which case, they should have gone with the EVH 5150III series ( ) which isn't as distortion specific and allows one to play a greater range of metal distortion.

Sounds to me you want the 6505+ but make sure this is the tone you really want to stick with.
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
#8
I really liked the green crunch on my 5150.  That sound I always thought of a boosted heavy Marshall.  

Besides the 5150 variants, check out some of these:

Randall RD Series - RD40 Head
Laney IronHeart - I really like the Rhythm Channel on this amp - I have mine setup for thrash all the way.  I have the 15W / 1W Studio version and it's great for home.  You'd mic it or run it straight to the board in a gig and it has a built in USB interface.  It weighs about 15-20 pounds including the footswitch and all the cables.   
Mesa Single Rectifier
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#9
Quote by Deermonic
There is a 6505 and a 6505+ that have different tones and then there is the Peavey 5150 which is also a 6505. EVH who designed the amps has an EVH range of 5150IIIs out but they are not the same as the 6505s.

So the deal is really if you want the 6505+ sound for deathcore which is popular as heck, then get the Peavey 6505+ but you will be limited to Peavey's 6505 type of distortion which is distinct. That's the only way to get that tone and many players using it have said this is the holy grail of tone they have been searching for. I also know people with a 6505+ who lament that they can't really do much more with their distortion than get that sound, in which case, they should have gone with the EVH 5150III series ( ) which isn't as distortion specific and allows one to play a greater range of metal distortion.

Sounds to me you want the 6505+ but make sure this is the tone you really want to stick with.

Eh, an EQ pedal in the loop can really help you get more versatility out of those amps.  A lot of people haven't tried it or are afraid to try it, for some reason.  The EQ section on the whole Peavey line of 5150s and 6505s is not that effective.  You can't change things very much.  Unless you run the mids below 1, for example, they've got a boatload of mids from 2-7, but then the mids don't really increase any more after 7.  Running an EQ in the loop can change all of that.

In my case, I went the opposite direction as TS -- I wanted to dial-OUT all of those "modern" djent/twang/duck-quack sounds, and an MXR 10-band works beautifully for that.  And what's left after that is one of the most brutal death/black metal tones I've ever heard.  

Back on topic -- I think TS needs an EVH 5150 III 50 Watt head, with a 212 cab.  Used, he should be able to find a setup in his budget of $1000.  Out of the whole 5150 family, the EVH gets that ultra-tight, refined, and twangy modern tone a little easier than the others.  And if it still doesn't have enough "quack" get an MXR 6-band EQ and boost the 1.5 khz slider.  1.5khz is THE djent frequency.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#10
KailM

EQs are the #1 pedal to go for after a tuner. Shape your sound. That goes for every amp.
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
#11
KailM
Forgot about the 5150.
I should be able to check those out.
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#12
Quote by KailM
I think TS needs an EVH 5150 III 50 Watt head, with a 212 cab.  Used, he should be able to find a setup in his budget of $1000.  


That's about it, or Mesa Mini Rectifier and 2x12 cab, most likely used to stay within budget or a bit above buget. The Mesa MarkV 15/30 watt heads might also be worth considering even if the price jumps. The resale value on these amps will usually hold so it might be worth looking into.
#13
Saw an ebay listing for a 5150 III 50W + matching cab for exactly $1k. Unfortunately, outside strings, I'm done with purchases for the year.

I have gotten some good ideas with an EQ pedal. 

Are there any 2x12 cabs that I should specifically look out for?
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#14
Quote by bjgrifter
Saw an ebay listing for a 5150 III 50W + matching cab for exactly $1k. Unfortunately, outside strings, I'm done with purchases for the year.

I have gotten some good ideas with an EQ pedal. 

Are there any 2x12 cabs that I should specifically look out for?

So you bought it?  If so, I wouldn't worry about getting a different cab -- the matching 212 cab sounds awesome.  Many folks prefer it to anything else, including Mesa 212 cabs.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#15
KailM
I wish!

I was looking at various sites, including eBay, for an average price. Looks like $650-700 seems to be a common range, so $300 for a cab would be avaliable if I didnt see a deal with it included. I figured since I'm taking my sweet time anyway, research is what I need to do whie I wait.
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#16
Quote by KailM
So you bought it?  If so, I wouldn't worry about getting a different cab -- the matching 212 cab sounds awesome.  Many folks prefer it to anything else, including Mesa 212 cabs.


Yep, with my 5153, I prefer the matching 212 cab over my Mesa.

bjgrifter, just keep an eye out for local used cabs and snipe if you see a great deal.
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#17
Quote by bjgrifter
Saw an ebay listing for a 5150 III 50W + matching cab for exactly $1k. Unfortunately, outside strings, I'm done with purchases for the year.

I have gotten some good ideas with an EQ pedal. 

Are there any 2x12 cabs that I should specifically look out for?

The matching cab sounds pretty awesome, as does the oversized Orange 212. Reason being that while it and the Mesa use V30's, the Orange cab uses 16 8ohm V30's while the Mesa 212 uses 8 16ohm. Different impedance speakers don't sound anywhere near the same even if they're the same model. The 16ohm V30's have significantly more lows highs because they have twice the number of winds on the voice coil as the 8ohm version. Speakers with more winds in their voice coils sound darker for the same reason pickups with overwound coils sound darker.


However, the major drawback of the EVH cabinet is it only has 60 watts of power handling. You'll need to buy new speakers or buy another cabinet if you intend to buy higher power amps in the future. Meanwhile the Orange is 120 watts thus the vast majority of big heads can safely run it.

EDIT: Got it backwards It's the Orange cabs that have the 8ohm speakers, and the Mesa's that have the 16's.
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I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
#18
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Different impedance speakers don't sound anywhere near the same even if they're the same model. The 16ohm V30's have significantly more lows because they have twice the number of winds on the voice coil as the 8ohm version. Speakers with more winds in their voice coils sound darker for the same reason pickups with overwound coils sound darker.


I'm not sure where this feldercarb came from, but it's absolutely untrue.

Below are a pair frequency response charts overlaid from two of the same speaker, with one having twice the impedance of the other. On the bottom of the chart, you'll see the impedance varying by frequency, measured in air. On the top of the chart, you'll see the frequency response. Since these are actual production run speakers, you'll see some variances, but these speakers are virtually identical in their response.

Last edited by dspellman at Jun 23, 2017,
#19
Quote by dspellman
I'm not sure where this feldercarb came from, but it's absolutely untrue.

Below are a pair frequency response charts overlaid from two of the same speaker, with one having twice the impedance of the other. On the bottom of the chart, you'll see the impedance varying by frequency, measured in air. On the top of the chart, you'll see the frequency response. Since these are actual production run speakers, you'll see some variances, but these speakers are virtually identical in their response. 

I'm just trying to make sense of the difference I hear between the Orange and Mesa cabs with the same speakers. The comparison between speakers and pickup coils seems a pretty intuitive one. It also happens to be the reason Celestion gives for why the two different impedances of V30's sound different. Because the number of winds in the voice coils are not the same. Conveniently I can't find the source though.

It seems to be pretty common wizzdumb that speakers with higher impedance are brighter, actually. Not darker. So I'll give you that for having it backwards. D'oh!

I'll still argue that different impedances of V30 sound different though.



 
EDIT: I got the whole thing about which cabinets use what backwards too. It's the Mesas use the 16ohm speakers. The Oranges use 8. But that would make it consistent with my hypothesis again.

I had a very stressful day at work, haven't really had much time to worry about speaker cabinets today.
Quote by Axelfox
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
#20
I'm thinking that things like cabinet volume, how airtight the cabinet is, whether it has holes/ports, etc., might have more effect.
There's also this -- there are differences in the amount of power available if you have a different impedance. I have power amps that have about 900W available into an 8 ohm load, but 1500W available into a 4 ohm load. If it takes power to reproduce bottom end (it does), then it would stand to reason that lower impedance (4 ohms is lower impedance than 8 ohms) would have more power available.

But the speakers themselves aren't really different in frequency response. That can be verified with their frequency response charts (as above) or with actual testing (not "shootouts", but with Real Time Analysis involved).


But just to make sure, I've emailed Jensen, Eminence, Celestion and Electrovoice to put into writing whatever they have to say on the matter.
#21
Quote by dspellman
I'm thinking that things like cabinet volume, how airtight the cabinet is, whether it has holes/ports, etc., might have more effect.
There's also this -- there are differences in the amount of power available if you have a different impedance. I have power amps that have about 900W available into an 8 ohm load, but 1500W available into a 4 ohm load. If it takes power to reproduce bottom end (it does), then it would stand to reason that lower impedance (4 ohms is lower impedance than 8 ohms) would have more power available. 

That could explain the tonal difference. It would be true that higher power handling is available to lower impedance speakers as a function of ohms law. And power and low end reproduction indeed go hand in hand.

It's basically the amp that's making the difference, as a function of the speakers. And not the speakers themselves.

Armchair sound engineering is great, but I'd be curious to know what the actual experts have to say. 
Quote by Axelfox
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
#22
I pump my 5150III through Orange... and my Marshall for that matter. Still the EVH cabs are awesome.
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
#23
I'll just add that the Mesa V30s are slightly tweaked and made for Mesa in the UK.

V30s from retail outlets are the normal ones and are made in China. (I'm NOT starting the China vs UK thing, just Mesa vs non-Mesa. )

The other difference could be cabinet dimensions.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#24
Quote by dspellman
I'm thinking that things like cabinet volume, how airtight the cabinet is, whether it has holes/ports, etc., might have more effect.
There's also this -- there are differences in the amount of power available if you have a different impedance. I have power amps that have about 900W available into an 8 ohm load, but 1500W available into a 4 ohm load. If it takes power to reproduce bottom end (it does), then it would stand to reason that lower impedance (4 ohms is lower impedance than 8 ohms) would have more power available.

But the speakers themselves aren't really different in frequency response. That can be verified with their frequency response charts (as above) or with actual testing (not "shootouts", but with Real Time Analysis involved).


But just to make sure, I've emailed Jensen, Eminence, Celestion and Electrovoice to put into writing whatever they have to say on the matter.

As an idiot trying to remember the basic electronics course I had in college, thank you.
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#25
Quote by dspellman
I'm not sure where this feldercarb came from, but it's absolutely untrue.

Below are a pair frequency response charts overlaid from two of the same speaker, with one having twice the impedance of the other. On the bottom of the chart, you'll see the impedance varying by frequency, measured in air. On the top of the chart, you'll see the frequency response. Since these are actual production run speakers, you'll see some variances, but these speakers are virtually identical in their response.


Whilst the difference isn't extreme, the higher ohm speaker is brighter on this chart at around the 10k region. The fact that the freq responses are so close until this point backs this up. I actually thought your chart confirmed what T00DEEPBLUE  was saying

Hopefully some of the speaker companies respond soon and clear this up a bit.
RIP Gooze

cats
#26
Quote by mulefish
Whilst the difference isn't extreme, the higher ohm speaker is brighter on this chart at around the 10k region. The fact that the freq responses are so close until this point backs this up. I actually thought your chart confirmed what T00DEEPBLUE  was saying

Hopefully some of the speaker companies respond soon and clear this up a bit.


There's not really much to "clear up." And I doubt we're going to hear anything until Tuesday or Wednesday.

Not only is the difference NOT significant, but it's happening at 20 dB down in a range that's not typically associated with electric guitar. Most *guitar* speakers have usable frequency response between about 100Hz and 4000Hz, and drop off rapidly below and above those numbers. The 24th fret of the high E string (E6) is about 1319Hz. You're talking about a frequency three octaves above that, that the speaker isn't designed to control anyway, and at a barely audible volume.
That's more a product of artifacting, margin of error, etc. It's not something that you're going to hear.
#27
I wasn't necessarily implying much of a tonal difference. I am fully aware that there is very little, if any, useable information above about 8k (where the freq response on the speaker charts start to differ) for electric guitar, and wasn't trying to imply that this would explain the tonal difference between different cabs.
Rather, I was curious as to whether the difference in responses in this region was due to the the extra voice coils windings.

I'm aware my original post didn't make this clear though.
RIP Gooze

cats
#28
First response was from Eminence. I'm going to post them *exactly* as I get them, whether they agree or disagree with what I believe to be true.

"No, 16 ohm speakers do not have twice the number of windings as an 8 ohm version. A smaller gauge of wire is used on a 16 ohm version and it does have more turns in the gap, but not twice as much, and the winding height is usually the same as an 8 ohm version.

Usually, the 16 ohm version is a little brighter because the smaller wire gauge is lighter and because the Bl product is higher with more turns in the magnetic gap, but inductance is also higher, which could bring the highs down a bit.

Best Regards,

ANTHONY LUCAS
Design Engineer/Technical Support

O: (502) 845-5622 ext. 341 F: (502) 845-5653

EMINENCE SPEAKER, LLC
P.O. Box 360
838 Mulberry Pike
Eminence, KY 40019

Designed and Assembled in the USA
Last edited by dspellman at Jun 26, 2017,
#29
Quote by Axelfox
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Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
#30
This one came in from Celestion.
We're not going to hear from ElectroVoice, sadly, leastways for a while. I have to hunt down the technical/engineering folks, who aren't easily accessible.
I'm also going to be able to get into more depth on this ("secret sauce") when they know it's not for public distribution . There are apparently a LOT more factors than simply the number of winds, including the *shape* of the wire, the weight of the voice coil, the inductance factors, manufacturing variation, etc., yada yada. I've been told that cabinet factors (size, shape, ports, air-tightness and losses due to cabinet flex) are all far more important to minor sound variations than impedance.

Okay, so Celestion:

It’s possible that they have more winds on the Voice Coil, David, but in that situation, the wire’s cross section would have to be narrower. I’m going to be deliberately vague on this, though, as it’s all part of the secret sauce….

However I can say the general consensus is that 16 ohm speakers sound a little brighter, rather than darker, compared with an 8 ohm speaker.

Regards,
The Doc
Dr. Decibel, Celestion, Claydon Business Park, Great Blakenham, Ipswich IP6 0NL, UK
+44 (0)1473 835300; drdecibel@celestion.com; www.celestion.com

Facebook.com/Celestion

Find tone samples here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2B5D46028A98E612
#31
Thank you for posting the responses; interesting stuff
RIP Gooze

cats
#32
Necro'ing my own thread instead of making a new one this soon.


Been playing with the various Amp sims on the Vypyr 30. Really liking the Diezel--which I thought was based around the VH4 . I'm able to pull out much defined tones with this amp and virtually no effort versus the 6505, which come off muddy by comparison. In the spirit of this, and realizing a VH4 is no way going to fit into my budget, I've considered running a Quilter 101 and the DH4 pedal. I still want to try out the 5150 once the kids are back in school, but tossing the digital avenue out there if that would work with my end goals or not. 
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#33
The Quilter 101 is a nice option, but you WILL need pedals to do anything heavier than, saaaay...classic rock. But it will do fine with pedals.




The 200 series or the Mach 2 would each have a better OD tone than the 101s, but you still might prefer to use a pedal for a Quilter to do metal.

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#34
Oh yeah, forgot to mention one feature the 101s have over most of the rest of the Quilter line: a headphone jack. As I recall, only the 101s and the Micro 45 have one. So if quiet practice with your pedals is something you're interested in, stick to the 101s or 45.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#35
Yeah, the pedal part is the biggest asset and biggest problem with Quilter. However, having a blank slate to work around with pedals is something that probably would leave me more satisfied in the long run. 

I think my problem with a single amp is a commitment to one general tone, which I could alter with pedals, but then why am I dropping that much on an amp. I have to say, while it's not the end-all, the modeling feature of my Vypyr has been a real boon.

Those tones are excellent and making a DIY setup more compelling, and I've heard the BE-OD before. Now, how would this compare versus the Atomic Amplifire? I'm looking at the "amp" part in the $500-700 range, which a used 5150, Amplifire, and 101+VH4 pedal combo all fall into.
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#36
I have 2 legit amps, a Fender HRD 40w combo and an Orange TH30 head with a 212. Neither was particularly cheap, especially since both were bought new.

With the right pedals, the Fender handled everything I wanted to do except real metal. It got in the neighborhood, but...

The Orange, OTOH, jumps right on massive doom/stoner tones my Fender couldn't touch.*

My point? If you have varied tastes, it's likely no single tube amp is going to scratch all of your itches. Modeling amps are cool & all, but IME, they always have a tone setting I want to like but absolutely don't. But the modern, high end modelers like AmpliFire, Kempers, AxeFX, etc. are usually a LOT better than typical modeling amps.

Which would be best for you, only you can say.


* For those following my saga, NO, I haven't tried it at home, yet- going by my very fun, in-store test drives.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#37
That or track down a Randall MTS...but then there's the modules. Right now, I keep coming back to Quilter+Pedals, but that's why I'm researching. I can go grab any guitar and make it work. Tone is another issue, and if I'm going to throw pedals in the mix anyway, why drop $1k+ on a head and that much on pedals? I am glad to catch wind of Quilter. A 2lb head and a pedal board seems much easier to manage than a 50lb head and 70lb+ cab.

Modeling is nice to get an idea of what's available when starting out. I'm hard-pressed to ditch my Vypyr, but for performances, a 30W SS is probably not going to cut it. 
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#38
A good standalone MFX pedal will work with any rig, and will offer you many useful features, so don't feel locked into modeling amps.

As to why drop $X on an amp or head? Well...look at the build quality, features and the tones it delivers. I love my HRD, and based on my experiences with my TH30 to date, I'm going to love it too. But that hasn't stopped me from looking at other amps. As much ground as those cover, there are still gaps; still some itches not quite scratched. Hence my ongoing interest in certain Quilters, Mesas, Carvins, etc.

I know some guys who assemble dream rigs costing multiple thousands of dollars. Then, like a Chappers video on "How to sound like _______ on a budget" video, assemble a smaller, less expensive rig that mimics it. The pricey one is their ideal tone; they may record with the expensive toys, but the less expensive one is the one they gig & tour with.

Even- maybe especially- pros do this. Not just with painstakingly retro engineered guitars and modified or cloned amps, but even pedals. Eric Johnson loves his Maestro Echoplex EP-3, but a recent touring board of his featured 3 Catalinbread Belle Epochs instead of even one EP-3.

Similarly, a Quilter Mach 2 may be able to get close to a JCM800, but it isn't one. There will be instances where the Quilter can't quite match it. If you need those particular features & tones, the JCM800 is the way to go. But for most applications, for most players, the Mach 2 will do.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#39
dannyalcatraz 

Yeah, I heard Marc Okubo from Veil of Maya uses a Boss MFX (don't recall the exact model, but was a GT series) with a Randall V2 Ninja head. 

So with an MFX pedal, I'd be able to run it directly to a cab?
Guitar/Bass:
Schecter: Damien 6/Stilletto Extreme 5, Squier: Bullet HSS*, Washburn RX10*/WG-587, Agile Septor 727
*mods

Amps/FX
Peavey: Vypyr 30/Max 112 (200W), ISP: Decimator

Quote by dannyalcatraz
Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.

justinguitar.com is the answer
#40
MFX pedals are just like regular stompboxes, but with more options.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
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