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#1
Interesting article on the aging of guitar players and the decline in sales and interest in guitar playing in general.
Talks about software driven musicians exploding, Guitar Centers 1.6 billion in debt, weird decisions by Gibson to make auto tuning guitars, and an interesting statistic that most people quit playing guitar in the first year.

It's a long read, if you're a phone user probably just skip it.


Not sure I buy the premise, but it is a lot easier (and cheaper) for a kid to buy something like Reason, and be able to write out an entire song, drums, bass and all on it with little to no musical knowledge or talent.
There have been hit songs written exactly that way.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/lifestyle/the-slow-secret-death-of-the-electric-guitar/?utm_term=.cd5c3af380d8
Last edited by 33db at Jun 23, 2017,
#2
Guitars aren't cool and maybe you should post the article

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#3
Quote by 33db
...and be able to write out an entire song on it with little to no musical knowledge or talent.
There have been hit songs written exactly that way.

People have been doing that with guitars for years
#4
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Guitars aren't cool and maybe you should post the article

You're right an instrument is not "cool", talent is cool, regardless of how it is expressed, and thanks I forgot the link.
#5
Quote by sashki
People have been doing that with guitars for years

*chortle*
#6
 self-tuning guitars will be recognized as a great innovation, comparing them with the advent of the television remote control 

Ah yes, the TV remote, what a wonderous and game-changing technology.
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#7
guitar is def on the way out. maybe now it'll only be as popular as literally any other instrument
PM me for newts
#8
Quote by StewieSwan
guitar is def on the way out. maybe now it'll only be as popular as literally any other instrument

Like tuba?
#9
Quote by 33db
Like tuba?

Name one song that wouldn't be a billion times better with a tuba solo.
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Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#10
yes thats because my first album hasnt dropped yet.
"I specialize in driving a set like I'm driving a Lexus" - Uncle Mez
#11
Good. Get the normies out of my shit. That way, demand will go down, and with the absolute glut in supply, I can get some gear for cheap
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy

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#12
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Name one song that wouldn't be a billion times better with a tuba solo.

Eruption 
--Van Halen
#13
Throw your guitar in the trash and buy a Mac
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#14
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Name one song that wouldn't be a billion times better with a tuba solo.

Made me think of this

#15
Quote by 33db
Eruption 
--Van Halen



 
Quote by whoomit Made me think of this  

choon 
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#16
Guitar is an easy and low investment instrument to earn. You can just keep it in the corner of your room and pick it up every now and again. Iconic songs like Smells Like Teen Spirit and Wonderwall are easy to learn on them too. Much better than sitting up a piano or something.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#17
Quote by 33db



Not sure I buy the premise, but it is a lot easier (and cheaper) for a kid to buy something like Reason, and be able to write out an entire song, drums, bass and all on it with little to no musical knowledge or talent.
There have been hit songs written exactly that way.



Writing songs is a talent itself and making it easier for people to have creative out put isn't a bad thing

Does anyone other than 13 year old led zeppelin fans really care about guitar going "out of style"
#18
I don't care what genre it is or what its played with as long as it sounds good.

Just do cringe when pop radio rock acts get hailed as "the UK's next big rock band" like fuck off you sound tripe just cos you're calling yourself "rock" doesn't give you credibility it just makes you worse.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#19
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I don't care what genre it is or what its played with as long as it sounds good.

Just do cringe when pop radio rock acts get hailed as "the UK's next big rock band" like fuck off you sound tripe just cos you're calling yourself "rock" doesn't give you credibility it just makes you worse.

Could be worse. I mean, they could be naming their bands for SEO reasons.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#20
Guitar is being replaced by smart phones and video games that's what most kids are into.
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#21
Quote by soundgarden1986
Writing songs is a talent itself and making it easier for people to have creative out put isn't a bad thing

Does anyone other than 13 year old led zeppelin fans really care about guitar going "out of style"

13 year olds know about Zeppelin? Awesome.
And "out of style" is the way to put it, guitars aren't going away any more than violins did.

They aren't as popular due to the fact a lot of modern music doesn't use guitars, uses them in a textural sense or uses sampled guitars.
Minimalism of rap style, the dominance of bass and EDM are what seem popular to me.

I don't think the splintering in genres has helped much either.

I'm not to sad about hearing Guitar City is 1.6 billion in debt, fuck them and "musicians friend".
#22
Quote by Evilnine
Guitar is being replaced by smart phones and video games that's what most kids are into.

I guess it's a side effect of getting older, but the thought of that makes me sad.
#23
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Name one song that wouldn't be a billion times better with a tuba solo.


Gosh, I can't think of a single one!
#24
 If you like rock music then the guitar is the way to go. There is something about computerized electronic music and electronic drums that seems empty and missing something. I never listen to that stuff or if I do it doesn't get me that excited. 
#25
Quote by Bhagavad Guitar
 If you like rock music then the guitar is the way to go. There is something about computerized electronic music and electronic drums that seems empty and missing something. I never listen to that stuff or if I do it doesn't get me that excited. 

What's missing is one or two of these

Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#26
Quote by Bhagavad Guitar
 If you like rock music then the guitar is the way to go. There is something about computerized electronic music and electronic drums that seems empty and missing something. I never listen to that stuff or if I do it doesn't get me that excited. 

I respect your subjective choices, but electronic music can have emotion and energy as well as any standard instrument song can.

It's more a matter of the honesty and intent of the musician, if they are using electronics and slapping songs together to make money or whatever then they do sound empty.
Due to the ease and prevalence of computers a lot of electronic music is being created, and so there's quite a bit of shit mixed in with the good.

Interesting is that Rush touched on this in 1980 with their "Spirit of the Radio" song.
All this machinery
Making modern music
Can still be open-hearted
Not so coldly charted
It's really just a question
Of your honesty, yeah your honesty
#27
Oh well, never understood the weird subculture around it that exists with basically no other instrument

Probably only kept being popular as long as it did because Guitar Hero and Rock Band made every 12 year old want to play last decade

"Wood and strings" #RIPwill
___

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she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#28
Quote by 33db
I respect your subjective choices, but electronic music can have emotion and energy as well as any standard instrument song can.

It's more a matter of the honesty and intent of the musician, if they are using electronics and slapping songs together to make money or whatever then they do sound empty.
Due to the ease and prevalence of computers a lot of electronic music is being created, and so there's quite a bit of shit mixed in with the good.

Interesting is that Rush touched on this in 1980 with their "Spirit of the Radio" song.


Sure, I am not sure how you can use a computer to improvise with very well at least not thus far. I studied some computer science. Computers have certain limitations .. 

 I am not aware of any computer created songs that I like I guess .. 

 When there is a band with a human drummer and actual players there is a certain human dynamic at work 

here is computer generated jazz I guess .. It's good but not better than many jazz artists I have heard. Computers can play chess but music seems different in certain ways

Last edited by Bhagavad Guitar at Jun 23, 2017,
#29
Funny thing about guitar players is they are a dime a dozen when you're looking to form a band, hardest thing to find IMO was a good singer.
#30
33db 

 Although being a good or a much better than average guitarist is something to strive for if you have the time and motivation. I have always been a fan of the guitar or instrumentation more so than vocals myself but some people like the vocals more.  
#31
 I think a certain swami said that computers will never be able to simulate certain things such as feeling etc. If you created computer music by hooking up electrodes to your brain  then it would become totally cerebral .. At least with the guitar you are engaging your actual body and mind/body connection .. 
#32
Feel like I'm constantly debating this online the last year or so. The fact is, for the big guitar brands it's time to evolve or die.

Key factors

Technology has moved on, meaning that strumming strings on a lump of wood is no longer the easiest or cheapest point of entry for new musicians.

Consumer choices across many sectors now skew towards small batch or made to order products, hurting generic mass produced products whose manufacturers were previously printing money.

Economic factors have made buying second hand goods much more common and palateable, hurting companies with products that don't become obselete or unfashionable.

Widespread internet access has made forms of entertainment that eg. Fender would never have considered competitors (ie. video games) aggressively market to particularly male teens who would formerly have had a wider range of interests and hobbies.

With the decline of the record industry as a whole, labels have moved away from risky lending to upcoming local bands and favoured adopting safer bets such as TV talent show winners.
#33
For what it's worth, I think Fender are better equipped than Gibson to weather this storm.

Gibson's attempts to modernise (the self-tuning guitars, widening the price range of it's flagship models, trying out new shapes, that active bass they did) have largely been failures.

Fender's top brass seem more open to the possibilities the modern market is bringing them, plus being more modular their products are inherently more suitable to experiment or offer options which might be a challenge for Gibson.

If I was in charge of Fender, I'd do the following things.

Take value away from the second hand market by giving exclusive access to things to buyers of new Fenders. They've got a shit load of artists using their gear, they need their endorsers producing content (video lessons in particular) because if your choice is a new Squier or a couple of years old MIM, it's a no brainer at the moment.

Build what consumers want to see - let their fans do the marketing for them. Bring in a Lego style online system where people can design their fantasy Fender and with enough people pledging to buy one, it gets made. Hell, give the designer a free one.

Bring in a trade-in scheme to keep Fender players playing new Fenders. Make it like a phone contract - get an upgrade once your first model is paid off. Keep those used Fenders away from ebay (fuck it, stockpile them in a warehouse somewhere for twenty years and then sell them as a vintage aged line)
#35
Quote by Bhagavad Guitar
Sure, I am not sure how you can use a computer to improvise with very well at least not thus far. I studied some computer science. Computers have certain limitations .. 

 I am not aware of any computer created songs that I like I guess .. 

 When there is a band with a human drummer and actual players there is a certain human dynamic at work 

here is computer generated jazz I guess .. It's good but not better than many jazz artists I have heard. Computers can play chess but music seems different in certain ways


When I say electronic music I mean people are still creating the music, but using computers and keyboard/pad triggers to do.
I play a USB connected piano keyboard and Native Instruments Maschine through my computer, I can edit out any mistakes I've made and it still has a groove to the playing, it's still me playing it.
When I first started I got carried away with quantization, after a while I learned that was something to be used sparingly.

As far as drum machines go, there is an art to getting the feel in there, that can be done by allowing timings errors within a certain limit, sliding the percussion tracks ahead of or behind the other percussion tracks mixing with loops of live drummers.

I am not aware of any computer generated (made by a computer alone, no human) music that I can say I like.
Here's someone using Maschine mixed with live pad playing, triggered samples and what not.
May not be for you, but I like this and some people are super creative using tools like this.
#36
Quote by smb
For what it's worth, I think Fender are better equipped than Gibson to weather this storm.

Gibson's attempts to modernise (the self-tuning guitars, widening the price range of it's flagship models, trying out new shapes, that active bass they did) have largely been failures.

Fender's top brass seem more open to the possibilities the modern market is bringing them, plus being more modular their products are inherently more suitable to experiment or offer options which might be a challenge for Gibson.

If I was in charge of Fender, I'd do the following things.

Take value away from the second hand market by giving exclusive access to things to buyers of new Fenders. They've got a shit load of artists using their gear, they need their endorsers producing content (video lessons in particular) because if your choice is a new Squier or a couple of years old MIM, it's a no brainer at the moment.

Build what consumers want to see - let their fans do the marketing for them. Bring in a Lego style online system where people can design their fantasy Fender and with enough people pledging to buy one, it gets made. Hell, give the designer a free one.

Bring in a trade-in scheme to keep Fender players playing new Fenders. Make it like a phone contract - get an upgrade once your first model is paid off. Keep those used Fenders away from ebay (fuck it, stockpile them in a warehouse somewhere for twenty years and then sell them as a vintage aged line)

Yeah I agree with that and with today's CNC machines the custom production cost have dropped, also Fender cost less for their American branded product, Gibson is still ridiculously expensive.
#37
Quote by Bhagavad Guitar
33db

 Although being a good or a much better than average guitarist is something to strive for if you have the time and motivation. I have always been a fan of the guitar or instrumentation more so than vocals myself but some people like the vocals more.  

I think people just relate to singers better, really it's something everyone does in the shower what not, doesn't require any instruments or amps etc.
So even if people can't really sing they still do in their cars and bathrooms, and so they can related to singers.

Doesn't hurt that singers are generally the most visable part of any band.
#38
Quote by soundgarden1986
Writing songs is a talent itself and making it easier for people to have creative out put isn't a bad thing
yeah the lack of a guitar isn't going to make a person's songwriting any better or worse, and plenty of very basic (even shit) songs have been made with guitars and become successful; moreover someone who does have talent (or probably skill is a better word) in songwriting definitely benefits from the wider range of tools at their disposal
Quote by Bhagavad Guitar
 If you like rock music then the guitar is the way to go. There is something about computerized electronic music and electronic drums that seems empty and missing something. I never listen to that stuff or if I do it doesn't get me that excited. 
Quote by Bhagavad Guitar
Sure, I am not sure how you can use a computer to improvise with very well at least not thus far. I studied some computer science. Computers have certain limitations .. 

 I am not aware of any computer created songs that I like I guess .. 

 When there is a band with a human drummer and actual players there is a certain human dynamic at work 

here is computer generated jazz I guess .. It's good but not better than many jazz artists I have heard. Computers can play chess but music seems different in certain ways
you're talking about two very different things in these posts - computer-created music isn't a meaningful force in modern music, but music created using computerised instruments is, has been around for several decades, and has been used to great effect by all manner of artists and bands. synths in hair metal, drum machines in goth rock and post-punk bands, and the whole world of EDM

it's part of the toolkit and it can certainly be used artfully, though you needn't like it yourself

as far as computer-generated music, imo we approach that from a pretty silly point of view, in that we often expect the computer to play a bigger role in the creation process (procedurally generated melodies etc.) than we do when we're writing music, which is in large part based around formulae with which we're familiar

a computer can probably put together a solid 12-bar blues with a blues player's vocabulary of licks and melodies, and an understanding of which notes we like to hear

it's probably been done before, and it'll probably get better, although i think the human element in both songwriting and performance is something that we as a species like and will prefer even if it's matched or perfectly imitated by computers

all that said, how can it be beyond the realms of plausibility, or even probability, that computers will reach sufficient complexity to be able to mimic every bit of that "feel" we like about human musicians?

also 33db your posts in this thread are good and i like them

Quote by smb
For what it's worth, I think Fender are better equipped than Gibson to weather this storm.

Gibson's attempts to modernise (the self-tuning guitars, widening the price range of it's flagship models, trying out new shapes, that active bass they did) have largely been failures.

Fender's top brass seem more open to the possibilities the modern market is bringing them, plus being more modular their products are inherently more suitable to experiment or offer options which might be a challenge for Gibson.

If I was in charge of Fender, I'd do the following things.

Take value away from the second hand market by giving exclusive access to things to buyers of new Fenders. They've got a shit load of artists using their gear, they need their endorsers producing content (video lessons in particular) because if your choice is a new Squier or a couple of years old MIM, it's a no brainer at the moment.

Build what consumers want to see - let their fans do the marketing for them. Bring in a Lego style online system where people can design their fantasy Fender and with enough people pledging to buy one, it gets made. Hell, give the designer a free one.

Bring in a trade-in scheme to keep Fender players playing new Fenders. Make it like a phone contract - get an upgrade once your first model is paid off. Keep those used Fenders away from ebay (fuck it, stockpile them in a warehouse somewhere for twenty years and then sell them as a vintage aged line)
i agree with this but i'm such a slut for fender that i'm not sure i can really form an objective judgement here
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Last edited by K33nbl4d3 at Jun 23, 2017,
#39
There's probably some decline in guitar buying. If you think about the the 90s depressive youths that were pushing weird shaped Fenders (Nirvana, etc.) are long out of fashion. Then there's the 7 and 8 string guitar trend that seems to be making the rounds nowadays, or maybe it is fading out, a few years ago djent was the thing.

I think GC are in trouble for other reasons, bad customer service is probably reason #1 I don't go there much. Lately they restructured the stores in such a way that there are no quality products, so for a professional player it is a really bad place to go. Last year around Christmas when I went to GC to buy my friend a present, I had to wait 40 minutes for an employee to help me find an item.
#40
Quote by 33db
*chortle*


because putting together a I-V-vi-IV is so complex and mysterious lol

also you underestimate how difficult it is to actually put together decent sounding music with software instruments without using loops

like have you ever actually sat down, opened Logic or Cubase or Pro Tools, opened a blank file, and put something together entirely by penciling notes into the grid and putting in all the plugins

bet that if I gave you my keyboard you couldn't even figure out how to make a good 303 bass or sync lead
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