#1
I have a Line 6 Spider IV 30 and a  Schecter Damien FR with Seymour Duncan pickups. I am a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE fan of Avenged Sevenfold. I want to know how I can get the Synyster Gates style tone? Should I buy any pedals? Should I consider buying a cabinet? What string gauge should I use? What pick gauge should I use? Does it even matter what pick gauge I use?! I NEED ANSWERS!!! GIVE THEM TO ME NOW !!!!! Okeh? Okeh . But really, if you have any advise, tell me. Piece!
You can call me Crazy.
Last edited by CrazyTNTdog at Jul 4, 2017,
#2
Probably going to want a new amp.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#3
Quote by CrazyTNTdog
I have a Line 6 Spider IV 30 and a  Schecter Damien FR with Seymour Duncan pickups. I am a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE fan of Avenged Sevenfold. I want to know how I can get the Synyster Gates style tone? Should I buy any pedals? Should I consider buying a cabinet? What string gauge should I use? What pick gauge should I use? Does it even matter what pick gauge I use?! I NEED ANSWERS!!! GIVE THEM TO ME NOW !!!!! Okeh? Okeh . But really, if you have any advise, tell me. Piece!


Have you looked at any of the Rig Rundowns on the intertoobs that tell you what he uses?
#4
Why don't you just get the Pick Up ? I have the Sinister Gates on my main axe , they don't cost that much
#6
Fumble fingers Well for a set of the new pickups, (Because I cant find the invaders) its $300 right now if I don't hurry up and order it and to get them installed on my guitar that's $75. So that's $375 and I'm at Disney right now so I definitely don't have enough money.
You can call me Crazy.
#7
Amp is the answer. New pickups won't give you desired sound with current amp. He uses some fairly high end tube amps which your amp can't really duplicate
#8
You'll never get the tone with that amp. You'll want to invest in a solid tube amp, put a tubescreamer in front of it and you should be able to dial in a reasonably close tone. As someone who picked up my guitar solely because of Synyster Gates over 8 years ago now i'll have you know that as with any guitarist the tone is in the fingers to a significant extent. Even with his exact gear you wouldn't be able to replicate his tone. There are a lot of nuances in his playing that take years and years to understand. I looked on your profile and also noticed you want a sustainiac pickup. That's all well and good, but it's absolutely pointless to do so with your current amp. No matter what you do to your guitar you're still playing through a low end amp and it's still going to sound shit.
#9
Quote by dspellman
Have you looked at any of the Rig Rundowns on the intertoobs that tell you what he uses?

One of my best friends from high school, Perry Bean, does most of the Rig Rundown's for metal bands.  I doubt he did the one for E7F because he thinks they're a bunch of poser pussy's .... I tend to agree ... but that's for another post.  
#10
Quote by Xander_X
One of my best friends from high school, Perry Bean, does most of the Rig Rundown's for metal bands.  I doubt he did the one for E7F because he thinks they're a bunch of poser pussy's .... I tend to agree ... but that's for another post.  


You realize that there are a LOT of people doing rig rundowns, right? Not just your old buddy from high school...

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/19927-rig-rundown-avenged-sevenfolds-synyster-gates-zacky-vengeance-and-johnny-christ

#11
Sing about the problems that plague the privileged with a clothespin on your nose.
Quote by Axelfox
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
#12
dspellman
Actually John, Chris, or Perry do almost every single one, and Perry does the large majority of the metal bands.
#13
Quote by Xander_X
dspellman
Actually John, Chris, or Perry do almost every single one, and Perry does the large majority of the metal bands.


Again, Premier Guitar is not the only publication on the internet doing rig rundowns. And I really miss Rebecca Dirks. I'd trade all three of them to have her back.

Okay, so that's out of the way and you have a rig rundown not done by Perry to read and view.

Things i wasn't aware of:

He has sustainers on all three of those guitars. He's using the sustainiac driver, and that's also his neck pickup. The tech seemed to mumble that Syn was using an SD Invader in the bridge of his guitars, and that likely means that he uses it for everything. The sustainiac driver isn't a great neck pickup. I also wasn't aware that he's using Axe-FX and the MIDI board that you can buy for it for everything that isn't a wah and isn't his signature amp. And you'll also notice that he's using a big old ISO box with a 4x12 in it with condensor (?) mike(s) close-miking the upper left speaker. You could probably invite friends and have tea in that iso box. It's the fourth bedroom for your house.

You also got information on the three basic tunings he's using (though one was a bit confusing). In fact, I'd say that the three or four major things involved in getting his tone would be 1. Use an Invader, 2. Make sure your guitar has a Sustainer, 3. Buy a $2400 Axe-FX and a $750 (or whatever) MIDI board for it...and one wah pedal and 4. Make sure you run through his signature amp (whatever that is) and into a 4x12 in an ISO box. I don't know how much THAT costs.

Job done.

Oh, and he uses a stiff pick of some unknown brand and material. And he mentions the string gauge and brand somewhere in the video. And you need an Audio Technica wireless, because that's what he uses. Well, live anyway.
Last edited by dspellman at Jul 5, 2017,
#14
Here are a few more bits that might help out.  Some they covered vaguely in the rig rundown, but this should make it a lot more clear...

Tone itself comes mainly from the amp.  You can see his settings in the video.  It might be hard to find a Hellwin.  Before that he used a Marshall JVM 410H.  And before that he used Bogner.  His fingers don't make any difference in the tone when he's sustaining a chord or chugging.  But yeah, it will take a lot of technique to sweep pick like him, get the pinch/whammy harmonics right, and vibrato.  He uses a fairly generic high-gain tone, so he's able to get nearly the same tones out of any of those amps.

If you don't have $3-$5K available for one of those amps (and a decent cab), you can get a Zoom G1Xon for $70, and plug it into the aux jack on your Spider and get close enough while you save up.  Effects aren't critical to his sound; he programs generic stuff into his Axe FX, but you can get close enough with the G1Xon, so you don't need to go out and buy pedals.

BTW, I bought a JVM 410H back when Synester was still playing Bogners and it sits collecting dust because my Zoom multi-effects do everything I need them to, going through the aux input on a 30 watt practice amp.

You don't need $300 signature pickups.  The last Invader I bought, I paid $50 for, and the only difference with his signature Invaders is the finish on the pole pieces.  Also, I don't know what Duncans you have, but it's hard to hear a difference between my Duncan Blackouts, Dimarzio D-Activators, and Invaders.  And don't let Guitar Center touch your guitar.  Look up soldering on Youtube and do it yourself.  It's not that hard and in the long run is less trouble than if you let some hack butcher your guitar.  Really, there was a bigger change in tone when I upgraded from the licensed Floyd Rose trem to a real one, than when you switch among my guitars with the different pickups.

Strings won't make much difference in tone, but it will help with the feel when playing his style in Drop D--the video was vague, but he's generally used Ernie Ball Skinny Top-Heavy Bottoms (STHB).  I don't recommend Ernie Balls because they rust fast and can ruin your frets quickly if you don't change them every couple of weeks.  I've had some come out of the package rusty already when brand new.  You'll need to tighten the trem springs a little more with STHB strings because while the top 3 strings are like what you'd find in a set of 10s, the bottom 3 are equivalent to what you'd find in a set of 11s (in case you weren't familar).  I'd recommend STHB for any Drop D guitar, regardless of what you're playing.

The thick picks he uses are Dunlop Gators in 2.0mm.  They last forever.  I bought a bag of them about 10 years ago and am still using them with half of them still in the bag.  They don't really affect tone, but they make it easier to pick fast when you're used to them.  It might take time to get used to them so that you don't make a bunch of extra noise with them.

Here are some thoughts on the Sustainiac.  I retrofitted one into a guitar about 8 years ago:
- It has zero affect on tone
- Yeah, it is a cool toy, but it doesn't have many practical uses.  Do you even know what songs Syn uses it on or how he uses it?  I couldn't tell you.  But then again, I haven't been into them much since the Self Titled tour, and he just started using the Sustainiac live around then
- The most fun you can have with the Sustainiac is with the harmonic effects (simulated feedback, at any volume).  But honestly, the Digitech Freqout probably does it better
- Unless you're good with routers and soldering, I don't recommend installing a Sustainiac.  I also wouldn't trust a tech to do it; there's so many options in how to set it up, that you really need to know what you're doing and what you like to get it right for you.  If you just want it to work like Syn's does, then buy one of the many "S"-model Schecters that come with a Sustainiac

Hope this is actually helpful.
#16
The answer, as stated by some above, is the amp. Just buy the same amp and you're there from a gear standpoint. For fx, you don't really need to worry so much, any delay/ modulation will get you close enough.   He has a signature amp so it's really not that complicated  - buy it! 
#18
Quote by CrazyTNTdog
reverb66 His signiture amp was limited edition and I can't find anyone who has it.

He has used Marshalls, Bogners and Mesa's as well - just google his past rigs.  There's definitely something out of those.  
#19
You don't need one of his overpriced signature amps to get his sound. I'd prefer a Mesa any day over his signature amp
#20
what you need is a new amp..? err....rig.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#21
Quote by SpeedSterHR


Here are some thoughts on the Sustainiac.  I retrofitted one into a guitar about 8 years ago:
- It has zero affect on tone
- Yeah, it is a cool toy, but it doesn't have many practical uses.  Do you even know what songs Syn uses it on or how he uses it?  I couldn't tell you.  But then again, I haven't been into them much since the Self Titled tour, and he just started using the Sustainiac live around then
- The most fun you can have with the Sustainiac is with the harmonic effects (simulated feedback, at any volume).  But honestly, the Digitech Freqout probably does it better
- Unless you're good with routers and soldering, I don't recommend installing a Sustainiac.  I also wouldn't trust a tech to do it; there's so many options in how to set it up, that you really need to know what you're doing and what you like to get it right for you.  If you just want it to work like Syn's does, then buy one of the many "S"-model Schecters that come with a Sustainiac


I use the Fernandes Sustainers; I've got several guitars that have them installed. Gary Brawer in San Francisco is probably the go-to guy for anything sustainer/sustainiac. He's got mine installed so that I have a real single-coil size neck pickup *and* the sustainer/sustainiac driver in the same pickup ring. Tricky, but it works perfectly. He's also got mine installed so that I can change sustainer parameters with external pots. Makes a noticeable difference. The FreqOut pedal is okay, but operates in a completely different way. The sustainer physically moves the string (s), so there are things you can do with a sustainer/moving string (barely touch a pick to it, for example) that you can't do with the FreqOut pedal, and it's right there on your guitar (especially nice if you're working pretty far away from your amp/pedalboard) and you have all your control right with you.
#22
Quote by dspellman
I use the Fernandes Sustainers; I've got several guitars that have them installed. Gary Brawer in San Francisco is probably the go-to guy for anything sustainer/sustainiac. He's got mine installed so that I have a real single-coil size neck pickup *and* the sustainer/sustainiac driver in the same pickup ring. Tricky, but it works perfectly. He's also got mine installed so that I can change sustainer parameters with external pots. Makes a noticeable difference. The FreqOut pedal is okay, but operates in a completely different way. The sustainer physically moves the string (s), so there are things you can do with a sustainer/moving string (barely touch a pick to it, for example) that you can't do with the FreqOut pedal, and it's right there on your guitar (especially nice if you're working pretty far away from your amp/pedalboard) and you have all your control right with you.

Cool.  My go-to guy for Sustainiac stuff was Alan Hoover with Maniac Music in Indianapolis.  He was a wealth of knowledge when I installed mine, and lots more helpful than the guys were at the Schecter factory in Burbank.  

What pup config is your guitar w/the real pup nestled in with the Fernandez driver?  SDH? SDSS?  SDSH? (S=single coil, D=driver, H=humbucker).
Is the real single coil between the neck and the driver or between the driver and the other pup(s)?  Looking at the Sustainiac documentation again, I can see you you could hack it to do what Gary did on yours.  Just disable the pre-amp, and run the neck pup signal thru the wiring for the middle pup.  It might cause some unintended effects, or it might work perfectly--I'm not going to try it with mine to find out, though.

What parameters are you changing with pots?  Are you talking push/pull pots where the pot swipe controls vol/tone and the push/pull controls Fernandez parameters?  Mine uses one micro toggle for sustainer on/off; the other for harmonic mode control; and the push/pull on the volume pot for neck pup pre-amp gain control (up for normal single coil tone/down to switch on pre-amp gain to simulate humbucker).  The push/pull on the tone pot splits the bridge pup.

Clearly, the FreqOut won't work like an Ebow, which is half of a sustainer's functionality.  But it will give you a lot more control over feedback effects than the Sustaniac will, even if you have to go back to the pedalboard.  Also it will work with all your guitars.  The last thing I want to do is get 9 more Sustainiacs, and I never really got into the Ebow functionality.  But I probably won't buy a FreqOut either; not worth the real-estate on my boards.  I get all the feedback I truly need at modest volumes by using compression and boost effects in my Zoom MS-50s, G1Xon, and G5, but it would be awesome if I could get a FreqOut model in those MFX.

I don't know how the Sustainiac neck tone compares to a Duncan Invader in the neck.  My Schecter came with Duncan Designed Detonators, and I replaced the bridge with an Invader at the same time I did the Sustainiac retrofit.  The bridge Detonator sounded 90-95% similar to the Invader thru a Marshall JVM, and nearly identical through modelers.  I put it in a Strat and gigged with it for years until I got tired of the microphonic aspect it developed shortly after the transplant, then replaced it with that $50 Invader.  I have 2 other guitars with Invaders in the bridge, but they have Duncan Jazzs in the necks, so there's not much point comparing those neck pups to the Sustainiac.  I always use the bridge pup in the Schecter anyway. 
Last edited by SpeedSterHR at Jul 7, 2017,
#23
My configuration has a DiMarzio Fast Track II (a humbucker, but single-coil size) in the neck pickup ring, with the Sustainer driver on the fretboard side. I've seen people try this and end up with a squealing mess, so I'm glad Gary handled it. The Fast Track II is pretty hot (18K, I think) and was originally supposed to be used as a bridge pickup in a Super Strat. It's *really* nice as a neck pickup, but quite a bit louder than any of the bridge pickups I use. I'm using the Fernandes 401 board, which, like the Sustainiac, has two microswitches. On my guitar, they're right behind the Floyd Rose, rather than tucked into the spaces near the controls, and the circuit board has its own rout in the back, rather than sharing the control cavity, and there's a separate battery box on the back as well. There's a 9V battery in the control cavity, but it's running a Chandler Tone X. I've got the Sustainer Intensity pot run out to one of the external pots, and that's the only one that's running anything on the sustainer board.

The sustainer/sustainiac drivers don't compare to a Duncan Invader at all. My bridge pickup is a slightly hot (9.2K) '57 on one guitar, a Suhr Aldrich on another, and a DiMarzio super distortion on a third. I'll have to check the rest; don't remember. I've pulled Invaders off the guitars that had them. One got Tom Andersons, don't recall what the other ones got, but I'm not much of an Invader fan.

I can't say I'd mind a FreqOut built into the Helix.