#1
application: practice amp (HOME USE ONLY FOR NOW) for extreme metal, 90s style, death/doom, some black metal (Hades, for example) but black metal is not a priority at the moment. examples of what I will play normally: Obituary, Death, and various doom/dark/melodic death metal from Europe.

budget: $400 to $600.

other notes: Prefer a 12" speaker. Using an Ibanez RGD with DiMarzio bridge pickup for the moment. Will likely use an overdrive and an EQ pedal in conjunction with any given tube amp.

Very likely I'm buying from Guitar Center for a good discount and financing.

Possible options thus far: 

Orange Micro Dark... and I'm not sure about selecting a cabinet for it just yet, but I would prefer a single 12-inch (maybe a 10" would work)

Fender Super Champ X2.

Bugera  G5 (that isn't geared toward country and blues).

Fender Bassbreaker 1x12 combo amp (15-watt).

I am not limiting my scope to these amps; if you have another idea, please suggest it.


One last thing: Very likely I've ruled out all Blackstar amps; they sound like shit to me, but I've not had a chance to use in conjunction with a stompbox yet, so I'm not entirely sure.
Last edited by todtong at Jul 7, 2017,
#2
I like the Orange of those listed. The Carvin V3MC would seem to fit the bill, too.
https://carvinaudio.com/collections/v3m-series/products/v3mc

Here's Pif, the guitarist from Thira demoing his:

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#3
Used Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio and whatever 112 can you can find. Then drop a Celestion V30 or clone (like a WGS Veteran30) in when you can.

If you don't need/want all the USB goodness look for a 30W combo.

You may need to go Sweetwater or zzounds and use their finance offers.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#4
If you're willing to go used, consider either a 6505+ 112 combo or a 5150/6505 212 combo (a better amp than the 112, but it's worth noting that it weighs 85 lbs.). Both of those are readily available for $350-$500 at GC, last time I checked. You'd maybe need a fuzz pedal for doom metal but all of those other genres would be covered handsomely especially with a boost and an EQ in the loop.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#5
dannyalcatraz  If I were to buy this Carvin used from Guitar Center, what do you think would be the best value in a 1x12 or 2x12 cabinet from the Guitar Center site (either used or new) to accompany it???
#6
I'm also wondering if anyone here has tried the Fender Bassbreaker amps or the Bugera G5 head. Seems like the Bugera 5 watt is a good value with fairly good sound. Fender bassbreaker will likely need stompboxes to complete the metal sound (eg. OD-808).

Anyone have opinions on these two options?
#7
Bassbreaker are nice. Definitely worthy of consideration.

You mention a Carvin at GC- could you link to it?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#9
KailM I've gotta say that the Peavey 6505 has NOT pleased me either. The Fender EVH 5150 stuff however is where it's at if one has the $$$.
#10
Well, I own a Fender combo with a 12" speaker, and just bought an Orange head and 2x12 cab.

Either will be up to the task, but the 2x12 will give you a bit fuller sound. More punch.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#11
dannyalcatraz Interesting video for me at this moment comparing the DSL 15 and the Fender Bassbreaker.... I have to say that the Marshall sounds more like the classic, sinister sound of death metal that loved in the early and mid-90s, the sound that sent chills down your spine when that music was fresh. The mids sound better in the Marshall to me.
Last edited by todtong at Jul 7, 2017,
#12
You said it yourself- the Bassbreaker may need pedals to achieve the tone you seek.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#13
Quote by todtong
KailM I've gotta say that the Peavey 6505 has NOT pleased me either. The Fender EVH 5150 stuff however is where it's at if one has the $$$.

Just curious, what didn't you like about the 6505?  I have both a 6505+ and a regular 6505 head, and I like them both better than the EVH 5150 III.  The EVH series sounds a tiny bit neutered comparatively.  Better cleans though.  All in all though, they aren't worlds apart tonally, regarding their high-gain settings.  
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
Last edited by KailM at Jul 7, 2017,
#14
Quote by todtong
KailM I've gotta say that the Peavey 6505 has NOT pleased me either. The Fender EVH 5150 stuff however is where it's at if one has the $$$.


Really comes down to what sort of tone you want. The 5150/6505's are more raw sounding than the EVH models.
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#15
KailM I believe that at the correct volume, those two amps will sound similar, plus I am an inexperienced guitar player (bass player and vocalist at my musical core). So, my perception really isn't worth the curiosity if I'm honest; just another opinion from a less experienced player. However, at lower volume, I think the tubes in the EVH 50 watt head provide better crunch than what you get in a 6505 1x12 combo amp. 

I decided to buy a Marshall DSL 40C because I like the classic death/doom sound too much. I've read that the other option is an Engl for this style or preference of sound, but they are a bit more $$$; maybe later.

Now, I just need to decide on a pedal, but it's not that urgent as I think the sound I get from the 40C will suffice for a little while. Seems Maxon have the OD pedals I would want. Or, the Rat pedal with a Marshall would potentially sound just like Trevor Peres.
#16
5150/6505/6505+ and EVH 5150s all have more gain in the crunch channel than anyone could ever want (or use). If you're looking for the best crunch channel, the 5150 III's blue channel is pretty damn awesome.

I'm sure you're really like the DSL!
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#18
Quote by diabolical
Carvin V3 or V3m - you can buy from their website, they also run specials all the time. For made in USA amp the price is really good.

Those amps sound good, however, I decided to go with the traditional death metal sound in the Marshall. No great reason to compromise or experiment when the quality is already known. Some other time I may try Carvin.
#19
Guitarists. "Traditional Death Metal Sound in the Marshall."



And look, they've already been fleeced.
Last edited by dspellman at Jul 7, 2017,
#20
dspellman uh-huh. that's useful here. 
guess what? metal has lacked evolution and worthwhile listening for years... so, there's that too. Out of all the talent and energy spent in metal music now, there's little in the sound, rhythm, timbres, vocals, fusion of styles, instrumentation and narrative/lyrics worth a single remark.
#21
dspellman

Baaaaaa humbuckers!
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#22
Quote by todtong
dspellman uh-huh. that's useful here. 
guess what? metal has lacked evolution and worthwhile listening for years... so, there's that too. Out of all the talent and energy spent in metal music now, there's little in the sound, rhythm, timbres, vocals, fusion of styles, instrumentation and narrative/lyrics worth a single remark.


But it builds good neck muscles.



#23
Marshall is actually not that popular in that genre, hard rock is more closely associated with it, thanks to GnR, Les Paul + DSL.
If something works, there's no need to change it. More often I've been forced to experiment because of lack of funds, but it led to some interesting discoveries.
At the end of the day most of the tone is in the fingers.
#24
Quote by todtong
guess what? metal has lacked evolution and worthwhile listening for years... so, there's that too. Out of all the talent and energy spent in metal music now, there's little in the sound, rhythm, timbres, vocals, fusion of styles, instrumentation and narrative/lyrics worth a single remark.

Eh...I don't think you're listening hard enough or looking in the right places.  Gotta go underground (sorta) to find the great stuff.

Anyway, I digress.  You're going to love that DSL -- great choice!  You might struggle to get a real death metal tone out of it without a more substantial boost though.  It's more of a mid-gain amp that, when boosted, will get a killer thrash tone.  You could probably do black metal too (I play a lot of black metal, and actually find that I don't need as much gain for that genre as I do for death metal).  A lot of people recommend a speaker upgrade in that amp, and I concur based on the little time I spent playing a DSL 40C.  A Celestion Vintage 30, Eminence Governor, or WGS Veteran 30 would all breathe some life into that amp; as the stock speaker is a little muffled sounding. 
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#25
KailM Without buying a stack and given that I don't wanna buy the 6505+ combo amp, I don't know what else I could have bought for a decent death metal sound in a practice amp. It's possible that the recommended Carvin or the Bugera head that I mentioned with the right cabinet would work out well along with an OD stompbox. 

On the other hand, as far as death metal tone goes, it depends on whose death metal tone you're thinking of. When I say "classic death metal sound," it is NOT the later 90s nor the 21st century stuff. I will be the first to admit that the 5150 head blew away the competition in the 90s, but plenty of people I knew in Florida used Marshall very effectively even if the rig required some internal tweaking and/or help from pedals/ME units. If what you consider classic DM tone being close to a Cannibal Corpse, very distorted sound, there's where the difference of perspective is. I always disliked CC's tone and, in fact, they were the worst live show due their awful guitar sound (crappy vocals, boring drummer too) and I saw CC more than a couple of times in the early and mid-90s. Lastly and generally, for me the MB triple rec sound and dbl rec sound has always been garbage; Peavey had them beat 10 times out of 10 in any given player's rig.

Good bonus if what you say about black metal tone from this amp is true.

Thank you for the warning on the stock speaker's "muffled" tone; hopefully it's not a dealbreaker.
Last edited by todtong at Jul 8, 2017,
#26
^^No doubt, Marshall amps were used to great effect at the beginning of death metal. And they were not necessarily modded, but boosted by pedals that were even more heavy hitting than a typical tubescreamer/od. Rat pedals, "cough" Metalzones-cough", and The Godfather of gnarly-- the Boss HM2 were all blended with the distortion of Marshall amps (and others) to make some of the worst (meaning best) death metal tones ever.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#27
Find a used Peavey Vypyr Tube 60

NM. Saw you decided on the 40C
Guitars
- Strandberg OS6, Strandberg CL7, Gibson LP Studio, S570DXQM, RG7421, Mayer Strat, Partscaster

Amps
- TC-50, Mark Five:25, Invective (soon), Vypyr 60
Last edited by Deadpool_25 at Jul 10, 2017,
#28
Deadpool_25 Thanks man. It's a nice idea, but I've never tried one of those and lately I've not been pleased with Peavey. Got the Marshall 40-watt already.
#29
KailM Here in USA, the Dual Rectifier was raped in similar fashion. For example, this band that I auditioned for circa '97 used two Boss Metalzones in unison into dual Mesa Recto stacks, luckily I found some video from that time so you can hear it:


BTW, one of the worst drummers ever. I decided not to return for second practice but they were interesting from theatrical standpoint and have become somewhat of a legend is Texas BM.

KailM you'd probably enjoy this more - that's the studio version of that same material, you can hear the brootz on guitar much better here:


OP - good call for DSL40C, best choice for what you want IMO.
#30
Quote by diabolical
KailM Here in USA, the Dual Rectifier was raped in similar fashion. For example, this band that I auditioned for circa '97 used two Boss Metalzones in unison into dual Mesa Recto stacks, luckily I found some video from that time so you can hear it:

BTW, one of the worst drummers ever. I decided not to return for second practice but they were interesting from theatrical standpoint and have become somewhat of a legend is Texas BM.

KailM you'd probably enjoy this more - that's the studio version of that same material, you can hear the brootz on guitar much better here:


Nice -- thanks for posting.  Were two Metalzones actually necessary?     I guess so because that sounded gnarly.  I'm actually not that fussy about death metal tone -- I like all sorts.  Really, it's waaaay more about the riffs and how the bass guitar compliments the guitars and drums to make it sound deep and heavy.  But the right tone is the icing on the cake.  Some of my favorite all-time death metal tones are Death's "Human" album, Decapitated's "Winds of Creation," and Slaughter of the Soul by At the Gates -- all of which are completely different from each other.

I'm working on a quite fast death metal song right now in which I blended a little HM-2 in with my 6505's lead tone.  It's pretty much the normal 6505 tone I get with my EQ pedal (which is already brutal as-is) but with just a touch of chainsaw and added low-end grind from the HM-2.  It's sounding pretty neat.     
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
Last edited by KailM at Jul 10, 2017,
#31
^ from what I remember that guy had the two Metalzones set up differently, using their mid eq's creatively. It was brutal in the room. Kinda getting the grind from the Mesa and then the two Boss pedals were adding buzz and fizz on top of it. Kinda reminded me of original Hellhammer sound but with better definition. Totally brutal!
#32
diabolical I think that sound is reminiscent of Sammy Duet (Acid Bath)... except that it's a different style of music. I think it's the use of chorus that defines its sound (?).

I think this is better:
 
Last edited by todtong at Jul 11, 2017,
#33
Deadpool_25 Do you use anything like amplitude for guitar?  At this point, I am pretty sure this exercise of finding the right amp with pedals is a fucking antiquated pain in the ass, easily replaced by either using a desktop with headphones/speakers or a portable device (mobile phone/tablet). 

Only thing I'm trying to find out is how easily I can play an mp3 track while also running amplitude in order to play along (esp. doing this through headphones for the time being). 

Got any experience with this?  
#34
Sorry no. I don't use Amplitube.
Guitars
- Strandberg OS6, Strandberg CL7, Gibson LP Studio, S570DXQM, RG7421, Mayer Strat, Partscaster

Amps
- TC-50, Mark Five:25, Invective (soon), Vypyr 60