#1
Hi all
I've recently bought a 6505; when I tried it, at the volume I could play it, all seemed fine, but on my first rehearsal I noticed that the gain lacks the right amount of brightness and corrosive end, having an excessive blunt bottom end that kills the sizzling sharp end a good gain should have. Could that be an issue tubes related? I've tried to discard another possibilities such as Nazgul pickups (the ones I use), poor cable work or the likes. Not sure of when to tell whether the tubes should be replaced or not. Many thanks in advance. 
#3
Quote by jonalcover
Hi all
I've recently bought a 6505; when I tried it, at the volume I could play it, all seemed fine, but on my first rehearsal I noticed that the gain lacks the right amount of brightness and corrosive end, having an excessive blunt bottom end that kills the sizzling sharp end a good gain should have. Could that be an issue tubes related? I've tried to discard another possibilities such as Nazgul pickups (the ones I use), poor cable work or the likes. Not sure of when to tell whether the tubes should be replaced or not. Many thanks in advance. 


It's definitely not the Nazgul-- I have one in my main guitar and that pickup is a beast across the whole EQ spectrum. We really need to know a little bit more to help. Is it a 6505 or 6505+ (there is a difference in tone). Head or combo? And as a baseline, what are all your settings, including pre gain and post gain; resonance and presence? Finally, exactly what genre of music (be as specific as possible) are you playing?
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#5
KailM Hi pal thanks for replying. It's a standard model, not plus, and it's a head; 120W. The cab is also peavey, 5150, and all seems in fairly good condition. I play an Ibanez with the full Nazgul set, both bridge and neck; the settings I had to make the most of the brightness were, presence and high both fully opened, mids around 4.5, and bass around 4; resonance also quite behind, around 5, still would sound dull and murky, gain was on 6; really frustrating. We play death-thrash metal, pretty old school. I ended up cranking the Yamaha multiband distortion to catch up with the tone of the other guitar player, and what was quite baffling is that his guitar with exactly identical gear sounded killer, even though his pickups are of considerably less quality, which immediately made me concern about the tubes. 
#6
Thread was moved to forum: Guitar Gear & Accessories
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#7
Definitely sounds like something is up with preamp tubes if you're struggling to get enough high end even with such extreme settings.

To be certain, have you tried different cables? Different guitars etc?
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#9
Quote by jonalcover
T00DEEPBLUE Yeah, swapped cabs over, my speaker cable for a thicker copper one... nothing would help. 

What were you using before you used said 'thicker copper one'?
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#11
Did you try it with your other guitarist's cab? I always found my old 6505 212's sheffield speakers were pretty dull compared to using a mesa 4x12 loaded with V30s.
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#13
Check the tubes. I just had this problem with a used 6505+ that I just bought. Luckly I won't wait long because the day I bought it I ordered tubes.
"It means a lot to me that my darkness can connect with your darkness and make it OK." - James Hetfield

Guitar: Ibanez S370
Seymour Duncan Pick ups
SH-4 JB (Neck)
Quarter Pound (Strat)
SH-6 Distortion (Bridge)

Amp:
Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo

Pedals:
Boss NS-2
Boss DS-1
#15
Quote by jonalcover
Phantumgreyhey thanks mate; really helpful. I shall

I don't know if you care where I got them from but I went to eurotubes .com

You can search for your specific head/amp and get all the tubes you need. 
"It means a lot to me that my darkness can connect with your darkness and make it OK." - James Hetfield

Guitar: Ibanez S370
Seymour Duncan Pick ups
SH-4 JB (Neck)
Quarter Pound (Strat)
SH-6 Distortion (Bridge)

Amp:
Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo

Pedals:
Boss NS-2
Boss DS-1
#16
Oh and when you change the tubes make sure you clean the sockets. It's usually good practice. YouTube is your friend on that one. Also check since that the standard 6505 that you don't have to Bias the tubes. Mine is fixed, I'm not certain if its the same for yours. 
"It means a lot to me that my darkness can connect with your darkness and make it OK." - James Hetfield

Guitar: Ibanez S370
Seymour Duncan Pick ups
SH-4 JB (Neck)
Quarter Pound (Strat)
SH-6 Distortion (Bridge)

Amp:
Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo

Pedals:
Boss NS-2
Boss DS-1
#17
PhantumgreyI did check Eurotubes and they had the right model for the full set; not so sure about postage and delivery time to the UK though. We have some distributors here that sell the JJ among others. Shame they do not supply high gain versions, as Eurotubes does
#18
Quote by jonalcover
PhantumgreyI did check Eurotubes and they had the right model for the full set; not so sure about postage and delivery time to the UK though. We have some distributors here that sell the JJ among others. Shame they do not supply high gain versions, as Eurotubes does

I'm sorry I always make that mistake and don't check where people are from. My apologies. Just write down the model numbers of the tubes and see if you can buy from different places maybe? Best of luck! 
"It means a lot to me that my darkness can connect with your darkness and make it OK." - James Hetfield

Guitar: Ibanez S370
Seymour Duncan Pick ups
SH-4 JB (Neck)
Quarter Pound (Strat)
SH-6 Distortion (Bridge)

Amp:
Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo

Pedals:
Boss NS-2
Boss DS-1
#19
Quote by jonalcover
PhantumgreyI did check Eurotubes and they had the right model for the full set; not so sure about postage and delivery time to the UK though. We have some distributors here that sell the JJ among others. Shame they do not supply high gain versions, as Eurotubes does


The JJ's might not be *quite* the same. Eurotubes (I've discovered) has some of the best testing gear around and they actually do test their tubes. And they reject some. And those go to someone else who might not be as picky.

I don't think you really need to go with higher gain preamp tubes in the 6505; that's a bit like putting sugar on your cake.
#20
dspellman Good point on Eurotubes testing. 
"It means a lot to me that my darkness can connect with your darkness and make it OK." - James Hetfield

Guitar: Ibanez S370
Seymour Duncan Pick ups
SH-4 JB (Neck)
Quarter Pound (Strat)
SH-6 Distortion (Bridge)

Amp:
Peavey 6505+ 112 Combo

Pedals:
Boss NS-2
Boss DS-1
#21
Quote by dspellman
The JJ's might not be *quite* the same. Eurotubes (I've discovered) has some of the best testing gear around and they actually do test their tubes. And they reject some. And those go to someone else who might not be as picky.

I don't think you really need to go with higher gain preamp tubes in the 6505; that's a bit like putting sugar on your cake.

Completely agree with all of this.  I actually put lower gain tubes in mine to tame it a bit and make the gain knob have a more usable sweep.  
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#22
Quote by jonalcover
KailM Hi pal thanks for replying. It's a standard model, not plus, and it's a head; 120W. The cab is also peavey, 5150, and all seems in fairly good condition. I play an Ibanez with the full Nazgul set, both bridge and neck; the settings I had to make the most of the brightness were, presence and high both fully opened, mids around 4.5, and bass around 4; resonance also quite behind, around 5, still would sound dull and murky, gain was on 6; really frustrating. We play death-thrash metal, pretty old school. I ended up cranking the Yamaha multiband distortion to catch up with the tone of the other guitar player, and what was quite baffling is that his guitar with exactly identical gear sounded killer, even though his pickups are of considerably less quality, which immediately made me concern about the tubes. 


Yeah, like the other guys said, I'd start with preamp tubes.  There's probably just one that's gone bad, but it wouldn't hurt to order a few.  You should never need to dime the treble and presence knobs on that amp -- that tells me for sure something is not right.  Those two knobs turned up to 10 should induce "ice-pick-to-the -brain" syndrome.  I run both of mine at 6 and there's more than enough brightness.  Your other settings are not bad though.  Should be plenty of bass without being muffled at all.

Are you boosting it with an OD pedal at all?  That could certainly help for your genre.  Whenever I play without one (I have the same amp as you, BTW), I find that it does sound a bit muffled until I really crank it up to gig levels.  And I have to run the bass and resonance at like "4."  With an OD boosting it, you can set your gain much lower, run your bass higher, and it still sounds much tighter and more focused, yet massive and heavy.

But again, I think this is a tube issue -- as you were likely playing loud enough to get out of the muffled tendency of the amp when it's not boosted.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#23
Quote by metalmingee
Completely agree with all of this.  I actually put lower gain tubes in mine to tame it a bit and make the gain knob have a more usable sweep.  

Agreed.  Anybody pushing "higher gain" tubes on a 6505 owner needs his head examined.  What the amp needs is LESS gain.  I run 5751s in V1 and the PI and it sounds bloody fantastic.  Still enough gain before "4" on the dial for music as brutal as it gets -- but the tone is a lot clearer and I can hear individual strings in big chords much better.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#24
KailM Not an OD, but I happened to have, apart of the chromatic tuner and graphic equaliser, the odd distortion one, a Yamaha multiband, and sort of saved my ass for the day so to speak. For what I can gather of all the comments sounds about time to replace valves. Thanks. 
#25
dementiacaptain Hey here's the sample as promised. As you could expect it sounds like my ass, and that's about the best it can get. Bass - 5, Mids - 4, Treble fully opened, presence - 8, Resonance - 6, Gain - 7... I tried to highlight the fast palmutings, such as triplets and the likes, which is where the sound gets poorer and it shows how feeble it is. Thanks. 
#26
Sorry, I forgot thatthe site probably won't let you show a YouTube link since you are so new. It isn't showing up. In any case, I'm in consensus with everyone here, it is almost certainly preamp tubes.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#27
balls! i hope this doesn't happen to my 6505 

edit: #NotHelpful
It's all about feel
#28
hopespaul it shall at some point pal. fairly normal as they wear out so to speak, and start sounding muddy. good news is, if your head has been recently serviced, or is not too old, you might not have to bother in about 6 years, depending on how much do you use it