#1
Hi guys,
I'm kinda new here and... Well, as you might notice, I've a problem with my Peavey 6505+ amplifier. Last time I was searching an ideal tone for playing songs from Amon Amarth discography, but - hell, I can't find this tone. Can you guys help me out? I'm using 112 combo with plugged Vision XE 600 guitar which I plan to change soon for Ibanez RGA8-BK (btw, can you tell me if this would be a good choice?), no pedals included, except noise gate :p Thanks for help if you're gonna be interested
#2
A lot of the problem is likely being caused by having unrealistic expectations. To solve it, you need to have some background understanding of why your favorite band sounds the way it does.

The sound you're hearing from the Amon Amarth records is multi tracked and very heavily post-processed to optimize how they sound in the mix. You also need to understand that a ton of the low end present in those records comes from the bass guitar and the bass drums, not the guitars themselves. If you listen to a lot of classic rock and metal records with the bass guitar and drums removed from the mix you'll see exactly what I mean. It illustrates the point that expecting a guitar amp to reproduce all the frequencies that make a final mix sound so huge is not realistic. You'll also hear that the way guitar amps are EQ'd in a mix is different to the way they're EQ'd on their own. Guitars that are EQ'd for a mix have a lot more midrange and a lot less bass than people expect, and especially when compared to the EQ settings people typically use when using the amp just by itself. They take most of the bass out and bump the mids up because otherwise in a full mix, the low end created by the guitars begins to step on the toes of the bass player which makes the mix sound really muddy and the guitars struggle to be clearly heard. It's a very common beginner's trap when they first get a band that they don't understand why they cannot hear themselves. And this is pretty much always why; they're using the same EQ settings in the band as they are in the bedroom.

With all this in mind, it becomes obvious that the context in which your using your amp and the way Amon Amarth used theirs when recording those albums is completely different. And when it comes to being clearly heard and sounding good, context means everything.

Please bear this in mind when asking questions about how to sound like your favorite band's records as its importance cannot be understated.
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#3
raptor331 As T00DEEPBLUE is saying, a lot of the magic you hear is the production qualities. But further, there is no magic, universal knob positioning that will make you sound exactly like what you are thinking. You have to work with things relative to your guitar, your playing, even taking into consideration the room you are playing in. And if your playing is not up to snuff, then yes- sadly you will not sound like a professional, master guitarist. But that is something to work towards, though.

Here is a basis for you. Start on your lead channel (whatever is the highest gain), with all your EQ knobs pointing at 12 o'clock. Use the bridge pickup on your guitar, volume and tone maximum. Put your master volume to a reasonable listening level. Then, bump the gain up on the channel until you get it to the point where it sounds "right", then adjust the master volume to compensate. From there, make small EQ adjustments to get the sound in your head. I would encourage to use something like a Tubescreamer pedal, just to give your amp a slight kick in gain, compression, sustain, and to help your EQ signature out a bit. With the pedal, you set the amp to the gain level right before it is "right", then use the Tubscreamer to get it all the way there. You typically set the gain on the pedal low, but the volume high, and tone to taste.

Also, having your guitar professionally set up by a luthier can work wonders for your playing.
Last edited by Will Lane at Jul 28, 2017,
#4
Okay guys, thank you very much for advices talking about my guitar, it's pretty... Em... Bad, I mean, most of the forums say that's a waste of money and, well... It is also a waste of money, when talking about upgrading it. Will Lane, idea which u gave at the end is good, but I don't think that visiting a luthier and some other following steps, like for example changing pickups for some EMG's or Nazguls could be better for my wallet than buying a new guitar. That's why I'd like to return to second part of Q - is the Ibanez RGA8-BK worth buying? Or if it isn't, could you propose some other good 8 string guitars below 750-800$?

Oh, I almost forgot. When setting all pointers at 12 o'clock, is presence and resonance included? Also, I don't know how they work, so if someone could explain me their mechanics - I'd be very appreciated
Last edited by raptor331 at Jul 28, 2017,
#5
raptor331 -- What those guys above said is right on the money, but you DO have the right amp for the job -- Amon Amarth do in fact use 6505+'s in their recordings and live.  Regarding your 8-string guitar question,  I wouldn't go there personally, but that's just me.  Amon Amarth use good ol' fashioned 6-string guitars tuned down to B-Standard -- they just use really heavy strings.  Buy a 7 or 8-string guitar if your music requires a huge amount of range, but realize extended range guitars are not necessary to achieve brutal and heavy sounds.  As an aside, if you're not tuning to either B-Standard or Drop-B, your tone won't sound right for their material even if you EQ your amp the same way.

Onto the amp, yours is the 6505+ 112 combo, correct?  I have one of those and also a 120 watt 6505 head.  The combo has a nearly identical circuit to the bigger 6505+ head, and is capable of EXACTLY the same tone - -but it needs some work to unlock its true potential.  One thing you need to be doing is boosting it with a Tubescreamer-type OD pedal.  Almost any OD pedal will do.  The trick is to run the pedal gain at zero, and the level on max, and place the pedal directly between your guitar and amp input.  On the lead channel, you'll run your "pre" gain at about 3 to 3.5.  That's all the gain you'll ever need.  Even with the gain on the OD pedal at zero, it still boosts the gain in your amp.  As for EQ, you can never go wrong by setting everything to 12 o'clock on a 6505, presence and resonance included.  But I always set mine like this:  bass 6.5, mids 6, and highs 6.  Resonance is kind of like  "thump" setting or an EQ for the low-end in your power amp.  I typically set mine exactly where my bass setting is dialed in; around 6.5.  Presence is kind of like your highest highs.  It doesn't really do anything until you're at about 7 on the dial.  Personally, I think it just adds fizz so I set mine at noon and use the treble knob if I need a little more brightness.

Finally, I also recommend an EQ pedal in the effects loop.  But then you run into the real problem with the 112 combo.  As soon as you put anything in the effects loop, the tone goes to shit.  That's because Peavey installed a buffer in the effects loop of that amp that sucks away all your low-end and adds hornets-nest fizz to your tone.  It's a very easy fix though -- just a $0.25 capacitor soldered to a resistor just behind the effects loop "send" jack inside the amp.  Peavey even endorses that fix.  Once you do that, you can use anything in the effects loop and it'll sound just like it should.  With an EQ in the loop, you can cut-out some of the boxy 500hz mids on this amp, and add a little in the 125hz range to get some thumpy bass that still sits above a bass guitar in a mix, and still sounds really tight.  
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

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Last edited by KailM at Jul 29, 2017,
#6
Allright, I see... I'm really appreciated for your help and advices, KaliM yeah, I know which tuning Amon Amarth is using - I'm actually tuned in B standard, but I'm also using 10-52 strings, which just sound flat on that tuning :P speaking out the question with guitar, it was used here rather to know your opinion about it. I'm just lazy as f... and i hate changing strings or tuning in guitar. Buying an 8-string would be some kind of... "salvation" from doing those things and would let me to play a lot of songs without changing tuning

But anyway, thank you very much guys, for all tips and advices u gave me here. I'll try to buy EQ pedal and capacitor for amp and check how it'll do. I'm expecting really brutal tone... Thanks for help!
#7
If you want a really processed, recorded type tone then try Guitar Rig 5, or Bias FX. You can change the cabs, mics, effects and all that.
#8
raptor331 A couple of very important things to consider, are, the guitar amps speaker, the room you're playing in, where you're sitting in relation to the amp, and how much compression has been used to make the recording playable on home equipment.

First and foremost, there are losses between the sound as played, what is delivered to the board, and finally the DAT. Additional losses are incurred committing the final product to its intended consumer file format. It works somewhat the opposite for you as a player. Those recording losses are not present when you play your rig. So it's apt to sound too bring, too forward, too much transient response. In short, too much of a good thing.

Second, and this is very, very important; guitar speakers have a dispersion pattern that narrows dramatically as frequency increases. So to hear the 24th fret of the e-1 string, you might need to be sitting dead in front of the amp, directly on axis with the speaker. Here's the trick, it's fairly impractical to use that as your playing position, staring right down the voice coil, facing the amp. that's why there are stage monitors pointing up at the player, our the newer in ear type .. But guess what, that position could be exactly where the sound techs, placed the mic when they recorded that amp!

Realistically, you might not be able to stand the sound coming out of that amp, were it the only source, turned that way facing you, with you directly in front of it. Amps set up for live performance, can be fairly intolerable sounding, were you to shove your race in front of it, at maybe say, a foot away. The crowd and the room "eat up", a lot of the high frequency, smoothing out the sound.

Third, any amp needs to be EQ'd at the volume it's being played. So turned down solo, (unless you've already blown out your hearing), you're likely to want to give the bass a healthy boost, and roll off the treble. It's called "loudness contour" and you can look it up on Wiki, along with the names of these two gentlemen "Fletcher & Munson".

To move this along I'm going to say "finally", there's the aspect of how much compression, both individually on each instrument, and overall, to "fit" the vast dynamic range of the original source unto the delivery medium being sold to the consumer.

A little compression won't hurt your playing, In fact, it would likely smooth things out a bit, and "sand off the rough edges", in a manner of speaking.

Besides, you're not growing to to be Amon whoever, so take your inspiration wherever you find it, and use it to create your own sound and style. .
Last edited by Captaincranky at Jul 30, 2017,
#9
Removed as a duplicate. That's two of those in two days. I guess I'm not paying as much attention as I should, and I apologize for it.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Jul 30, 2017,
#10
raptor331 

Gotcha.  I've thought about getting a 7-string for similar reasons.  I mostly play in D Standard and C# Standard but occasionally tune down as low as Drop B, which is likely as low as I'd ever go.  Ideally, I'd rather tune to B Standard to do the songs I like that are in B, but to do so requires VERY heavy strings and I am very particular about how my guitar feels.  For me to tune to B Standard on a 6-string guitar, I'd need something like a  .13-.62 string set to get the feel I like.  With  a 7-string, I could just tune the thing normally and have my B whenever I needed it.  Their necks take a little getting used to though.  And 8-string guitars have literally a tree trunk for a neck; I could never see myself playing one.  Or needing one.   
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#11
KailM, I see xd I often play in E standard or B standard, but... Well... As said before, i'm lazy, so I don't change it often but also I became interest with bands such as Meshuggah or Cannibal Corpse. If I wouldn't like them, propably I'd just focus on bands with higher tunings and then yes - 7-string could be exact choice. But, (un)fortunately, I liked heavy, brutal death metal and djent, so I started thinking about 8-strings, mainly from Ibanez and Schecter. Speaking about the size of neck, yeah, it's horribly "fat", but I think if I want to play this guitar - I'll handle it then and after some time, i'm gonna be used to it
#12
Great suggestions above here and knowledge. I have experience with this amp as well and the first thing I did was swap out the terrible stock speaker it comes with. It will sound much better with a V30 or a G12-65/75 in there. An overdrive pedal and EQ will round it out for you.