#1
Today i was playing around with backing tracks and i was using an F minor backing track... i started playing a C minor scale over it and it sounded well... kinda joyful. what mode am i using there?
This is the Backing Track:
#2
Occams Razor says you were simply playing F minor with a sharp 6th, although depending on how much you used D it may well just have been F minor for all intents and purposes.
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#5
adan.ostos1 
              1   2  3    4   5   6   7
C minor:  C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb 

             1   2  3    4    5   6    7
F minor:  F, G, Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb
                        
                         1   2  3    4    5   #6  7                     1   2  3    4   5   6   7
F minor with #6:  F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D,  Eb  =  C minor: C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb 

F minor instead of C minor for all intents and purposes because if you were rarely playing the D note then you were rarely doing anything with C minor.
#6
adan.ostos1
steven seagull meant the note D.

F minor is F G Ab Bb C Db Eb
C minor is C D Eb F G Ab Bb

The only difference is that C minor has a D instead of a Db.
F minor with a sharp or major 6th is F G Ab Bb C D Eb = F Dorian, but you usually get told off around here if you say you're using a mode, so you might get away with saying you're playing an F Dorian scale instead.
#7
It might help to view it like this as well:

                                                 1 2  3    4   5  6   7
F natural minor:                        F G Ab Bb C Db Eb

                                                 4 5  6   7    1 2    3
C minor (starting on 4th note): F G Ab Bb C D   Eb  

These scales contain almost the same notes. By playing C minor over F, you are implying an F Dorian sound (as said above by NSpen1). The raised 6th note of the F minor scale gives it a happier sound. The "sound" of Dorian can be demonstrated well by playing the following chords: F minor to Bb major . Notice how that Bb major gives a happy sort of feel following the F Minor. If you are using F Natural minor, the 6th note is flattened, which changes that progression to: F minor to Bb minor. If you know the C Minor scale well, it is okay to think of that relationship while playing over F. But also try to play F minor while raising the 6ths note of the scale, which means you are playing F Dorian. The collection of notes are the same as playing Eb Major, the same notes as playing Bb Mixolydian, the same notes as playing C minor, the same notes as playing F Dorian. . . these are all just different ways of naming a collection of notes.
#8
Quote by NSpen1
but you usually get told off around here if you say you're using a mode


Because you're not.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#9
The backing track is two chords - Fm and Bb. Playing the notes in C minor scale will actually work better over it than playing the notes in the F minor scale. They are just one note different, and that one note is D in C minor and Db in F minor. The Bb major chord has a D in it, and this is why the notes in C minor work better over the progression than F minor.

You are playing the F Dorian scale that is the most "logical" choice over the chords in the backing track.

Remember that even if you are playing a scale whose root note is not F over an F minor chord progression, it will still sound like F is the root note. That's because the chords that you are playing over define what key you are in. You could play any notes and it would still sound like you are playing in F. So playing the C minor scale over an F minor chord progression will sound like the F Dorian scale because F will be heard as the root because of the chords.
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#10
so was i playing F dorian? cause I'm SURE AS HELL i wasn't playing F minor... there's a difference and i know it 7.7
#11
Quote by theogonia777
Because you're not.

No, only playing all the same notes that make up that mode
#13
Quote by NSpen1
No, only playing all the same notes that make up that mode


And read and read aren't the same work just because they contain the same letters.
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#15
Quote by adan.ostos1
theogonia777oh fuck off man haha, go jerk off to your modal theory listening to some Petrucci Lol


What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this post?
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#17
Quote by adan.ostos1
theogonia777i already got my answer, you sure didn't help.


Not with that attitude, kiddo.
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#19
there's a very large difference between a key and a scale and it's a pretty major (lol) semantic issue.

a key is where the chord resolves. a scale is just a set of notes. music does not need to (and usually isn't) within any given scale, and thinking about it as such is going to stunt your understanding of harmonic resolution. scale shapes are important for guitarists because it's an easy blueprint to help you break down an otherwise daunting polyphonic instrument, but that significance doesn't translate to real theoretical significance

the big issue that lies therein is that people have changed "mode" from "archaic and obsolete form of tonality" to "cool jazz scale". which, i mean, words change, but it only serve to blur the already confusing line for guitarists between a key and a scale

that has its own implications that i'm not in the mood to rant about, but the main bits are: your improvisation will almost never actually affect harmonic pull, and you shouldn't read too much into your note choice. you have an accidental. that's it. the reason you're getting the "mood" you hear isn't because of scale or note choice as a whole, but how that M6th plays horizontally and vertically to its adjacent tones

it seems like, when you call something Dorian, you're evolving in that you can use a sophisticated term and idea to describe something, but ultimately, you're oversimplifying and cheating yourself out of legitimate analysis
modes are a social construct
#20
Considering op has reverted to unproductive replies, I consider this issue closed.