#1
Hi guys,

As some of you may know, every day we reject about a hundred of tabs. There are many reasons for that, but the most popular one is a tab being a duplicate with minor corrections. And when we reject it according to our rules and offer users to help editing an already existing tab - they refuse by saying something like "I made an effort and I don’t want to give the credit for it to someone else".

Therefore, we decided to bring back the idea of co-authors. We are working to include users who have contributed to tab's improvement by submitting revisions in the tab’s metadata as well as tab author.

We tried to solve this problem before, but faced a lot of problems. For instance, in tabs that were sent anonymously, the co-author's field was perceived as the field of the original author. There were also some technical difficulties, due to which the implementation had to be postponed, but we did not forget about the idea.

FAQ:
Who is a co-author?
Co-author of the tab is any person who edited the tab (made a revision).

Where and in what form will co-authors be displayed?
The username of the co-author will be displayed in the metadata of a tab, next to the tab author’s username. If more than one user helps to edit the tab, their names will be displayed when you hover the cursor over the link with the number of people who contributed to improvements to the tab.




Seeing co-authors on tabs from unregistered users was confusing. Was anything done about that?
Presuming there are co-authors, the author field on tabs from unregistered users will look like this: "Author: Unregistered" to avoid confusion.

Users can make minor corrections to tabs while approving them. Is it enough to be mentioned as a tab’s co-author?
No, correcting a tab in TPA won’t be enough. Only the users who correct a tab after it was submitted will be considered co-authors. 

How will co-authors be sorted?
Co-authors will be sorted in alphabetical order.  

What if don’t want my tab to have any co-authors?
If you don’t want your tab to have any co-authors, reverse the corrections from the editing mode and all the co-authors who made those corrections will be removed from your tab page.
#2
So, let’s say you post a tab, some “co-authors” with a correction, but you know this user in “real-life”, and they’re just sort of a waste-of-space, douchebag,...you just reverse their correction in “edit” mode...what keeps said db from repeatedly attempting to correct the tab?
leave me alone, please.
#3
astrocreep71, if user submits a correction to an existing tab, it should be reviewed by another users in TPA, so if he will spam - he will be banned by mods and his corrections will be reverted even without tab authors' request. Corrections without reviewing are available only to really experienced users and they don't abuse this feature mostly. And, if someone still decide to be a douchebag, you can always write to any tab mod or personally to me and we'll investigate an issue. But that's not quite about this feature, I think
#4
Ha, I was just messing around. It was me. I’m the douchebag. Anyway, I’m going to work. Have an awesome day!
leave me alone, please.
#5
Great news !
This is awesome. Does it work also with Guitar Pro tabs ?
Wouldn't it be better to sort co-authors by edit date ? Might be better and the original author would still get the most credit.

I'm surprised that you still accept anonymous tabs. I think you shouldn't. If the author cares he should register, most anonymous tabs are probably just rip-offs from other sites.
#6
I think this is great! The only thing I don't love really much is that the person who changes a wrong word in a tab ( for example "nigth" to "night") is considered a co-author the same as a person who adds a whole missing part ... And it's not so fair  
Anyway, I like it and I approve this choice because some users really improve tabs a lot and they must have the right to gain recognition of their effort.  
#8
Get permission of tab from me (Tone Jones)
Last edited by Tone Jones at Jul 31, 2017,
#9
Quote by killergege
Great news !
This is awesome. Does it work also with Guitar Pro tabs ?
Wouldn't it be better to sort co-authors by edit date ? Might be better and the original author would still get the most credit.

I'm surprised that you still accept anonymous tabs. I think you shouldn't. If the author cares he should register, most anonymous tabs are probably just rip-offs from other sites.

Yes, it also works with Guitar Pro tabs. I believe the thought was that if it was sorted by edit date it might look as though the person at the top had contributed the most, whereas that should be avoided with alphabetical order. The original author still 'owns' the tab and has the most credit, the others - contributors rather than co-authors really - only have a subsidiary credit.

On your other point, I made a thread suggesting exactly the same thing in another forum, but I guess they have their reasons for still accepting tabs from unregistered users.
#13
There should also be an option to unregister when it comes to co-authoring. So that your name doesn't appear there if you don't want to.
#15
A couple of thoughts on the topic.
(1) So if an original author decides to remove the tab completely or disagree the proposed edits, then a co authors effort gets deleted... its a disincentive to contribute to a tab.
(2) I have used a tab in the past.. and noted credit to the original, but modified the progression, I believe my progression is truer but the author of the original tab I based it on may or may not accept that. In hindsight I could have tried contacting the original author with my progression.

For the first issue I think UG might need to get permanent rights to the published material to make it open source (if that's the right phrase) 

overall I'm a bit cautious of the concept.
#16
Quote by GStringBroke
I think UG might need to get permanent rights to the published material to make it open source (if that's the right phrase) 
overall I'm a bit cautious of the concept.

Probably more "Creative Commons" (CC BY-SA ?) than OpenSource (I don't think it can be applied to other things than software).
It would be awesome if UG was a collaborative site like Wikipedia is... Where anybody can contribute, within some limits, but with no owner, just contributors, without dozens of slightly different versions, just a few "correct" versions (acoustic, other tunings...).
But that's a complete change on how the site works, and not sure everybody is in this kind of mindset .

I think this change goes in the right direction, hopefully it will be well implemented !
#17
I like this idea, because sometimes tabs are initially in such poor shape that it's not totally fair to credit the entire final project to a single individual.
#19
Quote by pjf1961
evfidripiy Not a good idea..........no Thanks

Please explain why it's not a good idea !
#20
killergege I guess It may be a good idea to some... but l just  want to have the option of  keeping my Guitar Pro tabs my own transcription only. 
I spend hours on these things. What would happen If someone edits one of my tabs  and  I  think It's incorrect ? 
  
#21
pjf1961 As mentioned in the OP, you can revert the edits, but I see your point. The risk is that if the option exist, too many people use it which would be annoying if it happens. But yeah, why not add an option.

The thing is : if some user has a few changes to do and can't edit your tab, he will submit a new one based on yours (as it happens everyday right now - and it is allowed if the changes are significant enough). It multiplies the versions for no good reason and your tab might be buried because it doesn't have the latest version number...
So I think that overall it is a good change, I'm mostly worried how people would use it
#22
killergege I understand the concept, there is far too much repetition ....like  do we really need 27 versions of Hotel California....etc  
You really only need one....the correct one....but who's to say ultimately which one that is ?
I think the rating system you have now is effective in directing people to the most accurate Tabs.
I guess my question is .. why is the current system such a problem?
Personally I like a few different versions of each Tab because you tend to learn more... 
But please tell me why I should put  8, 16, or even 24 hours of my time into a full score Guitar Pro tab just to have It changed arbitrarily by others  edits?  
If that happens I  definitely will not submit anything more. 
#23
Quote by GStringBroke
(1) So if an original author decides to remove the tab completely or disagree the proposed edits, then a co authors effort gets deleted... its a disincentive to contribute to a tab.

"Reverting the corrections" feature was implemented many years ago and we didn't change anything new with it. Conception didn't change, we just shown correctors' names

pjf1961 killergege, from the start of this project there was no abusive behaviour for any tabs connected with this feature. The only thing we wanted - to make the correctors' names visible. And, as we see through the some time, it works.

Thank you all for the feedback!
#24
pjf1961 I don't think a user would change it "arbitrarily" and if your work is good there is no reason to do that (and there is still the TPA review and your own review). 
I think this feature is more for people that didn't make that much effort in creating a tab where there are a lot of improvements possible (there are a lot of poor tabs, even with a 5-stars rating, I usually have something to change on most of the tabs I download) or when the tab is abandoned (most of the tabs I comment corrections don't have answers and tabs are not updated).

 You really only need one....the correct one....but who's to say ultimately which one that is ? 

I agree that having a perfect unique tab might be hard. And that's why there are versions. But this feature might help to reduce the volume from 27 VERY similar tabs to 3-4 good tabs, each having it's own twist (a simplified version of the 12-string parts, etc...)

If that happens I  definitely will not submit anything more.

And that would be a loss for UG because I'm not sure a lot of submitters spend 8/16/24 hours on a tab, and your tabs are highly rated.

I have a few tabs I know there are things lacking (for instance a solo I can't tab on the Haggard tab), and I'd be glad that someone updates it. But I agree, I will review every update to my tab and reject any change I don't agree with !
#25
Quote by evfidripiy
pjf1961 killergege, from the start of this project there was no abusive behaviour for any tabs connected with this feature.

That's great !
I didn't realize that the "update someone else's tab" feature already exist !
Maybe I'll have to update of few tabs then
#26
Quote by pjf1961
killergege I understand the concept, there is far too much repetition ....like  do we really need 27 versions of Hotel California....etc  
You really only need one....the correct one....but who's to say ultimately which one that is ?
I think the rating system you have now is effective in directing people to the most accurate Tabs.
I guess my question is .. why is the current system such a problem?
Personally I like a few different versions of each Tab because you tend to learn more... 
But please tell me why I should put  8, 16, or even 24 hours of my time into a full score Guitar Pro tab just to have It changed arbitrarily by others  edits?  
If that happens I  definitely will not submit anything more. 

 Excellent points!
I check the different versions and use the one I like. Sometimes I use parts of different ones to make my own. No one has all the answers. Even the original artists play their songs in different ways. You also made a valid point about the time it takes to make a tab. It has been made even worse by the insistence of some  that there be measures, rests, etc. There are other formats better suited for those things, like standard notation.  If timing is a problem, chords are a better choice for a submission as the chord names letter can be placed over the appropriate lyrics. 
This option should also be available for bass tabs, which would make timing easier to follow with bass notes placed above the lyrics. 
#27
I wrote quite a few tabs in the late 90s onto Harmony Central at the time. A lot of these tabs were added to UG by other contributors as their own. Can I regain authorship/co-authorship if I can prove it?
#29
How will revisions affect the rating... for example someone uploads a say 2/3 star tab... you come in fix 90% of it - but now the tabs is closer to 5 stars - but still listed as the 2 star original?
#30
ofshotthefirst
Yes, it'll have to keep the ratings it originally had. Though if a tab is that bad to start with (and no tab of that low quality should be getting approved nowadays), it shouldn't be corrected to that degree and should probably be removed instead. Too much correction shouldn't be made, it's not fair - to anyone who has made a later more accurate tab - to correct a tab just because it was the first one submitted. We could also end up with 5 duplicate tabs for the same song, which would be pointless.

As to the point above, it may be difficult sometimes, but yes it is possible to objectively say which tab is correct - things like which notes and chords are played, what position they're played in, the timing, etc - these are determinable qualities.
People shouldn't be lazy and make half-assed (text) tabs with no attempt to show the rhythm or put them correctly into bars / measures. Getting the correct chord placement over lyrics can often be the most time consuming part of making a chord chart, and people often don't manage/bother to do that correctly.
#31
The issue of half-assed tabs and people's desire to have actual note-for-note transcriptions is why there are magazines that publish "authentic recorded versions". While I agree that there desperately needs to be a way to separate the wheat from the chaff, there also needs to be less animosity dealt from those who think that their tab is the "be all and end all" tab. Honestly, if your ego is so fragile that it can't bear to hear that you missed a chord here or there, you shouldn't be posting.

As for the method of updating, I think that if someone wants to correct my tab, go ahead...but the original tab credit should remain with me and any corrections should have to have my blessing. Then the "corrector" can be listed as such and their corrections could be displayed by clicking on a "see corrections" link.

If I decline to have my tab changed, that should also be made clear to anyone that views my tab and a link to the alternate tab (with corrections) should be available.

Changes like these are going to be confusing to MANY Ultimate Guitar users and may take time to implement. In the meantime, why don't we all take a breath and be nicer...
Not everyone who frequents UG is as good a player or has the technical expertise that *you* do, so help them along, show them a better way and make suggestions that help them grow as a player and as a contributor!

I had one guy tell me my tab was a piece of crap because I supposedly copied his...

huh?!?

Wouldn't that make *his* tab a piece of crap, too?

There are a bunch of things wrong with tab (which is why there's "standard notation"...) but the truth of the matter is it's a bunch of flawed people trying to put their stamp on something and make it universally usable! And there are some that are fantastic recreations, but many people just want the chords to strum with around a fire, and what's wrong with that??
#32
StringTheoryGtr, the changes have already been made there's a personal tab feature where people can post their stuff and share links, even though they don't show up on the front end of the site.

Professional transcriptions can be wrong. They're just made by people who get paid.

why don't we all take a breath and be nicer...
I think the audience you have is 1, tbh
#34
StringTheoryGtr
well, I read it too
I think Neo maybe rather meant that there's not a problem with people needing to be nicer.

btw it basically does work as you were saying - after being corrected, the tab remains 'yours' with the name of the person who made the correction only added as a contributor. If you don't want your tab to be changed, or you disagree with a correction you can reject it. If it gets approved before you have a chance to do that, you can revert to the previous version.