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#1
A former SS officer known as the Bookkeeper of Auschwitz has been declared fit to go to prison.

Oskar Groening was convicted in July 2015 of being an accessory to the murder of 300,000 Jews and sentenced to four years in prison.

He saw an appeal rejected in November but has remained free pending a decision on his fitness for prison.

Kathrin Soefker, a spokeswoman for prosecutors in Hannover, told news agency DPA they have rejected a defence application for a reprieve on serving the sentence.

She said a doctor considers Groening fit to go to prison as long as there is appropriate medical care.

There has been no formal summons yet for him to start serving his sentence.

Speaking when he was sentenced, Groening said: ‘No one should have taken part in Auschwitz.

‘I know that. I sincerely regret not having lived up to this realisation earlier and more consistently. I am very sorry.’

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/02/bookkeeper-of-auschwitz-oskar-groening-96-declared-fit-for-prison-6823640/

seems kinda pointless tbh, hes got maybe 4 years left at the most and its not like he personally killed anyone. i could understand if he was sentenced 50 years ago but now it just seems like overkill
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#2
agree but at the same time you can hardly say "well he's done terrible things but he's old as hell so no point locking him up".
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#3
That's one day in jail for every ~205 accessories to murder. Not a bad deal. His lawyers must have been Jewish.
#4
Honestly, the fact he made it to 94 without going to jail means he's already won.
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#6
Lol

For real though fuck him
___

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#8
The Nazis secret bee division would've been Hitler's trump card had Captain America not stopped them.
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#9


I guess you could say he did NAZI that one coming
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#10
Quote by ExDementia
I totally read the title as:  

"96 year old nazi beekeeper is goin to jail"

I was looking forward to reading about how the Nazis were weaponizing bees. I'm disappointed now. 


Nazis wouldn't have used Africanised honey bees, because of the whole Aryan thing.
#11
Quote by WaterGod
The Nazis secret bee division would've been Hitler's trump card had Captain Communism not stopped them.
fixed for historical accuracy
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#12
maybe he should have killed Hitler when he had a chance and this wouldn't have happened
WHAT A
HORRIBLE
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HAVE A
CURSE.
#13
Quote by Burgery
fixed for historical accuracy


Oh I get what you mean.

RIP Matt Lauer


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#14
isn't there  a statute of limitations on genocide?
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#15
For most people who even make it to the age of 96, their life is already a polite version of prison. Think about it: outliers aside, a person at that age lives the same monotonous tasks of basic survival in retirement homes. Eating, shitting, and seeing the same exact scenery day after day. The only thing that will change will be a lack of nice scenery, and familiar persons to reminisce with.

Equally as disturbing are younger folks who are just as bloodthirsty to see a man at the end of his life go to prison for something they themselves have no understanding of. I sincerely doubt most folks who are eager to see another person punished for their perceived moral/personal failings, would have acted any differently if they were in his shoes during his time as a bookkeeper (just as he eagerly made notes about people that the nation considered having moral/personal failings i.e. the Jews). It's like the cycle never ends, and it's always spiraling out because of folks who think they're god-like saviors for all mankind.
Last edited by Zaphikh at Aug 3, 2017,
#16
At this point I think it's hardly a punishment as much as it is making an example out of him.
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#17
Quote by Baby Joel
agree but at the same time you can hardly say "well he's done terrible things but he's old as hell so no point locking him up".

You most certainly can.

Let's imagine for a moment that some guy, we'll call him Person-A, goes and shoots up a bunch of folks at his workplace. A catastrophe; senseless violence with many left dead. Afterwards, Person-A flees the scene and makes phone call to his neighbor, we'll call him Person-B, to ask for a ride to the grocery store. Person-B, who is completely oblivious to the massacre that has occurred amicably complies, because he is a good neighbor and wishes to help others in need. Person-B finds Person-A, away from the crime scene, and begins to drive him to the store, when suddenly the vehicle is surrounded by police and both Persons are arrested. Person-A is locked away for life, and Person-B has now become an accessory to a massacre (that they were completely unaware about until the arrest).

Many, many, many years pass since the event, and now the great-grandchildren of the people massacred in the workplace are hungry for revenge. They want to see Person-B die in jail for being an accessory to the massacre that slayed their great-grandparents. Pretty absurd, yeah? Especially since Person-B didn't actually kill anyone, he was just trying to be a good neighbor.

Edit: obviously my example is not to be taken in parallel with the article in the OP, as there are key differences; all I'm saying is that you certainly can dismiss some cases for people "associated" with horrible acts of violence many years down the road. It's very plausible.
Last edited by Zaphikh at Aug 2, 2017,
#21
That's a poignant rebuttal. The emojis really drive the point home.
#23
i'm not the best at saying what i feel but i'll give it a shot

i understand that the holocaust is something i'll never understand. i get that i have no idea what i'd do if i were the junior ss officer. i get all that.

but he opted to join an organisation that was at its very base a truly evil racist bigoted organisation. there aren't words i can use to describe the type of awful that the ss supported. he personally witnessed the mass murder of families. he personally worked at the most infamous deathcamp in human history and tried to avoid the reality of that. he wasn't the person b you described. if anything he's charlie in 'on the waterfront'; the mob's accountant who knows people are being murdered but stays behind the desk to ignore it.

i credit him for how vocal he has been. it really does take a lot of guts to without provocation admit to being a part of one of the most disgusting events in history. i think it's admirable that he has been vocal against the holocaust-deniers movement. i think he has chosen to take this ugly part of his past and use it to become a better person.

in the film 'on the waterfront' charlie ends up being murdered by the mob for finally trying to atone. yeah it's a dramatic way to present the idea of justice and it's obviously not what i think should happen to groening. but he is guilty and the law is the law. judicial justice has to be executed, otherwise justice has no legitimacy.
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#24
My first thought was, "How do they have a specific number of people?"

Then I realized it was because of such good bookkeeping.

Also, yeah, he should go to jail. What the hell has he been doing this whole time? Hiding out in Argentina?
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#25
Quote by Baby Joel
i'm not the best at saying what i feel but i'll give it a shot

i understand that the holocaust is something i'll never understand. i get that i have no idea what i'd do if i were the junior ss officer. i get all that.

but he opted to join an organisation that was at its very base a truly evil racist bigoted organisation. there aren't words i can use to describe the type of awful that the ss supported. he personally witnessed the mass murder of families. he personally worked at the most infamous deathcamp in human history and tried to avoid the reality of that. he wasn't the person b you described. if anything he's charlie in 'on the waterfront'; the mob's accountant who knows people are being murdered but stays behind the desk to ignore it.

i credit him for how vocal he has been. it really does take a lot of guts to without provocation admit to being a part of one of the most disgusting events in history. i think it's admirable that he has been vocal against the holocaust-deniers movement. i think he has chosen to take this ugly part of his past and use it to become a better person.

in the film 'on the waterfront' charlie ends up being murdered by the mob for finally trying to atone. yeah it's a dramatic way to present the idea of justice and it's obviously not what i think should happen to groening. but he is guilty and the law is the law. judicial justice has to be executed, otherwise justice has no legitimacy.

Oh, he's certainly not Person-B at all. And yes, he could have opted to live life as a private citizen instead. You described it exactly: the reason people are silent in the face of atrocities is because any peep out of them will be the end of them as well. The idea of mobility or running away from these scenes (the only sensible answer when nothing can be done to physically kill the Beast) is sometimes not a reality for people.

It's sad on all sides. I'm no Nazi sympathizer, but I do understand that regardless of what uniform a person wore in history, they are all still humans capable of both viciousness and compassion. Usually compassion is never exercised.
#26
I love it. It sends a great message, and reminder to anyone--you do this and there ain't NO escape. NONE.
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#27
All we know is that he did not see it coming.
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#28
Quote by Carnivean
I love it. It sends a great message, and reminder to anyone--you do this and there ain't NO escape. NONE.

So... folks who witness horrible acts of police brutality via social media, and do nothing about it, should definitely be thrown in jail later in life simply because they knew what was going on?

Edit: also, "ain't NO escape" literally means that escape is an option.
Last edited by Zaphikh at Aug 3, 2017,
#29
I don't really know the extent of his responsibilities and lack of freedom in Auschwitz to judge him. If he had total freedom to leave his post and work somewhere else without any negative repercussion at all (e.g he was trusted by everybody and could have easily made up an excuse to leave), then he's much more responsible than if he just got the job at some point but was very restricted and basically couldn't leave (without being interrogated, tortured, get surveillance on him and his family, etc). Don't really know the nature of his experience there, and IMO that is necessary to make a moral judgement on his actions, and even start talking about "justice".

Just like I cba to read all that experience of his, if it was stated that he should go to jail I'm not really opposed (again, specially if I don't know much about it).
#30
Quote by Zaphikh
Edit: also, "ain't NO escape" literally means that escape is an option.

Grammar Nazi is the only acceptable Nazi.
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#31
So where is he going to be held? Reichers Island?

Quote by Baby Joel
in the film 'on the waterfront' charlie ends up being murdered by the mob for finally trying to atone.


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#33
Quote by theogonia777
So where is he going to be held?  Reichers Island?

Ooooooh. Not bad.
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#34
Quote by Carnivean
I love it. It sends a great message, and reminder to anyone--you do this and there ain't NO escape. NONE.
EVER
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#35
I don't like old people or Nazis so this is just 2 birds with 1 stone.
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#36
I definitely think he should have gone to jail (a long time ago)

But I think it's very easy to say what he and the group he associated with did, was wrong, 80- years into the future, with all the accumulated context and knowledge that provides. Like all I have to tell you is he was a Nazi who worked at Aushwitz and you immediately know what that means and how he should be treated.

I think it's a lot more difficult to recognise it as it happens, and to actually do something about it.

My point is not that he's somehow innocent, but that it's very difficult to show true independent moral courage and conviction, and to go against what your whole society and authority is doing. People should be aware of that when looking at the events happening today.
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Last edited by Gatecrasher53 at Aug 3, 2017,
#37
I mean, I get that he was a nazi, but he was basically an accountant does that really justify prison? Much less a prison sentence generations later just to make an example out of him?

I'm pretty sure he contributed in no way to the genocide happening there and what exactly was he supposed to do to stop anything at all? He probably just sat in an office all day doing math.


It feels like every time there is a case like this the person is less and less important but they act like the person had a vital role in the atrocities committed in nazi germany. Would not be surprised if next year they sentence the janitor to a couple years in prison for his part in the holocaust.
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#38
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At this point I think it's hardly a punishment as much as it is making an example out of him.

"Don't contribute to genocide! You got that buddy? Alright now, run along."
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#39
Quote by FireFromTheVoid
I mean, I get that he was a nazi, but he was basically an accountant does that really justify prison? Much less a prison sentence generations later just to make an example out of him?

I'm pretty sure he contributed in no way to the genocide happening there and what exactly was he supposed to do to stop anything at all? He probably just sat in an office all day doing math.


It feels like every time there is a case like this the person is less and less important but they act like the person had a vital role in the atrocities committed in nazi germany. Would not be surprised if next year they sentence the janitor to a couple years in prison for his part in the holocaust.

He only got 4 years, that's pretty light for being a part of one of the most evil events in the history of man. Also, what was he accounting for but the expenses of a facility setup to systematically murder people, I'd say he's done plenty to be convicted and punished. His age has nothing to do with it as long as the punishment doesn't affect his health, (because then it'd be a de facto death sentence)
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