#1
Acoustic guitar music is woefully absent from my vinyl record collection, and I'm having difficulty finding good ones.

What are y'alls favorites?

I would ideally like to find Pierre Bensusan's Intuite on vinyl, but I don't think it exists.

I'm currently looking very heavily at Antoine Dufour's latest release.
My God, it's full of stars!
#2
IMHO, I think it would be in your best interests to get away from vinyl, period. The stuff I think you're looking for, (if it could be found at at all), would be well recorded on CD, in most likely AAD format.

I realize the mystique and flat out snob appeal of records in this age, but again IMHO, it's just because recent CDs have been so drastically over-recorded and compressed, they've given digital sound reproduction a bad name.

I have CDs of people like Loreena McKennitt and Mary-Chapin Carpenter, which have superb sound, and have no desire to yield to the "snap, crackle, and pop", of vinyl records in hope of better sound.
#3
Suggesting that record listeners switch to digital is kind of insulting.

Capt'n, it's because for many people, records are fundamentally superior in dozens of ways. People like myself (I never made the change to CDs or other digital formats) know how to care for their record collection. Most of mine are 40-50 years old, none younger than 30... they are clean and don't make noises.
I worked in a high end audio shop when the CD was introduced. We had some of the best gear around and were eager to check it out, which we did a lot... I hated the sound of it. I resolved not to make the switch. Every few years after that I would check and listen again... all that did was confirm my decision. I have no way of clearly describing why I dislike it.

The point is, it's a choice for a meaningful reason... I don't like cantaloupe, and not even the most rigorous and well thought arguments will change the way it tastes to me.
Quote by reverb66
I'm pretty sure the Bible requires that you play through a tube amp in Texas.
#4
Quote by PlusPaul
Suggesting that record listeners switch to digital is kind of insulting.
First of all it wasn't intended to be insulting. But more importantly, I'm not exactly sure it's your place to "be insulted", since I wasn't talking to you in the first place. If Dreadnought is insulted by me having an opinion on the topic, he's more than welcome to address it with me himself.

Quote by PlusPaul
Capt'n, it's because for many people, records are fundamentally superior in dozens of ways. People like myself (I never made the change to CDs or other digital formats) know how to care for their record collection. Most of mine are 40-50 years old, none younger than 30... they are clean and don't make noises.
Records still wear out, that's an inescapable fact, whether they're clean or not.Vinyl still has a tragically low S/N ratio, and the compression that necessarily forces upon it.
Quote by PlusPaul
I worked in a high end audio shop when the CD was introduced. We had some of the best gear around and were eager to check it out, which we did a lot... I hated the sound of it. I resolved not to make the switch.
You know what, so did I, so don't try and condescend to me with the whole "vinyl is superior", paradigm./ snobbery / nonsense. I know it's a status thing to own a $10,000 tube amp, but they have no damping factor, and hence can't effectively control cone excursion on very large woofers. Then there's the whole harmonic distortion thing. I used to get customers walking in with a copy of, "Consumer Reports" tucked under their arm asking "what's the THD". Guess what, you like harmonic distortion, it's the inter modulation distortion that's offensive. BTW, "inter-modulation distortion" is the reason "power chords" had to be invented.

Quote by PlusPaul
Every few years after that I would check and listen again... all that did was confirm my decision. I have no way of clearly describing why I dislike it.
I'm just going to keep my speculation to myself on the reason why that is, I don't want to offend anybody.

Quote by PlusPaul
The point is, it's a choice for a meaningful reason... I don't like cantaloupe, and not even the most rigorous and well thought arguments will change the way it tastes to me.
And here again, I didn't ask you to change. I wasn't talking to you.

The simple fact is, given the probable age of the material Dreadnought is looking for, used my be the only viable source for it. Hence, you're likely to run into people who haven't been as spectacularly conscientious as yourself, and "snap crackle, and pop" could rapidly become a fact of life.

Of course, digital transfers may not be available for such material, thus you lose out on the "freezing time and wear function", that only digital allows.

I'm also aware that sound engineers didn't have a good grasp on transfer to digital when it first came out. A lot of the recordings were harsh and tinny. For example, the CD of Springsteen's "The River", was an ear piercing piece of shit.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 12, 2017,
#5
Dready, to answer your question, I simply haven't found (what I perceive to be) a good vinyl record of purely acoustic guitar music. I'll check with my colleague when I see him in September (he's been collecting since he was 10, his record collection is huge. To put it into perspective, his portable digital music library, which is a fraction of his overall library, comes in at 10,000 albums). If there's an acoustic record worth getting, he'll know about it.

On this side chain, I agree a lot with Cranky. Vinyl superiority is snobbery. But so is digital superiority. There are too many variables, with positives and criticisms of both sides. To that point, I've always subscribed to the idea of the Music First Audiophile. This term was only recently coined, but it's tenets have always been something I've agreed with:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/06/what-is-a-music-first-audiophile/

BTW, my experience is also Hi-Fi shop employment, but my current job is as a product specialist for a well respected speaker company.

P.S. Cranky, talking about damping factor, and as not to detail the thread further, I'm PMing you something you may be interested in.
#6
Quote by Captaincranky
IMHO, I think it would be in your best interests to get away from vinyl, period. The stuff I think you're looking for, (if it could be found at at all), would be well recorded on CD, in most likely AAD format.

I realize the mystique and flat out snob appeal of records in this age, but again IMHO, it's just because recent CDs have been so drastically over-recorded and compressed, they've given digital sound reproduction a bad name.

I have CDs of people like Loreena McKennitt and Mary-Chapin Carpenter, which have superb sound, and have no desire to yield to the "snap, crackle, and pop", of vinyl records in hope of better sound.

I listen to music both digitally and through only the dozen or so vinyl records that I have. Owning a vinyl record is an important thing for me, and I appreciate the size, weight, art, feel, and mechanics of the process. Like a good, well-aged book with good quality paper and clear print.

The difference in sound quality is either unnoticed or immaterial to me  

Back onto the topic, I'm going to be ordering that Antoine Dufour release later this week after payday  

I have a decent Segovia vinyl that has him accompanied by an orchestra, but I don't have any good record stores near me currently (I'd have to travel to Raleigh) to peruse some better classical guitar records.

This isn't supposed to digress into any sort of silly argument over whether or not digital or vinyl is superior. Nobody wins in those arguments 
My God, it's full of stars!
#7
Quote by Dreadnought
I listen to music both digitally and through only the dozen or so vinyl records that I have. Owning a vinyl record is an important thing for me, and I appreciate the size, weight, art, feel, and mechanics of the process. Like a good, well-aged book with good quality paper and clear print.

The difference in sound quality is either unnoticed or immaterial to me  
First of all, I wasn't suggesting CD for sheer sound quality. I was suggesting it from the standpoint of practicality, and as another 'guitarist'. If you want to 'collect vinyl', I don't take issue with that. So, I'll amend my suggestion to, "you should cop the CD version, (if available), with each and every vinyl LP you buy".

The stylus places thousands of pounds of pressure into the grooves of a record. And yes, that's even with a very expensive, light tracking cartridge. That causes the grooves to distort. The trouble is, the grooves don't return to their pre-stylus pass shapes, for perhaps as long as 24 hours. Which means, while you're listening to Segovia, and just happen to be holding your classical guitar, if you can't figure out what he's playing on the first pass, when you get up to 'play that little part you're having trouble figuring out' over, you'll ruin the record, if you don't wait a day to repeat it.. Plus, a record can be perfectly clean, and still be worn out.

Quote by Dreadnought
Back onto the topic, I'm going to be ordering that Antoine Dufour release later this week after payday  
What the heck is a record store? The reason they named "Amazon.com", 'Amazon.com', is because the Amazon rain forest contains something like 70% of the species on earth.

So, as much as I loathe Amazon, and the CEO it rode in on, if you're looking for rare (however recorded), music, your best place to start is online, at Amazon. I try to avoid dealing with them directly, but instead prefer to buy from the individual sellers in the marketplace. None of them have screwed me yet, and even without 'free shipping', they're generally cheaper than Amazon itself.

Quote by Dreadnought
I have a decent Segovia vinyl that has him accompanied by an orchestra, but I don't have any good record stores near me currently (I'd have to travel to Raleigh) to peruse some better classical guitar records.
Cough, cough, online: https://www.amazon.com/Andres-Segovia/e/B000APWOPE

Quote by Dreadnought
This isn't supposed to digress into any sort of silly argument over whether or not digital or vinyl is superior. Nobody wins in those arguments 
We are all victims of the time period of the music we want to listen to, and also the taste of the guy in the booth. He, (or she), is telling us how the music to which we listen is supposed to sound. Their taste is now our taste, and it's forced upon us. As far as time period of recording goes, I was listening the Jethro Tull's "Aqualung" while I was writing this post.. Martin Barre's 'heavy distorted power metal Les Paul", sounds like a f***ing kazoo, at least by modern standards. So now, the AAD conversion to CD hasn't corrected that, nor will it ever.

As far as winning an argument over digital versus vinyl, I'm pretty sure I could do better than draw with >95% of the population.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 13, 2017,
#9
Captaincranky

Not unlike much of what else you post, you have unreasonably sour and divisive things to say on this

My Antoine Dufour album shipped today, can't wait to get it
My God, it's full of stars!
#10
Quote by Dreadnought
Captaincranky ...[ ]...Not unlike much of what else you post, you have unreasonably sour and divisive things to say on this
Copyright holders in Great Britain went to court, and succeeded in getting "mixed tapes" declared illegal. The premise of the suit was the fact they don't want consumers to be able to change the format of music they have purchased, but want them required to repurchase the same material in a different format.. The trial judge just shook his head, and agreed that the, "government hadn't done enough research to dispute their claim that consumers changing musical formats, was costing the copyright holders massive amounts of money", and brought the gavel down in their favor.

Vinyl records are another attempt to force music lovers to re-buy the same source material they already have spent their hard earned money to procure in another format. In this case, the recording industry uses propaganda, which really just centers around people's nostalgia for simpler times.

Way back when, the ceremony of listening to a favorite band, (at least in my experience), involved, opening up a bottle of 'Blue Nun', rolling a couple of joints, lighting a few candles, dimming the lights, and throwing the record on a turntable. Those were happier times, and the recording industry's propaganda, sweetens the experience by alleging the superiority of analog recording methods. After all, how can you go wrong? As your finger nail slides down the cellophane wrapper opening the LP, 40 years of your age slips away.

So, what you claim is 'sour and divisive", I perceive as merely telling the unvarnished truth.

George Orwell explains it thus: "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear".

Quote by Dreadnought
My Antoine Dufour album shipped today, can't wait to get it
Enjoy! I also hope you're able to find other music you greatly enjoy as well.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 20, 2017,
#11
Captaincranky If I buy a new vinyl, I usually get it from Amazon, and they give you a free MP3 copy of the album with your purchase. Also some records even come with a download code in the sleeve. So there goes your re-buying argument. No one's forcing anything...those who like vinyl will buy vinyl, no matter what. It's is a niche these days...it's just an option for those who enjoy the sound of needle in groove. If we're talking old vinyl, you can get a TON of used records at record stores for very little money...I usually walk out with 3 or 4 records in hand, having spent less than $10, and that's how I got most of my collection. Your argument is the same as complaining when a band releases a deluxe version of an old album...if you want it, but it...if not, f*ck off.
#12
Quote by zat48
Captaincranky If I buy a new vinyl, I usually get it from Amazon, and they give you a free MP3 copy of the album with your purchase. Also some records even come with a download code in the sleeve. So there goes your re-buying argument. No one's forcing anything...those who like vinyl will buy vinyl, no matter what. It's is a niche these days...it's just an option for those who enjoy the sound of needle in groove.
Like I said, "ceremony". Besides,"the sound of a needle in the groove", isn't really supposed to be part of the music, now is it?

Quote by zat48
If we're talking old vinyl, you can get a TON of used records at record stores for very little money...I usually walk out with 3 or 4 records in hand, having spent less than $10, and that's how I got most of my collection.
My sense of irony is apparently more finely tuned than yours. The musically worst used records, will usually be in the best physical condition. Uh,from not being played. That should be self explanatory, but I felt I had to make sure.

Quote by zat48
Your argument is the same as complaining when a band releases a deluxe version of an old album...if you want it, but it...if not, f*ck off.
Well, they give out free MP3 downloads with CDs as well. With CD's they're almost useless, of course, but they do take up the slack while you're waiting for hard copy to arrive. If you're using a CD, you can just pop it in a computer, and rip it to whatever format you choose. I always use ".wma lossless, but to each his own..

If I'm using vinyl, I'm fortunate enough to have a free standing CD recorder, so I can just plug my turntable into a standard AV receiver, and bypass buying a "USB turntable", or another audio interface of any kind.

As for "deluxe", "sooper dooper", "the collection from your favorite band you simply can't live without", a lot of the "new, previously unreleased material", is very often garbage, the band can't wait t6o get out the door, as most of their "top 10 hit CDs", are selling for five bucks a pop, and they need the money, along with the boost in public awareness their aging egos desperately need.

And BTW, did you know "the father of modern psychology", John B. Watson, left the field to pursue a career in advertising? Seems there was more money in the latter field, and he likely didn't have to deal with quite as many crazies.

In any case, the best feats of mind control are performed when the subject doesn't know they're being manipulated.

Here's the Wiki page on "propaganda techniques' : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_techniques Why not put the guitar down, and see if you can identify the tricks of social manipulation routinely being performed on you? (BTW, "force" is a very broad term, encompassing both mental and physical aspects).
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 21, 2017,
#14
zat48 Go play "Wonderwall" for the umpteenth time, and leave your assessment of my mental health out of the discussion.
#15
Captaincranky You are delusional. Why are you so anal about people buying vinyls? It doesn't affect your life, yet you go out of your way to harass people who enjoy vinyls using retarded excuses as to why one shouldn't buy them. Let it go, you're not gaining anything out of it and people certainly won't stop using/buying that format because of you. How about you go practice instead of whining?
Ayy there
#17
Quote by metalhead983877
Captaincranky You are delusional. Why are you so anal about people buying vinyls? It doesn't affect your life, yet you go out of your way to harass people who enjoy vinyls using retarded excuses as to why one shouldn't buy them. Let it go, you're not gaining anything out of it and people certainly won't stop using/buying that format because of you. How about you go practice instead of whining?
Well, my being "delusional" has absolutely nothing to do with it, since I doubt you're qualified to diagnose whether I am or not, ('delusional').

I said all I had to say in posts #7 & #10. I'll refer you to my post #4, which explains I wasn't talking to the responder in the first place.

The same principle attaches to your post I'm responding to now. I wasn't talking to you, yet my name appears appears in your post.

See if you can wrap your head around this, vinyl is fine for a collector, but impractical as a workaday medium. I'ts too fragile, and these days too expensive as well.

I get it, ,some of you think you're better than me because you buy vinyl records. Guess what? I have a collection of vinyl records myself, a Shure M-95-ED, (their V-15 type 3 is discontinued), and a Technics SL-1401 quartz lock turnable. Not the best granted, but not a "USB Saturday night special" either.

And FWIW, I don't give a flying booger WTF you buy. I just state the pros and cons, which you don't seem to be able to deal with.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 21, 2017,
#18
Captaincranky 
Quote by Captaincranky
And FWIW, I don't give a flying booger WTF you buy. I just state the pros and cons, which you don't seem to be able to deal with.

OP asks for an acoustic guitar vinyl and your reply is literally " get away from vinyl", of course you give a fuck about what he buys you hypocrite. The thing is, no one here is saying that they are superior for buying vinyls, you're the only one here trying to act all high and mighty about how you know "vinyl is an inferior format" and they apparently are "nothing but a money grab".

Also, about the "I'm not talking to you" bit, this is a public forum. What you write here, anyone will be able to read and react to. If you want to talk to someone in private, send them a PM. You go out of your way to look like an imbecile, you're going to get called out on it.
Ayy there
#19
metalhead983877 Gee, my bad, I didn't realize someone as self important as you would be listening.
FWIW, I've been dealing with vinyl, (and most likely bakelite), since the "needles" that went into phonographs actually were metal needles. The medium was shit then, and it's shit now.

If you don't think this is worded as a suggestion, "I think it would be in your best interests to get away from vinyl, period.", then you need to learn how to read.

But yeah, you're right, this is a public forum, so you can call me all the imbeciles you want. I'm sure it says that in the terms of service. Would you like me to have a mod look it up for you?

Now why don't you toddle along and bang your head into a wall to the tune of a "Metallica" album.

EDIT:
Quote by metalhead983877
Captaincranky ...[ ]....OP asks for an acoustic guitar vinyl and your reply is literally " get away from vinyl", of course you give a fuck about what he buys you hypocrite. .
But one on one, I tried to help him find the type of material he was looking for regardless of the source medium. He did say, "my album shipped today". Read what you're able into that.

Unlike you OTOH, who hasn't contributed to the thread's topic, and just stopped by to run your mouth at me.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 21, 2017,
#20
Captaincranky Oh look at you, trying to take the high road while you're the one who came to shit on someone's thread. Also I find it's quite funny that you try to attack people on their musical tastes like it has anything to do with this thread. A thread which, by the way, your only contribution has been "stop using vinyls because I don't like it".
Ayy there
#21
metalhead983877 And yet, you still haven't added anything to the original topic, nor do you understand English.

Don't you have someone in the Electric guitar forum you can troll?
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 21, 2017,
#22
Now now fellas, this town is definitely big enough for the both of you.

My God, it's full of stars!
#24
Quote by Captaincranky
Dreadnought It would appear you might have been better off, starting this thread in the pit...


It can work out fine here, if people behave like adults. Your confrontational and argumentative approach set this all off.

My Antoine Dufour album came today, and one of the things that's cool about it is that it was sent from him personally. It's also fantastic, as his playing always is
My God, it's full of stars!
#25
Quote by Dreadnought
It can work out fine here, if people behave like adults. Your confrontational and argumentative approach set this all off.

My Antoine Dufour album came today, and one of the things that's cool about it is that it was sent from him personally. It's also fantastic, as his playing always is
I surfed the web looking to provide myself with more insight into the current 'vinyl resurgence phenomenon'. The funny thing is, all I did was suffer through seemingly endless blather, of regurgitated material I learned intimately, 40 years ago. For example, did you know you could transfer a vinyl record onto cassette tape? And 15 minutes of my life went down the toilet on that one. I went through 6 or 7 cassette recorders during the vinyl years, including one of the famous Nakamichi decks. All I derived from a couple of hours of surfing, is, "we like vinyl.....uh......because.

What fascinates me is this, how much more 20 year olds know about the characteristics of the very media I grew up with, and, ....was exposed to for 60 years. (I'm giving 10 as a start date).

So now you have, oh let's call them "steel and vinyl snowflakes", intruding into the thread, yet not offering any assistance to YOU, the topic starter.

But yeah, you're a moderator, and it's all my fault.

I kind of would like the 20 year old metalhead to come back, and argue some more. Since this isn't "The Pit", at least you'd stand a much better chance of scoring some IQ points for a 1,000 hits on the thread.

In any event, please accept my apologies, along with a solemn promise to never intrude on any topic you might start in the future. <( Ya gotta admit, my 'confrontation' is a lot more articulate and low key than most)..

Food for thought: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snowflake%20millennial

EDI: Here's the story on "mix tapes", being made illegal in Great Britain: http://www.businessinsider.com/using-itunes-to-make-a-mixtape-cd-became-illegal-in-the-uk-this-summer-and-no-one-noticed-2015-8

Here's the entire transcript of the proceedings: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2015/1723.html#para1

I now realize how 'delusional' I am, when I had thought that copyright holders could possibly be influencing or promoting the sale of vinyl records.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 24, 2017,
#26
my favorite? Leo Kottke 6&12 string  Guitar.
In general? The entire Takoma catalog.

I have a real soft spot for American Primitive.
#27
I wouldn't buy vinyl myself but I think it's cool that they are making a comeback of sorts. Growing up in the 70's, there's some sort of old school charm hearing that needle scratching in the groove. It's all good.