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#41
Quote by cdgraves
No method or system is good if it's used as a shortcut to avoid actually learning what scales and chords are made of.


There are cases where it is inconsequential to know what the notes are though and in such a case shortcuts are very important. Like if I give a guitar player a bouzouki and give him tablature and tell him to play it on a recording. In such a case it takes far more time and effort to teach him the notes on the fretboard than it does to just give him a shortcut so he can be done in ten minutes rather than taking days or weeks to memorize skills that won't benefit him in the long run.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#42
Quote by theogonia777
There are cases where it is inconsequential to know what the notes are though and in such a case shortcuts are very important. Like if I give a guitar player a bouzouki and give him tablature and tell him to play it on a recording. In such a case it takes far more time and effort to teach him the notes on the fretboard than it does to just give him a shortcut so he can be done in ten minutes rather than taking days or weeks to memorize skills that won't benefit him in the long run.


I would consider this an extremely exceptional circumstance so far removed from the subject at hand as not to be worth mentioning. Plus, "method or system" doesn't really apply to your hypothetical situation.

Let me restate in lawyer proof fashion:For purposes of learning guitar with the goal of attaining musical proficiency it is best to avoid such shortcuts.

Why is it I keep having to qualify my advice with "If you don't want to sound like shit..."? I feel like it should go without saying that advice is intended to help people not sound like shit. Nobody is asking for help to continue sucking at guitar.
Last edited by cdgraves at Aug 30, 2017,
#43
Quote by cdgraves
I would consider this an extremely exceptional circumstance so far removed from the subject at hand as not to be worth mentioning. Plus, "method or system" doesn't really apply to your hypothetical situation.

Let me restate in lawyer proof fashion:For purposes of learning guitar with the goal of attaining musical proficiency it is best to avoid such shortcuts.

Why is it I keep having to qualify my advice with "If you don't want to sound like shit..."? I feel like it should go without saying that advice is intended to help people not sound like shit. Nobody is asking for help to continue sucking at guitar.


All of your posts imply that music exists in a one-size-fits-all vacuum with no real world variables and everything should be done the way you do it because every has the same goals and experiences as you do. There are more things out there than playing classic rock covers throw a clean amp in wedding bands in Colorado, you know.

You wouldn't believe some of the stuff that happens out there.

Besides, it's a thread about negativity and you always seem very negative when you post. Try cheering up and smiling sometime and then record some music using nothing but samples made from nothing but a hamster, a metal bowl full of water, a cardboard box, and a hammer. Music is more fun when you open your mind and realize that what notes you play is like less than 10% of music.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#45
theogonia777
Try cheering up and smiling sometime and then record some music using nothing but samples made from nothing but a hamster, a metal bowl full of water, a cardboard box, and a hammer


I'm reminded of the Doggie Chew Toy Guitar Invention Exchange from Mystery Science Theater 3000. Sadly, could not find video of it.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#46
Quote by dannyalcatraz
theogonia777


I'm reminded of the Doggie Chew Toy Guitar Invention Exchange from Mystery Science Theater 3000. Sadly, could not find video of it.


But you know the sound I'm talking about. You take a metal bowl, fill it with water maybe between a quarter and halfway, then tap the side of the bowl will gently tilting it. It's a beautifully whimsical sound. Like if a single wind chime and a timpani had an underwater baby. Not even guitarists can be negative when they hear that sound.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#48
NSpen1

Not quite. It makes me think of the sound of being underwater in Ocarina of Time. Like the boots clanking when you sink to the bottom or when you are underwater and hit something with your sword.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#49
theogonia777

Where does the hamster fit in?



NO.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#50
If you get a hamster running at a consistent speed, there is a unique rhythmic inconsistency to the sound of a hamster wheel that makes for the most useful break beat.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#51
Quote by theogonia777
All of your posts imply that music exists in a one-size-fits-all vacuum with no real world variables and everything should be done the way you do it because every has the same goals and experiences as you do.  There are more things out there than playing classic rock covers throw a clean amp in wedding bands in Colorado, you know.  

You wouldn't believe some of the stuff that happens out there.

Besides, it's a thread about negativity and you always seem very negative when you post.  Try cheering up and smiling sometime and then record some music using nothing but samples made from nothing but a hamster, a metal bowl full of water, a cardboard box, and a hammer.  Music is more fun when you open your mind and realize that what notes you play is like less than 10% of music.

At what point did it become bad advice to have some idea you're doing in music? If you're going to keep needlessly rebutting my posts with counterexamples unrelated to the point, it's kind of hard not to appear disagreeable. The topic is about how people get all hung up on learning things one way, so I think it's entirely appropriate to note that the point of learning anything is to learn it and not just play patterns by rote. Getting obsessed with 3nps vs CAGED vs whatever is missing the forest for the trees.
#52
Cut it out and discuss in chat if you want this reopened. This animosity is shameful.
#53
Quote by cdgraves
The topic is about how people get all hung up on learning things one way, so I think it's entirely appropriate to note that the point of learning anything is to learn it and not just play patterns by rote. Getting obsessed with 3nps vs CAGED vs whatever is missing the forest for the trees.


Well that's nice, but what good does it do to know the notes if your hands can't play them at a decent level of proficiency? Practicing scale shapes and sequencing patterns ad nauseum allows your hands to actually play the notes. And I should point out that once again, you're unable to look at the bigger picture and realize that there are times when, believe it or not, the actual nite you play don't matter at all as long as you are in the right key. And guess what? That music just happens to be the music that the target audience for the "learn my 'secret' and not theirs" guys are aiming at.

Not all music is jazz where you play chord tones. A lot of shred is simply playing fast for the sake of playing fast. Nobody carefully scrutinizes any notes or really cares about individual notes so long as, like I said before, they are in key. Or not if key doesn't even matter. Something, something, speed as a texture, something, something, frantic, something, something, continual blur of notes. In such cases it's all about running through scales at 17 and a half notes per second and the only thing that matters is that you know your scale shapes.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#54
Please tell me why exactly it was necessary to close this thread.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
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